Final Campaign Battle

[Dousedinoil]

Hey all,

I have been running a 5e campaign for about a year now and we are close to approaching the final battle. I expect my group (party of 5) will be level 11 by the time they fight the final boss, an ancient red dragon known as Nalavara. Now I know this sounds crazy as a CR24 enemy but I think it is fitting based on a few things.

1. First off this is the final battle. I don't expect all the PC's to survive.
2. Secondly, their are two NPCS both level 11 to help in the final battle. This would essentially make it a 7v1. At least one of these NPCS needs to be killed as per the story.
3. I've handed out a stupid amount of magic items.
4. This is a veteran group of players that min-max their characters.
5. The party will be at full health and spells going into the fight with plenty of time to buff and prep for the final fight.

I always wanted to run a game where the final boss was an ancient red dragon. Does this sound like complete insanity or can I make this work? I was thinking of giving all the PCS resistance from fire or decreasing the number of hitpoints the dragon (as it isn't at full power).

Thoughts?

[Tiadoppler]

Details would help a lot.

What sorts of crazy magical weapons+armor does your party have?
How optimized are your party's builds (and what are they)?
Will your players know that they can nova on this encounter?
Do your player play smart and tactically?

Challenge Rating generally isn't that accurate. If a deadly encounter for 7 level 11s is around 40,000 xp (and deadly just means chance of PC death, and you're expected to be able to beat multiple deadly encounters per day), a single 62,0000 xp encounter might be fine, even without giving the PCs any boosts.

[Dousedinoil]

Details would help a lot.

What sorts of crazy magical weapons+armor does your party have?
How optimized are your party's builds (and what are they)?
Will your players know that they can nova on this encounter?
Do your player play smart and tactically?

Challenge Rating generally isn't that accurate. If a deadly encounter for 7 level 11s is around 40,000 xp (and deadly just means chance of PC death, and you're expected to be able to beat multiple deadly encounters per day), a single 62,0000 xp encounter might be fine, even without giving the PCs any boosts.

Pretty much everyone in the party has a magical weapon. Here are some of the items I have handed out:

https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/238339005266111432/
https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/238339005265432593/
https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/238339005265283823/
https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/238339005266111422/
https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/238339005266111418/
https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/238339005265096252/
https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/238339005266111436/
https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/238339005266111440/
https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/238339005265553797/
https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/238339005265349100/

All the characters are optimized and played tactically. My group loves fighting on a grid and coming up with all sorts of crazy things.

They are a shapeshifting druid, bard, warlock, rogue and ranger. The two NPCS will act as meatshields/tanks with high AC and 115HP each.

They will know that it is the last fight and go all in.

[MagneticKitty]

Once one of the pcs gets a successful control spell off the dragon will have a bad time.
The problem with a single big bad who doesn't have cohorts is it is severely behind in action economy. Legendary actions help, but I'd say it will be close. I'd go with a lesser dragon (you don't have to tell them it's adult and not ancient, you can still have him be old) and give him a kobold, half dragon, or dragonborn army of sorts.

[Dousedinoil]

Once one of the pcs gets a successful control spell off the dragon will have a bad time.
The problem with a single big bad who doesn't have cohorts is it is severely behind in action economy. Legendary actions help, but I'd say it will be close. I'd go with a lesser dragon (you don't have to tell them it's adult and not ancient, you can still have him be old) and give him a kobold, half dragon, or dragonborn army of sorts.

Her army it outside fighting the purple dragon knights. The group will have just eliminated her most trusted advisor and it is up to them (and the two NPCS) to stop her. I couldn't find a stat block I liked between adult and ancient. Besides, I feel like calling it an ancient dragon but reskinning an adult would be cheating the players of their accomplishment.

[Hobbo Jim]

This is a pretty shakey thing, in my book. While bounded accuracy helps, power still is more like an exponential curve rather than a linear line.

For Prep - How big of an issue will it being able to fly be/where are they going to fight it? Does the dragon also use magic items or "just" itself?
They are level 11 so hopefully they have heroes' Feast would go a long way.

For a basic idea, let's look at the first couple round that the dragon will take. I'll assume that there is a reason for the dragon not to stay flying, only for semi-quick movements. Maybe it's in a smallish cave that it find sentimental

The big thing: Fire Breath. Averages 91 damage. How many of the party could withstand that, plus maybe a wing buffet? At a DC24, not many people are going to succeed this throw at level 11. Plus, Red dragons get a cone attack, the strongest of the breaths. Some get a line, which is substantially weaker vs adventurers.

Frightful presence negated by feast, then come the attacks. Fighter w/ 20 con has 121 health before buffs. Dragon is unlikely to miss, so on to damage. Assuming no resistances, 1 round of combat = 2d10+8d6+30, avg 69 damage. So long as the right people are tanking this damage, that's actually not too bad.

Party gets to attack. Assuming stats of 20 and a +3 weapon (since you've been generous), 4+5+3= 11, each attack ~50% per roll to hit.

Party casts spell, DC at around 17, maybe slightly higher if given a magic item. Dragon shouldn't struggle with these too much, but has legendary resistance for those save/suck spells. Given how many actions they get, all resistances should be saved for save/suck, as no 5th level spells will be crazy damage on Dragon, but losing a round to 7 people would be very bad.

Overall, a min maxed group of 5 +2 NPCs would probably be able to do 550 damage in 4 rounds or so with decent rolls, so it kind of all comes down to whether or not the dragon's breath takes them all out. As always, a lot of this will come down to how smartly you play the dragon. Large parties can always take down much more powerful creatures if they're dumb. I think it's doable, but there's also the possibility that one bad roll will wipe the entire party. Hope they all have fire resist!

[Hobbo Jim]

Oh, and how your going down/being healed back up mechanics work. Level 11 has some nice AoE heals by then, so if the dragon is playing wackamole it's almost sure to lose, and it probably won't live long enough if it works to ensure a person is dead before moving on to the next target. Killing a person would take a full action AFTER they're down

[MagneticKitty]

Her army it outside fighting the purple dragon knights. The group will have just eliminated her most trusted advisor and it is up to them (and the two NPCS) to stop her. I couldn't find a stat block I liked between adult and ancient. Besides, I feel like calling it an ancient dragon but reskinning an adult would be cheating the players of their accomplishment.

They don't need to know the monster's name. Red dragon or bob the vile (I forget the name) is sufficient.
I think smaller with a personal guard is better

[Zuras]

5 11th level PCs should definitely be able to take down an Ancient Red Dragon. If they go in with full Long Rest resources, and the dragon isn’t in a position to play hit-and-run, the dragon is toast.

If the dragon has plenty of room to fly around, then you just have a a puzzle scenario where the PCs win if they can knock the dragon out of the air or have sufficient ranged attacks. There’s a chance of TPK, but it’s in the 10% range-lots of blown saving throws and lucky breath weapon recharges.

[firelistener]

If the druid has Investiture of Flame/Ice by then, they should have a much easier time tanking the fire breath while shapeshifted. At least someone in there, perhaps multiple, will have Protection From Energy. I imagine the bard will have Cure Mass Wounds too. If not, I suggest throwing some potions of fire resistance and a scroll of Cure Mass Wounds to the party so they can survive the breath attack. That lucky egg and ring of the phoenix will definitely be great boons as well, in case people just really blow their saving throws or the dragon gets some crits. With the two NPCs eating a lot of the melee damage, I think the party should absolutely win.

[Dousedinoil]

Thanks all. I think with the right prep and a few buffs it will be a challenging but memorable final fight. There is just something about defeating an ancient red dragon that makes this epic.