Looking for advice on some variations of my sorlock build...

[samcifer]

So my dm is letting me change characters and I know I want to play a level 11 (total) sorlock for Eldritch Blasting as well as some other forms of blasting and a few utility spells as well as taking the Ritual Caster feat for even more spells for utility use (from the Wizard spell list for Detect Magic, Identify, Comprehend Languages, Alarm, Unseen Servant and maybe even Leomund's Tiny Hut).

The problem comes when I try to decide on how to built the character. The sorc levels would be Divine Soul for a wider range of spells to choose from as well as Hexblade for the Hexblade Curse's increased crit range and additional damage... Then I considered having Action Surge as well...

With AS, I'd start as Sorc for the con save prof and go to sorc 5 (taking Quicken and Empowered for my MMs), taking Elven Accuracy at lv. 4. Then I'd go to Warlock 4 for a second ASI and take Ritual Caster (taking Pact of the Blade at lv. 3 for Improved Pact Weapon for higher accuracy to hit). Then for the last 2 levels, I could go Fighter 2 for the AS.

Why go for AS? In my group, we have house-ruled that AS grants an additional bonus action, so I could fire (at total level 11) up to 12 EBs in a turn. With HC active and max Charisma and a +1 weapon, that would be 1d10 + 10 damage up to 12 times. I could only do it once per rest, true, but I love the idea of a machinegun-barrage kind of turn. I know, I know, there's way better things to do in a turn, but I just really love the idea of firing off as many EBs in a turn as possible.

The Alternatives would be to gone one of 2 other routes:

Sorc 8 (Even Accuracy and Ritual Casting at 4 and 8) with Quickened and Empowered, then go to Hexblade 3 and Take Pact of the Sword as well as Agonizing Blast and Improved Pact Weapon which would allow for up to 6 EBs per turn and have access to Wall of Fire at sorc 7 as well as Greater Invisibility (which would pair greatly with EB + Elven Accuracy)...

Or...

Sorc 9 / War 2, which would lose me a point of accuracy to hit, but would grant me access to level 5 spells for Animate Objects which when used with ball-bearings, would allow me to hit up to 13 times in one turn (combined with EB) with lesser damage and possibly repeat that once before falling back to a max of 6 hits per turn from EB once the bearings have all gotten their weaker damaging hits.


Again, I know that rolling tons of attacks isn't what playing an effective caster is all about, but I just love the idea of getting many spell attacks during a single turn.

Any helpful advice appreciated... :)

[Mitsu]

Even with your houserules about AS it's pointless to further delay Sorcerer progression. Faster level 7th, 8th and 9th spells are worth more than AS. Your DPR and Nova is already great and once you have Wish you can Wish your Sim and have sim fire same EB combo.

The best option is to just go 2 Levels Hexblade with Agonizing Blast + either Devil's Sight or Repealing Blast and then 18 levels of Divine Soul Sorcerer for Cleric + Sorc spells. First meta magic: Quicken + Twin.

That is all pretty much.

For a race- best imo is Variant Human or Half-Elf.

2 Levels of Fighter + 2 levels of Hexblade is 4 levels delay in your sorcerer progression and 4 levels behind ASI. 2/18 gives you asi on level 6 and 10. Then 14 and 18. If you take 2 levels of fighter your totally delay your ASI by another 2 levels, with last one moving from 18 to 20. That is a waste of progression.

You delay not only your spell progression (Sorlock is caster build so that is bad) but also maxing your CHA and taking feats.

So in short- totally not worth it.

If you really want to be a King of Blasting, just go Nuclear Wizard build 1 Hexblade/17 Evocation Wizard/2 Fighter for Action Surge and blast almost everything bar Tarrasque (due to his plating) with your Magic Missles nuclear damage. Mind you are still here a 9th level caster thanks to 17 levels.

With Sorlock 2/18 if you go for AS you don't get 9th level spells. Which like exchanging nuclear bomb for 120mm cannon....

9th level spell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Action Surge.

[samcifer]

Even with your houserules about AS it's pointless to further delay Sorcerer progression. Faster level 7th, 8th and 9th spells are worth more than AS. Your DPR and Nova is already great and once you have Wish you can Wish your Sim and have sim fire same EB combo.

The best option is to just go 2 Levels Hexblade with Agonizing Blast + either Devil's Sight or Repealing Blast and then 18 levels of Divine Soul Sorcerer for Cleric + Sorc spells. First meta magic: Quicken + Twin.

That is all pretty much.

For a race- best imo is Variant Human or Half-Elf.

2 Levels of Fighter + 2 levels of Hexblade is 4 levels delay in your sorcerer progression and 4 levels behind ASI. 2/18 gives you asi on level 6 and 10. Then 14 and 18. If you take 2 levels of fighter your totally delay your ASI by another 2 levels, with last one moving from 18 to 20. That is a waste of progression.

You delay not only your spell progression (Sorlock is caster build so that is bad) but also maxing your CHA and taking feats.

So in short- totally not worth it.

If you really want to be a King of Blasting, just go Nuclear Wizard build 1 Hexblade/17 Evocation Wizard/2 Fighter for Action Surge and blast almost everything bar Tarrasque (due to his plating) with your Magic Missles nuclear damage. Mind you are still here a 9th level caster thanks to 17 levels.

With Sorlock 2/18 if you go for AS you don't get 9th level spells. Which like exchanging nuclear bomb for 120mm cannon....

9th level spell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Action Surge.

Oop, sorry, forgot to add the race and stats. Half Elf with stat block of 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, and 10 before racial bonuses. 20 CHA, 16 CON, 16 DEX (+1 from race and +1 from Elven Accuracy), 14 CON, 13 WIS (+1 from racial), and 10 each for STR and INT. Starting equipment would be +1 Ring of Protection, Half-Plate and a Shield.

Also, Our campaigns tend to never go into high levels. The highest we've ever gone was to 13 when starting off at lv. 8 and lv. 8 from lv. 1. Waiting for lv. 7+ spells isn't really worth going for because of that, hence me multi-classing at lower levels for more features and abilities.

[Mitsu]

Oop, sorry, forgot to add the race and stats. Half Elf with stat block of 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, and 10 before racial bonuses. 20 CHA, 16 CON, 16 DEX (+1 from race and +1 from Elven Accuracy), 14 CON, 13 WIS (+1 from racial), and 10 each for STR and INT. Starting equipment would be +1 Ring of Protection, Half-Plate and a Shield.

Also, Our campaigns tend to never go into high levels. The highest we've ever gone was to 13 when starting off at lv. 8 and lv. 8 from lv. 1. Waiting for lv. 7+ spells isn't really worth going for because of that, hence me multi-classing at lower levels for more features and abilities.

Doesn't change anything for me. If yuo want to be caster- spell progression > action surge/non-caster dips. Always. Even faster level 3 is better than Action Surge. Twinning Haste or casting counter spell or casting fireball or spirit guardians will be more impactful than yet another EB.

Sorlock doesn't need action surge. Period.

You can take it if you like, but if you look for what is better- not taking that fighter dips and just go 2 Hexblade/X Divine Soul or Shadow Sorc.

If you want to take Fighter dip as caster 2 Fighter/18 Wizard is great build for that for example because they don't need Hexblade dips (apart from Nuclear Wizard build for Evocation MM) and you get to cast 2 spells in one turn to make some sick combos.

[samcifer]

Doesn't change anything for me. If yuo want to be caster- spell progression > action surge/non-caster dips. Always. Even faster level 3 is better than Action Surge. Twinning Haste or casting counter spell or casting fireball or spirit guardians will be more impactful than yet another EB.

Sorlock doesn't need action surge. Period.

You can take it if you like, but if you look for what is better- not taking that fighter dips and just go 2 Hexblade/X Divine Soul or Shadow Sorc.

If you want to take Fighter dip as caster 2 Fighter/18 Wizard is great build for that for example because they don't need Hexblade dips (apart from Nuclear Wizard build for Evocation MM) and you get to cast 2 levels in one turn to make some sick combos.

Actually, according to the rules as written, you can only cast a leveled spell once per turn, even with AS. My dm would likely support that ruling, so no 2 fireballs/etc. in a single turn period. :(

[Mitsu]

Actually, according to the rules as written, you can only cast a leveled spell once per turn, even with AS. My dm would likely support that ruling, so no 2 fireballs/etc. in a single turn period. :(

Incorrect. That is only when you cast BONUS ACTION spell. Then you can't use action for another spell, only cantrip.

Nothing prevents in rules from using second spell in second ACTION. And AS gives second ACTION.

So double spells are perfect RAW legit with AS.

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/04/17/action-surge-spell-3/

[samcifer]

Incorrect. That is only when you cast BONUS ACTION spell. Then you can't use action for another spell, only cantrip.

Nothing prevents in rules from using second spell in second ACTION. And AS gives second ACTION.

So double spells are perfect RAW legit with AS.

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/04/17/action-surge-spell-3/

Huh, I remember reading originally that only one levelled spell was allowed per turn, even with AS. Did they change it at some point? Gah! Can't remember where I read it now, but I think it had been in the phb. I might be mistaken, tho.

[Mitsu]

Huh, I remember reading originally that only one levelled spell was allowed per turn, even with AS. Did they change it at some point? Gah! Can't remember where I read it now, but I think it had been in the phb. I might be mistaken, tho.

They didn't change anything, you just read it wrong :). Many people do actually, as they many times miss that this rule is for bonus action, not action.

[Fryy]

Why go for AS? In my group, we have house-ruled that AS grants an additional bonus action, so I could fire (at total level 11) up to 12 EBs in a turn. With HC active and max Charisma and a +1 weapon, that would be 1d10 + 10 damage up to 12 times.

Just a question... Are you combining Improved Pact Weapon with Eldritch Blast? You seem to be talking about both at the same time. Eldritch Blast is a spell attack and doesn't interact with weapon bonus to hit and damage.

Also, I would second the recommendation for a 2 War / 9 Sor build for all the reasons given.

[Keravath]

A couple of comments ...

1) Pact of the blade and improved pact weapon have NOTHING to do with eldritch blast which is a spell attack. Pact of the blade and magical weapons ONLY affect those weapon attacks.

2) As stated, the rule in the players handbook is that IF you cast a bonus action spell THEN any other spells on the turn must be cantrips. With action surge you can cast two leveled spells IF you do not cast a bonus action spell of any kind. If you DO cast a bonus action spell then any spells cast using cast a spell action during that turn must be cantrips. This doesn't stop your idea of massed eldritch blasts though which are all cantrips.

3) Hexblade allows you to wear medium armor and a shield which is the best way to increase your AC.

4) The best level distribution is probably 9 sorcerer/2 hexblade warlock. Since you are taking ritual casting, pact of the tome is somewhat less useful, pact of the blade isn't that useful and pact of the chain can be fun but also probably not worth delaying 5th level spells. I don't think it is worthwhile adding in 2 levels of fighter for action surge. Although it may not be relevant, 2 levels of fighter will prevent the sorcerer from getting 9th level spells which are useful if you will ever go that far.

As for feats, ritual casting sounds good.

[samcifer]

Just a question... Are you combining Improved Pact Weapon with Eldritch Blast? You seem to be talking about both at the same time. Eldritch Blast is a spell attack and doesn't interact with weapon bonus to hit and damage.

Also, I would second the recommendation for a 2 War / 9 Sor build for all the reasons given.

IPW makes a weapon +1 as well as makes it usable as an implement for casting, so wouldn't the +1 be added to hit as well as to damage? That's my understanding of how it works.

Also, as far as pacts go, yeah, my dm hates familiars and actively kills them every chance he gets, so that's a dead mechanic whenever he's the dm, tome would be redundant and blade is taken only for the extra +1 to hit and damage from IPW.

[Mitsu]

IPW makes a weapon +1 as well as makes it usable as an implement for casting, so wouldn't the +1 be added to hit as well as to damage? That's my understanding of how it works.

Also, as far as pacts go, yeah, my dm hates familiars and actively kills them every chance he gets, so that's a dead mechanic whenever he's the dm, tome would be redundant and blade is taken only for the extra +1 to hit and damage from IPW.

No, it only works for melee attack (or range if you summoned pact range weapon) with a pact weapon. It has nothing to do with casting a spell as spells are SPELL ATTACK, either range or melee, but they are not WEAPON attacks.

[samcifer]

No, it only works for melee attack (or range if you summoned pact range weapon) with a pact weapon. It has nothing to do with casting a spell as spells are SPELL ATTACK, either range or melee, but they are not WEAPON attacks.

*groans. Damn... Well, I guess s9/w2 for now then and maybe still go w3 later for lv. 2 spell slots. Perhaps I can get a +1 Rod of the Pact Keeper as my starting +1 item.

[Keravath]

*groans. Damn... Well, I guess s9/w2 for now then and maybe still go w3 later for lv. 2 spell slots. Perhaps I can get a +1 Rod of the Pact Keeper as my starting +1 item.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Rod of the Pact Keep or Wand of the War Mage only add to the attack rolls for spells, not to the damage. They aren't the same as a +1 weapon which adds to both. Also, keep in mind that Rod of the Pact Keeper or Wand of the War Mage are both usable by a sorlock so you can pick whichever benefit would work better for you.

[samcifer]

One thing to keep in mind is that the Rod of the Pact Keep or Wand of the War Mage only add to the attack rolls for spells, not to the damage. They aren't the same as a +1 weapon which adds to both. Also, keep in mind that Rod of the Pact Keeper or Wand of the War Mage are both usable by a sorlock so you can pick whichever benefit would work better for you.

So maybe a wand of war mage would be better because it affects all spell attack rolls and my choices for warlock spells wouldn't be ones needing spell save rolls?

[Fryy]

*groans. Damn... Well, I guess s9/w2 for now then and maybe still go w3 later for lv. 2 spell slots. Perhaps I can get a +1 Rod of the Pact Keeper as my starting +1 item.

Yeah, War 2 vs. War 3 is a tough call as it is so dependent on how often you can get short rests. Our group typically gets 1 SR per LR. So, War 3 usually only nets me 1 more sorcery point per day vs. War 2... 2 more from War minus one less from Sorc. Plus, War 3 gives me one further level delays in Sorc progression.

So, I would wait on War 3 until a norm emerges for your group on Short Rest frequency... and that you can get your group (DM included) to agree to generally continue that frequency before you commit to War 3.

[samcifer]

Yeah, War 2 vs. War 3 is a tough call as it is so dependent on how often you can get short rests. Our group typically gets 1 SR per LR. So, War 3 usually only nets me 1 more sorcery point per day vs. War 2... 2 more from War minus one less from Sorc. Plus, War 3 gives me one further level delays in Sorc progression.

So, I would wait on War 3 until a norm emerges for your group on Short Rest frequency... and that you can get your group (DM included) to agree to generally continue that frequency before you commit to War 3.

We're trending at 2 encounters per long rest with a short rest squeezed in between them.

Also, in my other campaign I'm playing a firbolg light cleric and created a dome-shaped wall of Fire around a pair of cyclops. They took 2 ticks of damage, then the dome was useless so I decided to drop it. Based off of that experience, for my sorlock I've taken the EI that lets you push a target hit with an EVB up to 10 feet so I can potentially knock foes 'back into the oven' as I've taken to calling it.

[Ashaman]

One thing to keep in mind is that the Rod of the Pact Keep or Wand of the War Mage only add to the attack rolls for spells, not to the damage. They aren't the same as a +1 weapon which adds to both. Also, keep in mind that Rod of the Pact Keeper or Wand of the War Mage are both usable by a sorlock so you can pick whichever benefit would work better for you.
The Rod of the Pact Keeper only affects your Warlock spells, Sorcerer spells gain no benefit. So take a look at which class spells you'll be using more for attacks, and choose appropriately.

[samcifer]

The Rod of the Pact Keeper only affects your Warlock spells, Sorcerer spells gain no benefit. So take a look at which class spells you'll be using more for attacks, and choose appropriately.

For attacking, I'll primarily use EB for attack rolls and damage with spells like Magic Missile (enhanced with Hexblade Curse), Fireball, Lightning Bolt and Wall of Fire as backup spells as well as for variety and mob-countering. EB will be my only warlock attack spell. All others will be sorc spells/cantrips.

[Dork_Forge]

For attacking, I'll primarily use EB for attack rolls and damage with spells like Magic Missile (enhanced with Hexblade Curse), Fireball, Lightning Bolt and Wall of Fire as backup spells as well as for variety and mob-countering. EB will be my only warlock attack spell. All others will be sorc spells/cantrips.

It's worth noting that Rod of the Pact keeper gives you an extra Warlock slot per day as well, if you're planning to mostly be an EB machine when AOE isn't appropriate, then ROTP seems a better choice than WOTWM.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

You can still dual wield Rod of The Pact Keeper and Wand of The War Mage if you want.

+2 to warlock spell attacks, +1 to warlock DC, +1 to Sorcerer spell attacks and ignoring half cover for Sorcerer and warlock.

I never take Warlock spells with a DC on my sorcelocks so I take Wand of the War Mage. Sort rest with font of magic give you double the Rod of The Pact Keeper 1 warlock spell for a long rest.
Ignoring half cover can be useful if you use cover at you table.

I think Rod of the Pact Keeper with a shield is better.

I think you may want to take Crossbow Expert in cast you see yourself get into melee a lot.

You may consider Shadow Sorcerer for the level 6 feature and psedo devil sight.
Again, it depends on the spells you want to use and your play style.

[samcifer]

You can still dual wield Rod of The Pact Keeper and Wand of The War Mage if you want.

+2 to warlock spell attacks, +1 to warlock DC, +1 to Sorcerer spell attacks and ignoring half cover for Sorcerer and warlock.

I never take Warlock spells with a DC on my sorcelocks so I take Wand of the War Mage. Sort rest with font of magic give you double the Rod of The Pact Keeper 1 warlock spell for a long rest.
Ignoring half cover can be useful if you use cover at you table.

I think Rod of the Pact Keeper with a shield is better.

I think you may want to take Crossbow Expert in cast you see yourself get into melee a lot.

You may consider Shadow Sorcerer for the level 6 feature and psedo devil sight.
Again, it depends on the spells you want to use and your play style.

I'd considered taking Spell Sniper, but I have Misty Step, so I can get out of range without provoking AOps, so I'll worry about that later. I also considered Shadow Sorc, but the god Tyr plays a big part in this campaign and I was thinking of being a Divine Soul sorc who made a warlock pact with Tyr for more power in exchange for serving him. Also, Darkness isn't really ally-friendly, so I'd prefer to avoid hindering other members of my party even with the selfish 'Everyone in the world's a jerk and they annoy me so much' kind of attitude my character will have for a personality.

[Bobthewizard]

You could consider going Sorcerer 8/ Hexblade 3 with Pact of the Tome. You give up 5th level spells but 3 levels of Hexblade turns your short rest spell slots into 2nd level slots for more sorcery points recovered on a short rest, so more opportunities to quicken your Eldritch Blast. You'll still have 2 ASI at level 11 for elven accuracy and CHA.

[samcifer]

You could consider going Sorcerer 8/ Hexblade 3 with Pact of the Tome. You give up 5th level spells but 3 levels of Hexblade turns your short rest spell slots into 2nd level slots for more sorcery points recovered on a short rest, so more opportunities to quicken your Eldritch Blast. You'll still have 2 ASI at level 11 for elven accuracy and CHA.

CHA is already at max, so I'd likely take a feat. I have 16 dex, so Medium Armor Master would up my AC by a point, I could go Tough for more HP or I could go Crossbow Expert. Even if I stay with the sorc 9/ war 2, I'd likely go war 3 at lv. 12 as there's a good number of useful lv. 2 spells for a war as well as having lv. 2 slots for more sorc pts. Tome might be worth it with the ritual casting EI, freeing up that feat for a different one...

That actually sounds pretty good and I could go Sorc 9 at lv. 12 instead for Animate Objects and have more versatility on spellcasting for now. It would likely only be 2 sessions or so before we level up again since we're using the milestone system.



***groans***


So I've been thinking over possible builds on the way to work and remembering that there's already a hexblade (with no multiclassing) in our party, maybe a different warlock patron would work better: Celestial. This would grant me more healing options to ease up the burden on our artificer life cleric in the group and if I went to warlock 6, I could get a damage boost to fire and radiant attacks (only one target of it, yes, but extra damage is always nice). With that and Pact of the Tome, I could use my second ASI for Medium Armor prof to increase my AC and still have all the extra ritual spells I want thanks to the improved tome EI. I'd also have around 13 different cantrips, so I can take all those fun utility ones like mold earth and shape water as well as mage hand, message, mending and still have the attack cantrips as well as guidance, thaumaturgy and spare the dying via divine soul.

I'd only have level 5 spells, but in 2 more levels I'd get Greater Invisibility at sorc 7 which admittedly would really only be to grant advantage when using EB.

Still, going to at least lv. 3 with celestial warlock I would have access to some better spells as a lock and have 4d6 worth of bonus action healing abd still get lv. 4 spells via going to sorc 7 or 8, the final level being a toss-up between sorc 8 or lock 4 for the Medium Armor prof. feat.

Just some ideas...

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I'd considered taking Spell Sniper, but I have Misty Step, so I can get out of range without provoking AOps, so I'll worry about that later. I also considered Shadow Sorc, but the god Tyr plays a big part in this campaign and I was thinking of being a Divine Soul sorc who made a warlock pact with Tyr for more power in exchange for serving him. Also, Darkness isn't really ally-friendly, so I'd prefer to avoid hindering other members of my party even with the selfish 'Everyone in the world's a jerk and they annoy me so much' kind of attitude my character will have for a personality.

Darkness is ally friendly just like fog cloud is ally friendly.
You don't cast them on you allies, you use it to block enemies and make a safe zone to your allies.

It is like saying that fireball is not ally friendly because is damage allies.

Anyway, that soud like a good reason to play Divine Soul.
I made the same thing (Divine Soul and hexblade serving Tyr, I made it to a pact with a weapon that serves Tyr in his plane)

Just pay attention that Spell Sniper gives you extra range and ignoring 3/4 cover, not the ability to attack with an enemy 5 ft from you. And using a 2 level spell everytime someone gets to you is a great resource drain.
I don't play in your table and don't know how tactical do you play so it may not be a big problem as I see it.


Edit:

Why other hexblade is a problem?
Are you going to fight over who is getting the souls of your enemies?

[samcifer]

Darkness is ally friendly just like fog cloud is ally friendly.
You don't cast them on you allies, you use it to block enemies and make a safe zone to your allies.

It is like saying that fireball is not ally friendly because is damage allies.

Anyway, that soud like a good reason to play Divine Soul.
I made the same thing (Divine Soul and hexblade serving Tyr, I made it to a pact with a weapon that serves Tyr in his plane)

Just pay attention that Spell Sniper gives you extra range and ignoring 3/4 cover, not the ability to attack with an enemy 5 ft from you. And using a 2 level spell everytime someone gets to you is a great resource drain.
I don't play in your table and don't know how tactical do you play so it may not be a big problem as I see it.

Yeah, I was thinking of Crossbow expert when I typed Spell Sniper. My bad.

As far as the warlock patron, I admit that the only real reasons I was thinking of taking HB were for medium armor and shields right away as well as the Hexblade Curse mostly for the damage. The lv. 6 Celestial feature would let me do extra damage as well to more than one foe (although only 1 target per spell gets the extra damage, but I can still get extra damage if the damaged foe dies. The bonus action healing would be very useful. The foes we're facing tend to have high accuracy to hit and do a lot of damage, so being able to have the equivalent of Healing Word without using up a spell slot would be very helpful as several of us have ended up making death saves several times in this campaign. Also, the spells for Celestial are much more appealing to me than the ones for Hexblade and the loss of Charisma for melee attacks wouldn't likely come up much for me as I plan on attacking from range as much as possible. The armor can be fixed by using my 2nd asi/feat for gaining medium armor and shields and taking pact of the tome with the improved tome EI for access to ritual spells and casting.

[Bobthewizard]

***groans***


So I've been thinking over possible builds on the way to work and remembering that there's already a hexblade (with no multiclassing) in our party, maybe a different warlock patron would work better: Celestial.

A pure hexblade and a sorlock with a hexblade dip are two totally different characters. The hexblade will be using invocations to buff their melee abilities and will have pact magic. You'll just be using it for the armor, hexes and short rest spell slots, but will primarily be a sorcerer. I don't think they'll step on each other's toes.

If you like Celestial though, play that.

[samcifer]

Well we're playing a homebrew campaign based off of the Dresden Files book series with a very high combat difficulty, so extra healing and radiant dmg would really help us all out.

If I went that route and assuming that we'll likely only go up 4 more levels before the end of the campaign, I need to make a choice...

Sorc 7 / war 4 or sorc 8 / war 3 which would give me lv 4 spells, or go sorc 5 / war 6 for the lv 6 celestial extra dmg and 4 lvl 3 spell slots with lv 3 spells as my strongest ones, but 4 lv 3 spell slots, half of which is get back on a short rest. The spells I'd miss out on being greater invisibility and wall of fire. War 4 / sorc 7 would mean I'd only need 2 more levels for bonus dmg at war 6 and still at least have greater invisibility.

Not sure which route to go in that case. Since there's likely to be foes vulnerable to radiant dmg, that's be +10 damage per spell to a single trgt. On the other hand, is that extra dmg worth delaying getting lvl 4 spells? Not sure which way to go on this.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

In my opinion there are only 3 options for sorxlocks.
2 lock x sorc
3 lock x sorc
3 sorce x lock

Or if you want to go full block of iron
6 pal 1 hex 9 sorc and any cha caster to end with.
You can feel it come online in levels 7 and 10.


Hexblade is best for you as it gives you proficiency with stuff. You don't need his spells.
You have enough spells you want to know with all the Sorcerer and cleric lists.
Sorcerer biggest weakness is the small list of spell known and the Warlock patron just make the list bigger, not gives you spell known.

[samcifer]

In my opinion there are only 3 options for sorxlocks.
2 lock x sorc
3 lock x sorc
3 sorce x lock

Or if you want to go full block of iron
6 pal 1 hex 9 sorc and any cha caster to end with.
You can feel it come online in levels 7 and 10.


Hexblade is best for you as it gives you proficiency with stuff. You don't need his spells.
You have enough spells you want to know with all the Sorcerer and cleric lists.
Sorcerer biggest weakness is the small list of spell known and the Warlock patron just make the list bigger, not gives you spell known.

True. I really like being able to use swords and such as a just in case, and the prof. bonus damage to a single target is really appealing even though it eats a bonus action to set up and only works on 1 foe per battle. As far as spells go, Shield is all but mandatory, Hex is okay, and Misty Step and either Mirror Image or Shatter would be okay. I'd still go Pact of the Tome with Book of Ancient Secrets for ritual casting. If I went that route I could use the second ASI/feat for Toughness or War Caster, I suppose (really only for the ability to use a cantrip when granted an AOp as we don't follow the somatic rules on spellcasting).

Looking over the arrangement of spell slots and spells known, I think going sorc 8 / war 3 would be better than s7 / w4 as I'd get a second lv 4 spell slot.

Another argument in favor of HB over Celestial is the increased crit range. I plan on often going invisible via greater invisibility and with advantage from that as well as Elven accuracy and firing off 6 EBs per turn, that'd be 18 chances per turn to get a crit.

However, is being able to crit on a 19 with an EB really worth the effort? It'd be 6d10 + 30 (cha mod) + 24 (prof. bonus dmg from HC) + 6 (+1 Rod of the Pact Keeper) worth of damage in a turn without any crits. The extra 1d10 or so doesn't really seem worth the effort in light of it only working against a single target and needing an extra turn to set everything up for that kind of dpr.

Celestial would mean less damage, but with some overlapping spell choices, It would free up some sorc spell choices for other things. Also, the bonus action healing would really be a greater help to the party as a whole because of the vast amounts of damage we keep taking in fights. I could revive downed players when the life cleric can't, for example, and I could use RotPK to make spells like Hold Person harder to resist. If I HP foes, I'd still get triple attack rolls against them as an alternative to going invisible. I could also have 12 cantrips instead of a measly 10 if I went HB :D One of which would be Shillelagh, which would counter the loss of damage and accuracy by not going HB.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Man, that is tour choice.

The extra crit range is just a nice thing for you, the proficiency bonus to damage is the deal.

The Rod of The Pact Keeper only gives you +1 to attacks, not damage.
Same for wand of the war mage.

The only reason to take Rod of The Pact Keeper if if you are not going to take spell attack Sorcerer spells and warlock spells with saves.

[samcifer]

Man, that is tour choice.

The extra crit range is just a nice thing for you, the proficiency bonus to damage is the deal.

The Rod of The Pact Keeper only gives you +1 to attacks, not damage.
Same for wand of the war mage.

The only reason to take Rod of The Pact Keeper if if you are not going to take spell attack Sorcerer spells and warlock spells with saves.

Yeah, if I go HB instead of Celestial I'd only lose 2 cantrips (one of which is Light, which is no big loss as most of the party has darkvision and those without have access to torches) and would need to take Healing Word to replace the lost Healing Light Celestial feature (and would have to use spell slots, but would heal for more per casting anyways with HW). I wouldn't need Shillelagh, so that's free up a cantrip slot for something else, and it'd free up an ASI/feat, which would likely go to Medium Armor Master so I don't take a penalty on being sneaky while invisible in half-plate as well as getting an extra point of AC.

I'd get that higher crit range and up to 28 extra damage per round (via 6 EBS and a melee AOp attack) against a single target. The only drawbacks are needing to use a bonus action to cast it and I could only use it on 1 foe per battle since I'll never get to HB 14 when you gain the ability to move it to someone else.

Also, I wonder if I'd be stepping on the toes of our full-class HB character in addition to our wild magic sorcerer (again a single-classed character) but with the sorc, the player likes to be erratic with him such as running right up to a foe and casting fireball recklessly, but maybe he'll be more cautious now that he's pregnant with 8 clones of himself via a homebrewed wild magic chart the dm found online to use. (also, that character's player tends to work nights and usually misses the first half of every session we play).

I admit to liking having the extra damage and increased crit range, plus the ability resets after a short rest whereas the Celestial's Healing Light would only be 4d6 with no spellcasting mod added to the healing received and only resets after a long rest, but Healing Word would pick up the slack there with stronger healing at the cost of a spell slot each time. Also, since I'd be focusing on dpr over utility, it would make sense to have more damage per hit vs. getting 2 extra cantrips (one of which would be all but useless with our group), access to Flaming Sphere and a method of healing that can be easily replaced.

As for now, maybe I can get by with RotPK until I can get my hands on a +1 weapon and a Ruby of the War Mage to bond to it.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Why will you ever want a weapon when you have the rod or the wand?
Your cantrips do more and unless you DM homeruled that the weapon gives bonus to spellcasting it will just be a downgrade.

The only weapon I know that also gives bonus to casting is the Staff of Power.

If your party pay no attention to placement and damage preventing you will have little use of healing as it only worth in on a caster that concentrate on a spell or someone rolling death saves.

I will not look on ways to use a reaction as shield, absorb elements and feather fall almost always better. But if you do want a reaction attack take the war caster feat, if you hit the enemy just got 30 ft away from you.

The stealth problem can be solved with silence and pass without trace.

[samcifer]

Why will you ever want a weapon when you have the rod or the wand?
Your cantrips do more and unless you DM homeruled that the weapon gives bonus to spellcasting it will just be a downgrade.

The only weapon I know that also gives bonus to casting is the Staff of Power.

If your party pay no attention to placement and damage preventing you will have little use of healing as it only worth in on a caster that concentrate on a spell or someone rolling death saves.

I will not look on ways to use a reaction as shield, absorb elements and feather fall almost always better. But if you do want a reaction attack take the war caster feat, if you hit the enemy just got 30 ft away from you.

The stealth problem can be solved with silence and pass without trace.

Well as we tend to end up with at least one pc having to make death saves, so if it's my turn before the life cleric's turn comes, I can use Healing Word to save the dying ally and let the cleric be the one to heal them more to stave off death more thoroughly. As for wanting that extra +1 to damage, I admit that it's a quirk of mine on hating odd numbers and adding +10 to a damage roll is easier to do than adding a +9 (+5 Cha & +4 prof bonus at lv. 11).

As for Feather fall, most fights and non-combat encounters have always been on ground level. There's only ever been 2 instances in as many years where Feather Fall might have been helpful. One was where an ally was knocked so high into the air during a battle that he took damage when he fell and the other was when we had to climb down a cliff to reach some gorgons in the valley below. Neither encounter HAD to have Feather Fall to survive, so it's far too limited a spell for me to ever want to take on anyone other than a Wizard who would have enough room on their list of known spells.

As for Absorb Elements, my dms tend to avoid using caster villains. I've faced only one mage in the 2 years I've played with this group, so AE and Counterspell are spells with too little usability to consider taking. I'm better off with the Shield spell for that.

As far as Silence goes, again, it has too little usability and this one is based off of a recent experience where I tried to use it for stealth. We were about to attack a pair of cyclops in a cave who were eating and chatting 80 ft. away. I suggested we try sneaking up on them and there was no place to hide, so I tried laying down a zone of silence right next to them. The dm began describing how one was talking to the other, but there was no sound and I corrected him that the zone was NEXT to them, not over them. I figured we could stealth into the zone of silence, then attack.,.. But 2 of the party were in heavy armor and failed their stealth rolls and it ended up a standard charge in ad attack when they heard us approach long before we reached the zone of silence and it was a wasted effort as well as a wasted spell slot.

In my group, creative uses of spellcasting in battle tend to rarely work out, hence me preferring simple attack spells that I don't have to argue with the dm over.

We can't even have familiars because that DM hates them kills them every chance he gets. In the one campaign I tried having one for my wizard, my owl was attacked by an eagle the instant he tried to fly up to scout the area, he was killed instantly in battle before he got a single turn to act because the dm specifically targeted him first and then after I revived him and tried to pet him gently as we sat in a tavern, the dm ruled that I petted him too hard and broke his neck. After that I gave up on ever trying to use a familiar with that dm and other players in our group have told me of similar experiences with that dm vs familiars.

I wish they'd put out more spells as well for more variety. There's still too few spells in this game for my taste.

But no, Med. armor Master would be better for me. An extra pt. of AC and a much more reliable way to avoid penalties while sneaking around, esp. while invisible via Greater Invisibility.

Update: After reflection on how the dm tends to play monsters during encounters, I'm thinking that maybe going Crossbow Expert instead would be better. If I'm going to be mainly focusing on using EB, I might as well be ready for the inevitable swarming that's likely to occur rather often.