3.5 Who is the King of Thieves?

[Trandir]

As the title suggest: what is the best class/build to become the king/leader of thieves?


Edit
Bonus: Who is the best thief?
The best setup to steal a person or from a person, household, without magic.
Bonus: Who is the best thief?
The best setup to steal a person or from a person, household, with magic.

[AnimeTheCat]

Probably either a beguiler or a bard. Good skills and skill points, and magical support to back them up.

[daremetoidareyo]

Shadowcaster.

Get the web expansion from cityscape. Increase your far hand fundamental. Get that sleight of hand feat from city of stormwrack. Rob everyone from a distance. Gotta get sleight of hand on your skill list from a feat or a dip. Grab a huitzel familiar (races of dragon magic) for +3.

[Thurbane]

Probably Factotum, or Beguiler. Both "thief" better than the Rogue.

...or this guy:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/01/61/7d/01617dbebd89cddd403735489d2d501b.jpg

[StevenC21]

Cleric.

Persistent Time Stop.

[Vizzerdrix]

Cleric.

Persistent Time Stop.

A kender cleric. :smallbiggrin:

[Telonius]

Depends on how big you're thinking. For lifting an object off of a person, a Rogue with the Master Pickpocket thief, Skill Mastery, and a scroll of Guidance of the Avatar would be pretty far up there. Stealing a lover? Bard or Beguiler. Stealing a person's identity, you're probably looking at a Psion or some kind of Changeling. Loot a province? Aristocrat. Steal a whole kingdom? Could be anything, depending on how you do it. Steal magic from the gods themselves? Ur-Priest.

[Maat Mons]

You'll obviously want Knock, some form of teleportation, and Invisibility (if not the Improved version). I'd also argue for Shrink Item, to steal the big stuff.

[Saintheart]

Optimised Bard, +50 Diplomacy check. He'll steal your heart. :smallcool:

[ben-zayb]

A multiclass Warlock / Marshal / Rogue with Blend into Darkness, Darkness, and Motivate Dexterity.

Though definitely not a Spellthief, which does not have Sleight of Hand as a class skill.

[Vizzerdrix]

Optimised Bard, +50 Diplomacy check. He'll steal your heart. :smallcool:

Vivsector bard. So he can steal your heart twice.

[Malphegor]

Wikipedia:


King of Thieves may refer to:

The head thief of a thieves' guild
King of Thieves (2004 film), a German film directed by Ivan Fíla and starring Lazar Ristovski
King of Thieves (2018 film), a British film produced by Working Title Films
"The King of Thieves", a 1995 Hercules: The Legendary Journeys episode
"The King of Thieves", a 1969 episode of It Takes a Thief
King of the Thieves (a.k.a. Errol Flynn), 1989 rock music album by The Dogs D'Amour
"King of Thieves", 1983 pop rock song on the album Punch the Clock by Elvis Costello and the Attractions
The King of Thieves, 2008 mystery novel by Michael Jecks
King of Thieves (video game), a 2015 a video game released by ZeptoLab
Fictional characters
Autolycus (played by Bruce Campbell), the self-proclaimed King of Thieves in the Hercules: The Legendary Journeys and Xena: Warrior Princess television series
King of Thieves, sorcerer in the comic and animated series Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Ryo Bakura (a.k.a. Bakura, King of Thieves), in the anime and manga Yu-Gi-Oh!
Ganondorf, in The Legend of Zelda video game series
George Cooper, in the 1983 fantasy novel Alanna: The First Adventure by Tamora Pierce
The Jackal, in the 2003 young adult fantasy novel The Oracle by Catherine Fisher
Jonathan Wild, in the 2005–6 The Phantom story "Jonathan Wild: King of Thieves"
Wul-Takim, in the 1903 children's fantasy novel The Enchanted Island of Yew by L. Frank Baum
See also
All pages with titles beginning with King of Thieves
All pages with titles containing King of Thieves
Aladdin and the King of Thieves, a 1996 Disney direct-to-video film
"Brum and the King of Thieves", a 2001 episode of the children's television series Brum
Sherlock Holmes Versus The King of Thieves, Arsène Lupin is the thief king
Prince of Thieves (disambiguation)
King (disambiguation)
Thief (disambiguation)


So, probably Guild Thief prc from Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting would work.

take Leadership and Favoured in Guild to qualify for Guildmaster. You now get +2 to associated skills...

But honestly, being the leader of an organisation is a hassle. 8 hours admin work a week? You didn't become a thief to be a clerk! A pittance of time is still your time wasted on wages and spreadsheets and loot/loss tables and pivot tables... Bah!

Shadow Thief of Amn from Player's Guide to Faerun probably works with the above. Boosts your leadership at least.

Basically, be a really solid Rogue, get Leadership, buy or steal a base, bam, you can call yourself king of thieves.

Anyway now I have to watch Brum and the King of Thieves because Brum is the best thing to come out of British television. Imagine if Chitty Chitty Bang Bang had eyes and went on adventures and couldn't fly, just drive.

[Shocksrivers]

I think the King of Thieves is not necessarily the best thieve, just the king of a lot of them. So definitely Leadership indeed, and I + Bard, for fluff with some levels rogue I think.

However, if you are looking for the best rogue, it is a different story :)

[Eldariel]

Let's see, (Cloistered) Cleric, Beguiler, Unseen Seer (Wizard) and Bard are indeed all pretty good at it. Who's the best, well, probably the Cleric in the long run though the Wizard can replicate almost all Cleric tricks too. But all of them can be Gods of Thieves.

[Andezzar]

You'll obviously want Knock, some form of teleportation, and Invisibility (if not the Improved version). I'd also argue for Shrink Item, to steal the big stuff.That can easily be achieved by a wizard, as always.

[tiercel]

...or this guy:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/01/61/7d/01617dbebd89cddd403735489d2d501b.jpg

/thread

Seriously, if there’s a better answer than Bruce Campbell, it’s a dirty, dirty lie.

[Asmotherion]

Cleric.

Persistent Time Stop.

i see your Cleric and raise you an incantatrix. :P

As with everything else an optimised caster outshines everyone else who's not a caster.

For stealing: invisibility (greater) (optionally persisted). Secret Chest (and/or any of the multiple Bag of Holding/Portable Hole variants) to put the loot in. Persistant (or persisted silent) image of the object stolen so they won't realise it's missing 'till you're potentially on the other side of the globe.

With +40 on hide when imobile (+20 when moving) and using circumstance bonuses... the DC to even be aware you're there can effectively become unbeatable. if extra paranoid add in a Silance spell and get a fly speed (probably overland flyight) so you won't leave footsteps. invisible spell shenanigans if your DM includes a wizard with a permanent See invisibility/Arcane Sight everywere you go.

[Zaq]

/thread

Seriously, if there’s a better answer than Bruce Campbell, it’s a dirty, dirty lie.

I see your Bruce Campbell and raise you:


https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/carmensandiego/images/2/23/RRRRR.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121201194503

Could your “Bruce” steal Mount Rushmore? The Eiffel Tower? The Coliseum of Rome? All in flamboyant scarlet? No? That’s what I thought.

[White Blade]

Beguiler 6/Rainbow Favored Servant 10/Divine Oracle 4 /s (but also seriously)
Factotum means you can double up on both INT and DEX for all your skills, pick up Knock, Mage Hand, dimension door, and so forth as well as using inspiration to sub in for less common skills.

[Mr Adventurer]

i see your Cleric and raise you an incantatrix. :P

As with everything else an optimised caster outshines everyone else who's not a caster.

For stealing: invisibility (greater) (optionally persisted). Secret Chest (and/or any of the multiple Bag of Holding/Portable Hole variants) to put the loot in. Persistant (or persisted silent) image of the object stolen so they won't realise it's missing 'till you're potentially on the other side of the globe.

With +40 on hide when imobile (+20 when moving) and using circumstance bonuses... the DC to even be aware you're there can effectively become unbeatable. if extra paranoid add in a Silance spell and get a fly speed (probably overland flyight) so you won't leave footsteps. invisible spell shenanigans if your DM includes a wizard with a permanent See invisibility/Arcane Sight everywere you go.

Silent image isn't a valid subject for Persistent Spell.

Silence isn't a Sorcerer/wizard spell. Without it, it's DC 10 Listen to hear "An unarmored person walking at a slow
pace (15 ft./round) trying not to make any noise".

Overland Flight only gives you Average manoeuvrability so you can't hover and need to keep on moving.

I don't know how Invisible Spell feat is supposed to stop people knowing something is up - I know an invisible fog cloud or the like can help you stay hidden on the battlefield if enemies have See Invisibility etc. but it's hardly going to stop the alarm being raised if someone suddenly sees an invisible fog cloud in their bank vault.

I'm not saying spellcasters aren't the best at everything - obviously they are - I'm just saying it's not always as straightforward as you are saying and that spells have their own limitations.

[Maat Mons]

Superior Invisibility has a built-in Silence effect, so the Wizard is good on that front.

And wouldn't Arcane Sight constitute "information gathering by divination spells?" If so, Mind Blank foils that.

[stack]

Take you favorite of the above, add Vecna-blooded. You just stole all record of yourself.

[tiercel]

I see your Bruce Campbell and raise you:


https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/carmensandiego/images/2/23/RRRRR.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121201194503

Could your “Bruce” steal Mount Rushmore? The Eiffel Tower? The Coliseum of Rome? All in flamboyant scarlet? No? That’s what I thought.


Does he need to, if he just deliberately lets someone else do it....

...and then steals her heart?


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e4/b5/5d/e4b55d108dbf0ccb49b8abc067cb7d06.jpg

[Asmotherion]

Silent image isn't a valid subject for Persistent Spell.

Silence isn't a Sorcerer/wizard spell. Without it, it's DC 10 Listen to hear "An unarmored person walking at a slow
pace (15 ft./round) trying not to make any noise".

Overland Flight only gives you Average manoeuvrability so you can't hover and need to keep on moving.

I don't know how Invisible Spell feat is supposed to stop people knowing something is up - I know an invisible fog cloud or the like can help you stay hidden on the battlefield if enemies have See Invisibility etc. but it's hardly going to stop the alarm being raised if someone suddenly sees an invisible fog cloud in their bank vault.

I'm not saying spellcasters aren't the best at everything - obviously they are - I'm just saying it's not always as straightforward as you are saying and that spells have their own limitations.

-You're probably right. Didn't analyse just made a fast calculation. Permanent image then.

-Same for silence. though i believe there must be some Wizard Alternative or UMD a wand of Silence.

-The main reason i mention OF is to avoid leaving footsteps (that can be used to pinpoint your location or otherwise notify about your presance.) i'm also positive that even non-hovering flight is harder to hear than footsteps (minus an aircraft). Potentially a good circumstance bonus to your move silently roll.

-i personally prefear invisible darkness for this. bonus if you're stealing a dungeon with no particular lighting. Worst case scenario contigiency a teleport in case you're detected (any creature (other than party members) within x feet is aware of my presence cast teleport).