New character- Jade Phoenix Mage opinions on usage?

[Lorddenorstrus]

So our 3-4 ish month something hell if I remember. Ended a little early, DM expected us to go defense when the big bad sent most of their resources after us and our base. We instead went full offense, teleport in crush face. So, uh we won really early? lol I don't think he expected us, to go scry and die when our keep and all our stored valuables were under seige and some of our allies (NPC allies) were being held up and unable to help. To be fair, we'd never used the tactic before and were semi greedy most of the campaign. It was my idea, I figured best opportunity. Anyway he had no ideas yet for that "world" or those characters to continue yet. So we're doing something else in the mean time. Start a new one, new characters. He said starting level 7-9 range hadn't decided. He told us to expect this one to start off fairly combat heavy and us to level to 11-13 range possibly ending near 15-18 ish. We pretty much always play gestalt mostly just for the fun?

So, I was looking at creating a caster for our group. I know one guy is trying to make monk work with something. I'm not sure what he plans to tack on with it. Other player (we only have me +2 atm sadly) Is looking at trying to make a Dervish. So I started looking at PrCs I've never gotten to try out but thought were interesting. I was stumbling around and remembered the Jade Pheonix mage. My thought was Wizard / Factotum 3 (int to saves and crap very good utility) + Warblade 3 at 7 hit up JPM. Weave Wizard levels in on the 2 dead JPM levels on the other side. Maybe just continue Warblade on the +1 arcane casting levels for it?

Just looking for opinions on how to best make use of JPM. I've done some reading and some suggest Crusader, I just finished playing one (Crusader/Warlock+Cleric into the Lock/Cleric Prc) so I think I'd rather hold off from using it again.

[Mike Miller]

Do you want to be more of a caster or more of a martial? The answer to that changes your JPM build. Also, will it be Gestalt? Usually Gestalt builds are written with 2 slashes between the classes. Theurge classes, such as JPM, are not allowed in Gestalt without DM approval. Is the DM ok with that sort of Gestalt build?

[Lorddenorstrus]

Do you want to be more of a caster or more of a martial? The answer to that changes your JPM build. Also, will it be Gestalt? Usually Gestalt builds are written with 2 slashes between the classes. Theurge classes, such as JPM, are not allowed in Gestalt without DM approval. Is the DM ok with that sort of Gestalt build?

I used Eldritch Disciple last game. I don't think he minds so long as I'm not snapping reality in half with every spell in the game. JPM is rather tame compared to possibilities out there. And yes it's gestalt.

I was thinking this Wizard//Warblade 1-3
Wizard // Factotum 4-6
Then Continue WB I guess and JPMs maneuvers become bonus ones known / readied on top of the WBs standard progression. Dunno that was as far as I got thinking about it. Wasn't really sure where to take the build. JPM seems to be focused on using martial effects to boost spells. Or sacrifice spells for damage to weapon strikes. I was wondering if my Chassis was even good for going into a JPM build mostly. Never messed with the class.

[Particle_Man]

If you can do gestalt do you need prestige classes? Warblade on one side and Beguiller on the other gives you physical combat, good skills, and a nice spell selection (usable in light armour) from Level 1 to 20. I imagine you can optimize further but that might be gilding the lily.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I used Eldritch Disciple last game. I don't think he minds so long as I'm not snapping reality in half with every spell in the game. JPM is rather tame compared to possibilities out there. And yes it's gestalt.

I was thinking this Wizard//Warblade 1-3
Wizard // Factotum 4-6
Then Continue WB I guess and JPMs maneuvers become bonus ones known / readied on top of the WBs standard progression. Dunno that was as far as I got thinking about it. Wasn't really sure where to take the build. JPM seems to be focused on using martial effects to boost spells. Or sacrifice spells for damage to weapon strikes. I was wondering if my Chassis was even good for going into a JPM build mostly. Never messed with the class.Swap some of the warblade and factotum. You want your first level to be factotum so you get the x4 skill points, and you want your latest levels to be warblade for the higher level maneuvers.

You may consider being a changeling and take the changeling wizard racial substitution levels, from Races of Eberron. Having a morphic familiar is amazing, especially if you take Improved Familiar (and an Extra Familiar feat or two). Plus, make your first level the changeling rogue substitution level so you get that tasty 40 + 4x Int skill points at level 1, along with a bunch of social Skill Masteries. And since changelings are half-human and half-doppelganger (either half of which can take Able Learner), I'd take Able Learner and at least one level of factotum to effectively make ALL skills class skills.

So something like:

Wizard 1 // Rogue 1
Wizard 3 // Factotum 3
Wizard 1 // Warblade 1
Fullcasting arcane PrC (or Wizard) 1 // Warblade 1
Wizard 1 // Jade Phoenix Mage 1

...then focus on skillmonkeyness on one side and JPM on the other. Maybe start into some swordsage and focus on teleportation/mobility maneuvers?

If you go changeling wizard dual specialization, look into master specialist and specialist wizard ACFs to double-up on your specialization bonuses...

[Lorddenorstrus]

If you can do gestalt do you need prestige classes? Warblade on one side and Beguiller on the other gives you physical combat, good skills, and a nice spell selection (usable in light armour) from Level 1 to 20. I imagine you can optimize further but that might be gilding the lily.

That's.. not really how our table plays honestly. I'm more min/max than the others, but the overall idea is to allow the second half to shore up weaknesses of your main goal. Which, for the most part are trying to make weaker concepts function. Like I made a Troll (savage species) Monk with scaling Unarmed / Claw and put it with a buffer/debuffer sorcerer Kobold a few years ago. Rode the troll while it flew at 200ft or something per round mauling what ever it got into contact with. The first character was "How do I make Monk/Unarmed par for what it needs to be." The second was frankly quite generic, I just messed with some out there PrCs.

In this case, my goal is to see what I can do with JPM. That's actually the entire point of the thread. Not "What to play instead of JPM" Also, suggesting to avoid PrCs entirely? I think you might play on the lower side of optimization /power compared to what I'm used to. I'm just trying to figure out how to get the most bang for my buck from using a PrC with cool features. I can't wait for the 10th lvl suicide bomber that respawns LOL.

Side note; does the Arcane spell a Factotum can cast qualify as Spontaneously casting for Versatile Spellcaster? Pretty good feat for added Wizard utility.


Snipped for size.

Good ideas, that is what I was looking for. My first thought was Conjuration Specialist for Abrupt Jaunt. Being rather SAD off Int for this build to the point I debated the Int to HP feat. I won't need much else in stats, besides perhaps strength for melee. That's a lot of Per day uses of Jaunt. Is sacrificing Jaunt for the familiar that useful? To be fair, I haven't ever used a familiar. I always ACF them to have to keep track of less stuff for some standard feature. Although, I hadn't really considered race yet. Good points all around. Considering party make up, I will need to cover Skillmonkey role so yeah swapping around levels to make sure I get the most out of Factotum having all skills and my high int is important so definitely push the WB levels for later..

[Particle_Man]

Well in general caster levels are good for optimization so before hitting JPM one side of the gestalt should be all wizard. The other side could split between be some initiator (any of the three would do) and factotum. Then after hitting JPM you can have the other side be wizard in the few levels that JPM does not advance caster level, and either factotum or the initiator class you initially chose (crusader, Warblade or swordsage) for the other levels.

That is just my opinion, mind.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Good ideas, that is what I was looking for. My first thought was Conjuration Specialist for Abrupt Jaunt.Since you're starting out at higher levels and have some WBL to burn, there's a cloak in Drow of the Underdark that grants abrupt jaunt, so you don't really need it as much.


Being rather SAD off Int for this build to the point I debated the Int to HP feat. I won't need much else in stats, besides perhaps strength for melee.Faerie Mysteries Initiate is definitely good, yes. More hp for an Int-focused specialist is pretty great, I think. Though if you roll for stats or have a good-sized point buy, you might want to save the feat and just put points in Con, or maybe invest in some polymorph any object scrolls for a high-Int/high-Con form.


That's a lot of Per day uses of Jaunt. Is sacrificing Jaunt for the familiar that useful?The cloak I mentioned above means you don't really need abrupt jaunt, since you can buy it with a bit of WBL.


To be fair, I haven't ever used a familiar. I always ACF them to have to keep track of less stuff for some standard feature.I usually do, too, but you're gonna have lots of HP (which it gets half of), and focusing a bit on a shapeshifting familiar could give you both a lot of versatility without needing to cast spells, and it gives you a fighting companion. If you make a list of all the different forms the changeling wizard's familiar gains with the Improved Familiar feat, I'm sure you could get some pretty nice SLAs and movement forms out of the deal. Remember: your familiar doesn't just look like an imp, it becomes an imp, complete with SLAs and additional shapeshifting. And it gains half the HP of a melee frontliner with a big HD and even bigger bonus HP from Con (or Int).

I think if you put a little effort into your familiar, it could be really, really useful.

Also, there's the Obtain Familiar feat, if you wanna exchange your standard familiar for an ACF.

Maybe dip into arcane hierophant so your familiar can take animal companion forms, as well? (Though the divine requirements could be a bit...awkward in this build.)

Or spell sovereign (Dragon Mag #357), for living spell forms! Muahahaha!


Although, I hadn't really considered race yet. Good points all around. Considering party make up, I will need to cover Skillmonkey role so yeah swapping around levels to make sure I get the most out of Factotum having all skills and my high int is important so definitely push the WB levels for later..Glad you liked my suggestions.