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mikethepoor
2007-10-10, 08:08 PM
Hey guys. I need to find some feats and/or classes that increase the rate at which I can craft alchemical items. I've already checked out the alchemical savant class (not allowed; we're in Greyhawk) and the Craft Expertise feat, but I was wondering if anyone knew of any others. Help is greatly appreciated.

SilverClawShift
2007-10-10, 08:31 PM
ready to be a 9th level gnome spellcaster?

Maester, 5 level class from complete adventurer. Lose 1 caster level, get 2 item creation bonus feats, and you can craft twice as fast (1 day per 2000 GP of the item).

Still not too good if you're looking to churn stuff out.

mikethepoor
2007-10-10, 08:38 PM
Not a bad idea, but I need to craft alchemical items this way. Also, not a gnome wizard (7th level human wizard). Should've said so earlier. Sorry.

Shisumo
2007-10-10, 08:44 PM
Is this a personal issue or a campaign issue? If it's the latter, you might consider the craft points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/craftPoints.htm) option in the SRD...

mikethepoor
2007-10-10, 09:03 PM
It's the former. I just want to be able to make alchemical items as fast as humanly possible so I can sell them for fun and profit.

SCPRedMage
2007-10-10, 11:12 PM
The Craft Points variant isn't the answer in this case. Not only is the Craft Point system NOT set up for making LOTS of items (it's designed for being able to make an item or two at a moment's notice), but it also has the added overhead of requiring extra feats just to make the items.

What you CAN do is voluntarily raise the DC of a Craft check (including Craft: Alchemy) by ten to represent rushed creation. This means when you do the DC x result calculation, you end up with a higher value being completed. I'm not sure if you can raise the DC by more than ten, though; that's up to DM interpretation.

That being said, what you'd need to do to take advantage of that is fairly obvious: get your stinking Craft: Alchemy as high as possible! Since you're playing a wizard, you'll have a good Int already, and it's a safe bet that you'll have max ranks in it. What you'll want is to take feats like Skill Focus, and make sure you have a good alchemy lab! Basically, anything that would help you get a higher result would help get you what you want.

leperkhaun
2007-10-11, 12:21 AM
If your DM allows it, you can try to take the artificer class from Ebberon. There are a set of feats that allow you to decrease xp/gold/time (sperate feats for each one) by 25/50/75/100% (seperate feat for each increase).

The other option is to ask your DM if you can increase the craft DC to cut the time down.

SCPRedMage
2007-10-11, 12:50 AM
If your DM allows it, you can try to take the artificer class from Ebberon. There are a set of feats that allow you to decrease xp/gold/time (sperate feats for each one) by 25/50/75/100% (seperate feat for each increase).
Unfortuneatly, this seems to be something of a common misunderstanding; crafting alchemical items is NOT the same as craft MAGICAL items.

The feats you are speaking of are Exceptional Artisan, Extraordinary (?) Artisan, and Legendary Artisan. None of them require Artificer, and each one reduces the base price of a magic item by 25% when calculating GP cost, XP cost, or time nessicary to make a magic item. For example, if you have Legendary Artisan, you pay XP cost based on 75% of the base price, and GP and time off of 100%. Here's the thing, however: the Feats table in the ECS marks all three with a footnote that you can take them multiple times, and that they stack. The errata, however, quite clearly states that this was a mistake, and that you can only take them ONCE; no making things for free!

Of course, this is all ilrelevant. Making alchemical items is a use of the Craft: Alchemy skill, and use the Craft rules, not the magic item rules. None of those feats apply.

Khanderas
2007-10-11, 01:08 AM
Apprentices ?
I dont know if there are rules for some "Aid another", in your setting or if it all applies to alchemy, but logic (ffff-TOOM) says to me it should.

Sure he would want to be paid, but there is no way he would be paid anywhere near what he makes.

And dont forget, if he is sufficiently good at it (trustworthy and whatnot) when you are out harvesting hydra heads, he is churning out the easier potions as well as restocking on the more mundane items (compared to hydra heads).

Why complicate things with feats and PrC's when a simple NPC can do the job. Risk of him bumbling but eh, I think it is worth it.

leperkhaun
2007-10-11, 01:12 AM
hmm, didnt check out the errata.

Anyway, there is no reason why if you can craft a magical item cheaper/faster/stronger that you cant make feats that do the same thing for mundane items.

SCPRedMage
2007-10-11, 04:04 AM
Apprentices ?
I dont know if there are rules for some "Aid another", in your setting or if it all applies to alchemy, but logic (ffff-TOOM) says to me it should.

Sure he would want to be paid, but there is no way he would be paid anywhere near what he makes.

And dont forget, if he is sufficiently good at it (trustworthy and whatnot) when you are out harvesting hydra heads, he is churning out the easier potions as well as restocking on the more mundane items (compared to hydra heads).

Why complicate things with feats and PrC's when a simple NPC can do the job. Risk of him bumbling but eh, I think it is worth it.
Aid Another is a standard D&D mechanic; DC 10 skill check, if they make it they get you a +2 circumstance bonus. Complete Adventurer takes it a step further, stating that for every 10 points you surpass that DC 10 (ie, 20, 30, etc), the bonus goes up by one.

Kantolin
2007-10-11, 05:29 AM
Fabricate?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fabricate.htm

Best spell ever, that one.

bugsysservant
2007-10-11, 05:46 AM
Fabricate?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fabricate.htm

Best spell ever, that one.

Yeah, but you have to wait till level nine to cast it yourself, and abusing it will rapidly cause rocks to fall, with humorous results.

Kantolin
2007-10-11, 06:06 AM
Yeah, but you have to wait till level nine to cast it yourself,

True, but it still exists as a reasonable option.


and abusing it will rapidly cause rocks to fall, with humorous results.

Possibly. I think of all the money-making 'abuses', alchemy is the least likely to cause problems: Making what, ~100 gold a day when you can cast two 5th level spells (and otherwise not being able to do anything combat-related iwth it) does not strike me as terribly relevant for a 9th level character. Insofar as I can think of, you'd have to start fabricating houses to make a relevant-to-game-mechanics amount of money. :P

Saph
2007-10-11, 06:16 AM
You could hire some staff. Most alchemical items are DC 15 or 20. A 1st-level wizard or other spellcaster can hit that reliably by taking 10. A few of them working in your personal alchemy lab will rapidly build up a stock of stuff.

If you're only making these things to sell them, though, it might not be worth it. But you're suppposed to be an adventurer, not a merchant. :P

- Saph

goat
2007-10-11, 09:42 AM
If you've got the cash, the standard method is an item of +10 craft (alchemy). If you have the craft(ring/wonderous item) feat, you could even make your own. Of course, if you HAD the 10/5k required, would you be wanting to speed craft for extra cash...

Other options include a magically augmented lab (probably some sort of lab bench with permanent unseen servants etc). But that would require a fixed location and some DM convincing work.

The thing is, crafting isn't the best way to get money OR equipment. If you've got downtime of a week, can make a DC check of 25 every time, and are making items which require a DC 25 check, you've just produced around 62.5GP worth of stuff. And at level 7, you can probably get that 25 check by taking 10, but not much more. You'll have what, 10 ranks + 4 int + 2 lab? That's a 26, or 65GP a week. Skill focus will get you a bit more, an apprentice would be another few. You could probably then craft DC 20 things with a voluntary +10...

You might be getting 93GP a week. Lop off a third for resources, a few GP for the apprentices pay, and selling everything you make could get you a total profit of about 60GP.

Just hope you've got cheap rent for your alchemy shop.

Randel
2007-10-11, 12:46 PM
While it's not something you can do at low-level (since one of the required spells is Fabricate), getting a Dedicated Wright homunculus could work out for making items. You just provide them with the skill check at the begining of crafting and they can churn out items constantly as long as you have the material ready for them. Though I think you can only have one working on magic items at a time due to the link you use to share XP. So you can have a bunch of them making flasks of alchemists fire or weapons while another makes potions or magic items.

Telonius
2007-10-11, 03:06 PM
Plane Shift to a plane with differently-flowing time (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#flowingTime). While it doesn't actually change the amount of subjective time you spend working on it, it can cut down on the objective base-plane time.

mikethepoor
2007-10-11, 04:31 PM
Thanks for all the help guys. A ring of +5 or +10 to Craft, if the DM allows, would help me a lot. I can't take the Artificer class though; I'm playing in Greyhawk. As for actually making money, I don't plan to become rich by doing this, it's just something that amuses me and brings in a small bonus. I am lucky enough to have cheap rent (3 gold a week!), and a couple guys eager to help.

mikethepoor
2007-10-11, 09:25 PM
Well, I just made this week's check results, with a new +5 ring and help from another PC, and made 825 silver worth of progress! Thanks again guys!

Khanderas
2007-10-12, 03:26 AM
Aid Another is a standard D&D mechanic; DC 10 skill check, if they make it they get you a +2 circumstance bonus. Complete Adventurer takes it a step further, stating that for every 10 points you surpass that DC 10 (ie, 20, 30, etc), the bonus goes up by one.
Yeah thats what I was thinking about.
Seriously though, logically having an apprentice should also speed the making up, you got twice the hands working and he takes care of the simple things.
But yeah, letting people own factories that run themselves and produce cash automatically could break stuff.

Kioran
2007-10-12, 04:00 AM
Yeah thats what I was thinking about.
Seriously though, logically having an apprentice should also speed the making up, you got twice the hands working and he takes care of the simple things.
But yeah, letting people own factories that run themselves and produce cash automatically could break stuff.

The apprentice could, thorugh Aid another, give you a +3 Bonus (Taking 10 +1 Int + 4 Ranks + 2 Alchi Lab + 3 Skill Focus = 20 for a +3, assuming hes a 1st lvl Expert). Since your speed grows exponentially, an apprentice/assistant or two could arguably speed the process significantly, above what they could do alone - representing their more effective work with your guidance and supervision.
And, at least to my tastes, were talking a maximum of a few hundred GP per week on mid-lvls......not much of an abuse to me, adventuring, stealing or similiar would net you more. I think, personally, this is what Leadership is for, and a good use for your followers. Leadership can be a lot of things: A merceneray company, a nobles manor household - or a small alchemical enterprise :smallbiggrin:

I think its fine and fun, and Id be amused and pleased if my players did such a thing.

mikethepoor
2007-11-08, 08:12 PM
UPDATE: My DM has allowed me to take levels in the alchemist savant class after all, which would send my productivity through the roof. I've pointed out to him that I'd be generating between 1100 and 1700 gold profit a week if allowed to do this indefinitely, since he's also allowing weekly checks to be made in gold (once I get the class) and a resale value of 75%. I could become fairly wealthy doing this, as long as I don't flood the market. So, the question: Is this a viable path to financial support independent of encounters, or just a fleeting dream?

Lochar
2007-11-08, 08:27 PM
Probably.

I about broke my DM with greater fabricate, psionic that way. 100 cu. feet per level, with high ranks in craft: armorsmithing?

You can quite literally flood the market with full plate.

I think I speced it out at somewhere around 150k gold a month, and that was at a discount.

AslanCross
2007-11-08, 08:34 PM
Is this a personal issue or a campaign issue? If it's the latter, you might consider the craft points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/craftPoints.htm) option in the SRD...

Agreed. Craft points were devised with the intentions of speeding up craft times.

Karsh
2007-11-08, 08:43 PM
My advice? Make TNT. Then hold the DM's game hostage. For more TNT.

Nothing can kill a game quite as effectively as a character with a seemingly endless supply of high explosives.

You probably *could* survive being an alchemist; but why would you want to? The only really interesting prospect of non-adventuring that I've encountered related to D&D was when my Wizard became the Baron of a newly conquered territory and then flew around on his newly acquired Pegasus sidekick helping new settlers construct stuff with Fabricate and a Lyre of Building that one of the other PCs and one of his vassals used.

Randel
2007-11-09, 04:40 AM
Well, in the Dungeon Masters Guide 2, there is a chapter on running businesses. I think there is a table of events that can happen that interfere with the business's operation.

For an alchemical item factory you could have:

One of the workers accidentally drops a flask of alchemists fire. Possibly causing damage to the building if not dealt with quickly.

Local government decides to check on your operation, if they like what they see they might set up some kind of deal, if they don't they may shut you down.

Something happens that interferes with the shipment of raw materials you use... maybe the dwarves have stopped mining sulfur and gone on to mine iron or something.

Bandits learn about your profitable business and try stealing some of your stuff. If they are really bold they might try starting a protection racket with you.

A Big Bad needs a large quantity of some substance for one of his evil schemes. Since you are cranking out stuff at super-human speed he calls you up to place a large order.

'Adventurers' find your factory, mistaking it for a dungeon. Hilarity ensues.

The waste products generated by your operation (obviously to get the right chemicals to mix you have to extract them from something at some point... and there are byproducts of this) are causing some pollution to local area. This upsets locals and possibly irritates fey.

Someone else hears about how much cash you are raking in and starts up their own operation, this takes away some of your business.

Monsters invade the area, do you protect your building or the local orphanage?

Recent cases of alchemist fire violence make people angry about you for making so much alchemist's fire. People start a protest against you.

You begin to flood the market with your current product, but someone offers to buy large quantities for just barely above your cost to produce.

Someone approaches you with a recipe for a new type of alchemical item that they say will make you rich, they will sell it for 5000 gp.

The local merchants ran out of vials.

Enguhl
2007-11-09, 05:56 AM
You can purposefully increase the DC by 10 to make the crafting go faster.

mikethepoor
2007-11-10, 11:28 AM
Well, in the Dungeon Masters Guide 2, there is a chapter on running businesses. I think there is a table of events that can happen that interfere with the business's operation.

For an alchemical item factory you could have:

One of the workers accidentally drops a flask of alchemists fire. Possibly causing damage to the building if not dealt with quickly.

Local government decides to check on your operation, if they like what they see they might set up some kind of deal, if they don't they may shut you down.

Something happens that interferes with the shipment of raw materials you use... maybe the dwarves have stopped mining sulfur and gone on to mine iron or something.

Bandits learn about your profitable business and try stealing some of your stuff. If they are really bold they might try starting a protection racket with you.

A Big Bad needs a large quantity of some substance for one of his evil schemes. Since you are cranking out stuff at super-human speed he calls you up to place a large order.

'Adventurers' find your factory, mistaking it for a dungeon. Hilarity ensues.

The waste products generated by your operation (obviously to get the right chemicals to mix you have to extract them from something at some point... and there are byproducts of this) are causing some pollution to local area. This upsets locals and possibly irritates fey.

Someone else hears about how much cash you are raking in and starts up their own operation, this takes away some of your business.

Monsters invade the area, do you protect your building or the local orphanage?

Recent cases of alchemist fire violence make people angry about you for making so much alchemist's fire. People start a protest against you.

You begin to flood the market with your current product, but someone offers to buy large quantities for just barely above your cost to produce.

Someone approaches you with a recipe for a new type of alchemical item that they say will make you rich, they will sell it for 5000 gp.

The local merchants ran out of vials.

Given the fact that I'm using the alchemical labs at a wizards' guild of which I am a member, working on the products alone, and by the time I reach this productivity I'll be 11th level, it's more likely that I'd be plagued by supply and demand problems than actual damage to the labs. Still, any of these could present a gret hazard to deal with, and I'll point my DM this way.


You can purposefully increase the DC by 10 to make the crafting go faster.

I'm already doing that, and still autosucceeding on many checks. Soon I'll be able to +20 it guaranteed, or I can +20 now at risk.