Can Clerics Channel Spells Through Weapons?

[Palanan]

More specifically, is there any way that a cleric could channel a prepared spell through a melee weapon?

I know that Channel Smite allows a cleric to deliver positive or negative energy to a melee target, but I’m looking for a way that a cleric could channel, say, Contagion or Sands of Time on a successful melee attack.

In other words, essentially a divine version of the Spellstrike ability from the magus. Does anything like this exist?

[StSword]

Well there is the spell storing weapon (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/spell-storing/) quality for melee weapons, limited to 1st through 3rd level spells though.

There's also conductive (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/conductive/), which allows one to channel supernatural or spell like abilities like say a clerical domain power through a melee weapon, although I'm aware that isn't exactly what you asked for.

[Eldonauran]

If prestige into Exalted (https://aonprd.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Exalted), and have Nethys as your deity, you can get Staff Channel as your 2nd boon. If you don't have levels in Exalted, you could get the ability at level 16 (but that's really late).


Staff Channel (Su) You can deliver touch spells with a casting time of one standard action or longer through a quarterstaff. Using this ability doesn’t change the casting time or other qualities of the spell, but you must make a melee attack with your quarterstaff against the target’s AC rather than a touch attack against its touch AC. If you hit the target, you deal quarterstaff damage as well as discharge the spell effect. You can hold the charge as normal when delivering a touch spell through a quarterstaff.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Eldonauran
If prestige into Exalted, and have Nethys as your deity, you can get Staff Channel as your 2nd boon.

Interesting, thanks. If this were adapted into a standalone feat, would it be too strong?

Meaning, is the ability to channel divine touch spells through a melee attack too strong for a single feat?

.

[Helluin]

I think in 3.5, this is generally considered one of the best class features of Ordained Champion, so i believe that converting it iNto a feat in PF is in fact a bit too much. Maybe give it some prereq feat tax and/or a level-dependent requirements (being able to cast x-th level divine spell, BAB 10, etc.)

Also keep in mind that Druid can also use this feat, and that combined with their Wild Shape can make a really nasty melee character.

[Eldonauran]

Considering outside of playing an Exalted, the ability is meant to be available at level 16 (12 with Exalted) and locked behind Deification Obedience. I don't see why you couldn't make it into a feat, but you should make it something slightly more difficult to do. Here are examples of ways other similar abilities are available:

Magus Arcana (Broad Study): 6 Levels of Magus + levels of your other casting class (spellstrike comes built in)
Variant Multi Class Magus: Broad study Magus Arcana taken at 7th level and Spellstrike comes online at level 11. This costs you five total feats, and a good bit of time your 7th level choice is useless (unless retraining is an option).

So, feel free to make it a feat(feat chain), but kept these things in mind.

[Palanan]

Okay, thanks for the perspective. Here’s how I would do it as a feat:

Divine Spellstrike

Prerequisites: Wis 15, Channel Energy class feature, Channel Smite, ability to cast third-level divine spells.

Benefit: On a successful melee strike with your deity’s favored weapon, you may deliver one prepared spell with a range of “touch” through your weapon as a part of that melee attack. The spell’s effects are not modified by any critical multipliers that may apply to the weapon’s damage, and spell resistance applies normally. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier.

[exelsisxax]

Okay, thanks for the perspective. Here’s how I would do it as a feat:

Divine Spellstrike

Prerequisites: Wis 15, Channel Energy class feature, Channel Smite, ability to cast third-level divine spells.

Benefit: On a successful melee strike with your deity’s favored weapon, you may deliver one prepared spell with a range of “touch” through your weapon as a part of that melee attack. The spell’s effects are not modified by any critical multipliers that may apply to the weapon’s damage, and spell resistance applies normally. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier.

That's an insane upgrade on spellstrike. You need to clarify that you must cast the spell first, not get an instant non-action(and therefore usable on AoO and during a full attack) AFTER you determine that you already hit. As is, this is total lunacy.

[Eldonauran]

That's an insane upgrade on spellstrike. You need to clarify that you must cast the spell first, not get an instant non-action(and therefore usable on AoO and during a full attack) AFTER you determine that you already hit. As is, this is total lunacy.
I agree to a certain extent, with the added caveat that this 'ability' require the expenditure of at LEAST a swift action (thus limiting it to ONCE a round, on your turn) or that the entire feat require its own attack action (so that it requires a standard action). The limit on times per day being equal to the wisdom modifier puts it on par with a domain ability, if slightly more limited in use.

Even with those restrictions in place, this feat is powerful and would mostly likely be taken by nearly every cleric if they could. Just something to keep in mind.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Eldonauran
Even with those restrictions in place, this feat is powerful and would mostly likely be taken by nearly every cleric if they could. Just something to keep in mind.

I appreciate the constructive criticism. Clearly I’m feeling my way through this, and I’m certainly open to helpful feedback.

It sounds like adding a phrase about a standard action would help address some of the concerns. I’d appreciate any suggestions on how exactly to phrase that.

[exelsisxax]

"When you cast a divine touch attack spell as a standard action, you may deliver the charge by a melee weapon attack in place of the melee touch attack normally used by such spells."

and figure out if you want the spell to crit or not like a spellstrike does.

[Eldonauran]

"When you cast a divine touch attack spell as a standard action, you may deliver the charge by a melee weapon attack in place of the melee touch attack normally used by such spells."

and figure out if you want the spell to crit or not like a spellstrike does.
Looks good. I vote for NOT letting the spell crit based on the weapon's range. Also, let's not forget about the touch attack not being wasted if you miss with the weapon.

[exelsisxax]

Looks good. I vote for NOT letting the spell crit based on the weapon's range. Also, let's not forget about the touch attack not being wasted if you miss with the weapon.

The charge wouldn't be wasted anyway by RAW. But reminder text is fine. However, if you wanted to deliver the charge by weapon in subsequent rounds you'd need to say that, because as I wrote it you only get the weapon delivery on the cast, not under any other circumstance.

You could also stipulate that the spell is entirely separate from the weapon and can't benefit from crits at all.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Eldonauran
I vote for NOT letting the spell crit based on the weapon's range.

This was my thought, and I tried to express that in the first version, but clearly not well enough.


Originally Posted by Eldonauran
Also, let's not forget about the touch attack not being wasted if you miss with the weapon.

Thanks, another good point to include.

With these in mind, here’s my second version:

Divine Spellstrike

Prerequisites: Wis 15, Spellcraft 5 ranks, Channel Energy class feature, Channel Smite, ability to cast third-level divine spells.

Benefit: As a standard action, when you cast a spell with the range of “touch” from your divine spell list, you may deliver the spell through a successful melee attack with your deity’s favored weapon. The spell’s effects are not modified by any critical multipliers that may apply to the weapon’s damage. If the melee attack is unsuccessful the spell is not expended. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier.

[bean illus]

You may want to read the Channel Spell ability of Ordained Champion level 3. It's an E8 ability, cost a move action, wraps the casting time, and specifically addresses holding the charge for 8 hrs.

It's a strong ability, but travel devotion turbos it.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by bean illus
You may want to read the Channel Spell ability of Ordained Champion level 3. It's an E8 ability, cost a move action, wraps the casting time, and specifically addresses holding the charge for 8 hrs.

Interesting, thanks. This is a different mechanic than what I’m going for, since I’m trying to replicate the spellstrike ability from the PF magus, just with divine spells.

Channel Spell looks like a great ability, but a very different approach from the magus, and I’d rather not try to merge the two.

[Helluin]

I feel that it’s probably best to use a bab restriction, in place of the ability to cast 3rd level spell. As is, clerics can take the feat at level 5, which makes it ridiculously good (because Clerics need another power boost at low level to stay relevant :smallsigh:); on the other hand, any paladins who want to use this feat will need to wait until level 10...

Given that a limited form of this ability becomes available at lvl 12 in PF, it probably more reasonable to use a bab requirement of 7, and the ability to cast (any levels of) divine spells - that way, Clerics and Warpriests can take it at lvl 11, and Paladins can get it at lvl 7, but will have fewer spells they could use in conjunction with this feat. Seems like a fair trade off to me.

[Treblain]

For clerics and other divine casters, there is Blessed Hammer (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Blessed%20Hammer)which requires third-level spellcasting, uses a swift action, and only works with warhammers.

For Oracles, the Ascetic (https://aonprd.com/MysteryDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ascetic)mystery has Oracular Spellstrike, which only works with unarmed strikes and seems to forbid any method of putting it in other weapons, such as the Ascetic Form (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/ascetic-form-combat) feat, but maybe a permissive GM would let you ignore that part.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Helluin
I feel that it’s probably best to use a bab restriction, in place of the ability to cast 3rd level spell. As is, clerics can take the feat at level 5, which makes it ridiculously good (because Clerics need another power boost at low level to stay relevant ); on the other hand, any paladins who want to use this feat will need to wait until level 10...

Given that a limited form of this ability becomes available at lvl 12 in PF, it probably more reasonable to use a bab requirement of 7, and the ability to cast (any levels of) divine spells - that way, Clerics and Warpriests can take it at lvl 11, and Paladins can get it at lvl 7, but will have fewer spells they could use in conjunction with this feat. Seems like a fair trade off to me.


Originally Posted by Treblain
For clerics and other divine casters, there is Blessed Hammer which requires third-level spellcasting, uses a swift action, and only works with warhammers.

For Oracles, the Ascetic mystery has Oracular Spellstrike, which only works with unarmed strikes and seems to forbid any method of putting it in other weapons, such as the Ascetic Form feat, but maybe a permissive GM would let you ignore that part.

These are all good points. Oracular Spellstrike comes online at 7th, which isn’t much above the level I’m aiming at, even if it’s with unarmed strikes instead of a weapon. But I also see Helluin’s point about the disparity between clerics and paladins, which had occurred to me as well.

Maybe a feat is not the way to go. What I really want is a divine version of the magus, and it sounds like the cleric is a bit too much of a chassis to hang this on.

So, maybe just a divine magus? Meaning, a divine caster using the magus chassis, with divine spellstrike as the signature feature, and domains instead of magus arcana. That feels like too much of a departure from the magus concept to accomplish with an archetype, but not sure how else to implement it.

[Helluin]

Make a warpriest archetype and trade out fervor (for spell strike) & sacred weapon/blessings (for spell combat)?