Does Vow of Poverty make sense to take now?

[SangoProduction]

So, playing Dvati (yay!)

However, the DM rules that each twin has separate item slots, and thus must be equipped separately. This means essentially, I must pay double for the same benefits.

That's fine. I guess. Especially as the best uses of Dvati work well on incredibly low economy anyway (aside from trying to do a quad-wield rogue). Warlock, Incarnum, DFA, etc.

But, since we do have magical support in the rest of the team to provide situational buffs and flight and stuff, does it make sense in this situation, where feats are shared, but items are not, to take Vow of Poverty.

[AnimeTheCat]

So, playing Dvati (yay!)

However, the DM rules that each twin has separate item slots, and thus must be equipped separately. This means essentially, I must pay double for the same benefits.

That's fine. I guess. Especially as the best uses of Dvati work well on incredibly low economy anyway (aside from trying to do a quad-wield rogue). Warlock, Incarnum, DFA, etc.

But, since we do have magical support in the rest of the team to provide situational buffs and flight and stuff, does it make sense in this situation, where feats are shared, but items are not, to take Vow of Poverty.

Whether it "makes sense" or not is really kind of irrelevant. If you want to Play with Vow of Poverty, play with it. If you're playing a magical or incarnum class, you might even come out ahead as far as ability and power, since you're not relying on magic items as a priority anyway. In fact, playing a wizard/incarnate could be pretty awesome with VoP, though Druid would probably be more "powerful".

What's your planned character concept? Is it the quad-weilding rogue you're going to try? or is it something else? perhaps you only know the race? More info would definitely help.

[SangoProduction]

Only know the race, and that we somehow have to be from


Forgotten Realms, specifically from the Heartlands

The previous year of tumult is over - the flight of dragons cessated, Sylune of Shadowdale has fallen, and Tilverton seized by Cormyr. It is now 1357 DR and Faerun moves forward.

Don't know a damned thing about it.

[AnimeTheCat]

Only know the race, and that we somehow have to be from



Don't know a damned thing about it.

oh ok, so you haven't settled on a particular character concept yet? Something like Druid, Wizard(or sorcerer), Cleric, Incarnate, Totemist, Warlock, or similar class that doesn't need to rely on the existence of magic items to get along. That's just a good call for playing a Dvati in general, regardless of whether you want to use VoP. Do I think taking VoP would be fun, viable, and/or interesting, ALWAYS! I enjoy playing with it (even while play the forum shunned monk and fighter) simply because the DMs that I play with are usually not going to plan something that the party can't overcome with proper planning and teamwork, and my party members are not so selfish as to not include a party member if there are problems that we need to overcome (with flight or similar).

If you're concerned with your party needing to cover for you, you would be well within your rights (after donating craptons of loot to the church of your choosing) to ask a favor of said church in the form of either spellcasting services or a gift of a magic item to the party in order to serve your endeavors of goodness. Ideally, this would be a pearl of power that the party can use on your behalf or perhaps even a wand that the party can use (not just for you). The idea is that it's not a posession of yours, but it is something that aids the whole party. I get the impression from the feat (and Book of Exalted Deeds in general) that characters that are exalted should be rewarded in more diverse ways, rather than just with loot.

Either way, it doesn't matter really whether it "makes sense" or not. If you want to play with it, do so. If your group finds it difficult to keep you included because of it, discuss with your DM a way to fix that, and if it can't be fixed, either retire the character or go out in a blaze of glory and make a new one. Discuss it with your group ahead of time and let it play out organically.

[SangoProduction]

Not to be disparaging or anything, but we are fundamentally starting on different grounds. The implicit assumption made in the OP was that it's not normally a good pick for 2 feats, in the very limited pool of feats, which also forces you to you to lose magic items to get a lesser gold value of stats, in a way that's less flexible than if you bought items.

And I wanted to know if/how losing half the effective WBL (for worn equipment anyway) changes that.

If you are saying your answer doesn't change, and that it's always worth it (which we disagree on), then it doesn't really help.

[AnimeTheCat]

Not to be disparaging or anything, but we are fundamentally starting on different grounds. The implicit assumption made in the OP was that it's not normally a good pick for 2 feats, in the very limited pool of feats, which also forces you to you to lose magic items to get a lesser gold value of stats, in a way that's less flexible than if you bought items.

And I wanted to know if/how losing half the effective WBL (for worn equipment anyway) changes that.

If you are saying your answer doesn't change, and that it's always worth it (which we disagree on), then it doesn't really help.

Truthfully, the most effective way to outfit both of your twins is to be a spellcaster, take crafting feats, and make all your gear for the same cost it would take to purchase and outfit a single character (without crafting). VoP doesn't matter. The most effective way to get what you want is to just get what you want, which is what I was encouraging you to do, that's all. Vow of Poverty is still Vow of Poverty, and being two characters in one doesn't change that. you're still going to have difficulties and you're still going to have the same weaknesses. You can't just outfit one of your characters with stuff and not lose VoP, because both twins have to abide by it. Just play a crafting caster, make all your own gear, and handle it that way if you're worried about WBL. If you want to play VoP, play VoP and don't worry about it, just make sure the DM and the party are ready for it and willing to cover the weaknesses.

[Malroth]

Honestly an Item creation feat would be a much better way of making up the gap than vow of poverty, since not only are you back down to normal wealth cost but you can get utility items you need only one of at half price as well.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I don't think VoP makes more sense now, since you're still missing important utility effects, unless your party is providing a very comprehensive buffstack (the Persistomancy type). Equipment is an issue for dvati, but VoP is only tangentially related, and doesn't really tackle the problem so much as invalidate it.

[Mr Adventurer]

How do grafts work with Dvati normally? Does one body get the graft but both bodies benefit? Weird...

[Unavenger]

So, by a strict cash value, VoP always made sense. But this is making weird assumptions such as "Anyone would actually ever buy a ring of regeneration at full price". So we probably can't really take that the way it's listed.

Let's think about this with the cash values that you might actually pay for the effects in mind, specifically based on what class you are. If you're a druid, and want to spend all your time wildshaped, you have to pay a 4000gp premium on any item you want to function in the wildshape (ignoring the dvati issue for now). This is mostly irrelevant at low levels but sucks quite a lot at high levels. Therefore, you might be more willing to pay high prices for similar bonuses, not tied to an item. Similarly, if you can get better use out of an effect than most people (the Exalted Strike ability is far more useful if you're spamming natural attacks - or if you're Aya Shadowlight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22192864&postcount=76), notable for having not only won an IC round but become the 11th-best IC entry ever (at the time) while using VoP in the build - than for most characters) then you can price it higher.

Druids were already almost undisputed as kings of VoP for these reasons: VoP obviates the need to spend an extra 4k on everything you want to wear and provides a bunch of bonuses relevant to animal-shaped druids. Add in the fact that everything costs double now, and I would say that if you're a druid, yes, VoP is a good idea.

For other classes, it depends on things like "Does this class have easy access to flight without using magic items?" and "Am I actually wielding weapons, which would make Exalted Strike actually worthwhile?" But in general, considering VoP to be just as much upside and half as much downside should help you make the decision.

[Vizzerdrix]

Isn't dvati one of those races that makes good Fiend of Possessions?

[Saintheart]

Only know the race, and that we somehow have to be from


The previous year of tumult is over - the flight of dragons cessated, Sylune of Shadowdale has fallen, and Tilverton seized by Cormyr. It is now 1357 DR and Faerun moves forward.

Don't know a damned thing about it.

Can't help much about builds, but if the game's set in 1357 DR, it predates third edition by about twenty years or so. 3.0 D&D was set to commence around 1372 DR. The Time of Troubles, where the gods get chucked out of the planes for being a bunch of uncaring slobs, is due about 1 year from then. If your DM's planning on working you into anything terribly significant, there's the Spellfire series of novels that play out in the Heartlands, as well as the stories that underlie the old game Curse of the Azure Bonds.

[MisterKaws]

You guys seem to forget that Dvati have a massive restriction on spellcasting, having to spend actions on both sides to cast any spell(and with transparency, powers as well).