Mr Adventurer
2019-08-04, 04:04 AM
The premise of this thread is that at 20th class level, Dread Necromancers get to apply the Lich template. I know some people debate this - I have seen those debates and this thread is not for holding them again.
This thread is about looking at what a Dread Necromancer 20 with the Lich template would look like, given the hearty amount of overlap between the Dread Necromancer class features and the traits of the Undead type or the abilities of the Lich template. It looks at each DN class feature that is replicated or overlaps. So, to get started:
Charnel Touch: At level 20, this deals 1d8+5 points of damage. A lich also has a special touch attack that deals 1d8+5 points of damage. This probably means that a DN lich has a superpowered touch attack in comparison to a regular lich - dealing two instances of the same negative energy damage, for a total of 2d8+10, plus the lich Paralysing Touch ability.
Lich body: DR 8/bludgeoning and magic. Obviously the lich DR 15/bludgeoning and magic overlaps this and effectively replaces it most of the time; however, if you lose your lich DR for some reason, you'll still have DR 8 in reserve.
Mental Bastion: the +4 bonus to saves vs sleep, stunning, paralysis, poison, or disease overlaps with the native immunities to these special attacks from the Undead type. If you lose your Undead immunities for some reason, though, the save bonus might come in handy.
Fear Aura: A lich has their own one of these, and it works in a different way, with a 60-foot area but no effect on creatures over 4 HD, causing them to Panic if failing their save. You retain your DN Fear Aura, though, which is much more mild in area and effect but without a HD limitation, making targets Shaken. It does however let you get two bites at the fear cherry, if that's your thing. When creatures come within 60 feet of you, check to see if they're vulnerable to your lich aura. If anyone gets next to you, they get to try their Will against your DN aura.
Scabrous Touch: A lich can't inflict disease by touch by means of the template, but this explicitly can be layered onto Charnel Touch, so you can use this to touch a creature for 2d8+10 plus disease plus paralysis.
Negative Energy Resistance: a +4 bonus on saves versus negative energy effects, including energy drain, some ability drain, and inflict spells overlaps with the Undead immunities to ability drain and energy drain; inflict spells will obviously be healing you at this point so you won't be making saves against them. The interaction of negative energy effects in general and the Undead type is not always clear, so the blanket +4 to saves might still come in handy if you come up against an effect that doesn't specify a different effect on Undead (and doesn't founder against the Undead immunity to things requiring Fort saves). As well, if you lose your Undead blanket immunities somehow - like if someone hits you with spark of life - then you will retain your class feature save bonuses.
Fortification: 50% fortification, as the armour special ability. This overlaps with the Undead type immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks, but still might protect you if you run into something that can critical undead, or if your Undead immunity is suppressed.
Enervating Touch: Again, no equivalent in the lich template, but it can be layered on top of Charnel Touch. This means you could potentially deal 2d8+10 plus 2 negative levels plus paralysis with a single touch; if you can also combine it with Scabrous Touch, that's 2d8+10 plus 2 negative levels plus disease plus paralysis. You can presumably do this as part of a touch used to deliver a touch spell, too, adding a nice rider to your melee (or 4th-level-or-lower) touch spell attacks. By the way, I listed the Enervating Touch effect before the disease or the paralysis for a reason: if you can get those negative levels on them, it will affect the saving throws they need to make against the disease and the paralysis. If the disease also penalises Constitution, their chances of saving versus the paralysis, or a Fort-targeting spell, are even lower.
And that's it! There are more class features that the Dread Necromancer has, and there are more features of the Lich template or the Undead type, but I only wanted to look at overlaps and direct synergies.
However, I've been reading the old Dread Necromancer handbooks I've been able to Google up on this board, and there are a couple of things which seem to crop up in them which I wanted to point out:
Spectral Hand only lets you deliver spells of 4th level or less. I see comments in these guide threads saying it should be used to deliver certain spells, that are of a higher level and so are not eligible.
Aura of Terror won't increase the DC of your Fear Aura (Dread Necromancer or Lich). The bullet pointed list of effects specifies that both Frightful Presence or Fear Aura powers are affected by the area increase, but that only a Frightful Presence power gets the DC boost, and that only a Fear Aura power gets the fear status upgrade. (Aura of Terror can be taken as a 6th level Advanced Learning.) The spell is complicated, because for a typical DN it does also grant you a Frightful Presence power, but it doesn't simultaneously upgrade it. Being under the effect, a 20th level DN lich would have: A 70-foot aura causing Panic in creatures under 5 HD; A 30-foot aura causing creatures with fewer HD than your caster level to become Shaken; A 15-foot aura that causes creatures of any HD to become Frightened.
This thread is about looking at what a Dread Necromancer 20 with the Lich template would look like, given the hearty amount of overlap between the Dread Necromancer class features and the traits of the Undead type or the abilities of the Lich template. It looks at each DN class feature that is replicated or overlaps. So, to get started:
Charnel Touch: At level 20, this deals 1d8+5 points of damage. A lich also has a special touch attack that deals 1d8+5 points of damage. This probably means that a DN lich has a superpowered touch attack in comparison to a regular lich - dealing two instances of the same negative energy damage, for a total of 2d8+10, plus the lich Paralysing Touch ability.
Lich body: DR 8/bludgeoning and magic. Obviously the lich DR 15/bludgeoning and magic overlaps this and effectively replaces it most of the time; however, if you lose your lich DR for some reason, you'll still have DR 8 in reserve.
Mental Bastion: the +4 bonus to saves vs sleep, stunning, paralysis, poison, or disease overlaps with the native immunities to these special attacks from the Undead type. If you lose your Undead immunities for some reason, though, the save bonus might come in handy.
Fear Aura: A lich has their own one of these, and it works in a different way, with a 60-foot area but no effect on creatures over 4 HD, causing them to Panic if failing their save. You retain your DN Fear Aura, though, which is much more mild in area and effect but without a HD limitation, making targets Shaken. It does however let you get two bites at the fear cherry, if that's your thing. When creatures come within 60 feet of you, check to see if they're vulnerable to your lich aura. If anyone gets next to you, they get to try their Will against your DN aura.
Scabrous Touch: A lich can't inflict disease by touch by means of the template, but this explicitly can be layered onto Charnel Touch, so you can use this to touch a creature for 2d8+10 plus disease plus paralysis.
Negative Energy Resistance: a +4 bonus on saves versus negative energy effects, including energy drain, some ability drain, and inflict spells overlaps with the Undead immunities to ability drain and energy drain; inflict spells will obviously be healing you at this point so you won't be making saves against them. The interaction of negative energy effects in general and the Undead type is not always clear, so the blanket +4 to saves might still come in handy if you come up against an effect that doesn't specify a different effect on Undead (and doesn't founder against the Undead immunity to things requiring Fort saves). As well, if you lose your Undead blanket immunities somehow - like if someone hits you with spark of life - then you will retain your class feature save bonuses.
Fortification: 50% fortification, as the armour special ability. This overlaps with the Undead type immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks, but still might protect you if you run into something that can critical undead, or if your Undead immunity is suppressed.
Enervating Touch: Again, no equivalent in the lich template, but it can be layered on top of Charnel Touch. This means you could potentially deal 2d8+10 plus 2 negative levels plus paralysis with a single touch; if you can also combine it with Scabrous Touch, that's 2d8+10 plus 2 negative levels plus disease plus paralysis. You can presumably do this as part of a touch used to deliver a touch spell, too, adding a nice rider to your melee (or 4th-level-or-lower) touch spell attacks. By the way, I listed the Enervating Touch effect before the disease or the paralysis for a reason: if you can get those negative levels on them, it will affect the saving throws they need to make against the disease and the paralysis. If the disease also penalises Constitution, their chances of saving versus the paralysis, or a Fort-targeting spell, are even lower.
And that's it! There are more class features that the Dread Necromancer has, and there are more features of the Lich template or the Undead type, but I only wanted to look at overlaps and direct synergies.
However, I've been reading the old Dread Necromancer handbooks I've been able to Google up on this board, and there are a couple of things which seem to crop up in them which I wanted to point out:
Spectral Hand only lets you deliver spells of 4th level or less. I see comments in these guide threads saying it should be used to deliver certain spells, that are of a higher level and so are not eligible.
Aura of Terror won't increase the DC of your Fear Aura (Dread Necromancer or Lich). The bullet pointed list of effects specifies that both Frightful Presence or Fear Aura powers are affected by the area increase, but that only a Frightful Presence power gets the DC boost, and that only a Fear Aura power gets the fear status upgrade. (Aura of Terror can be taken as a 6th level Advanced Learning.) The spell is complicated, because for a typical DN it does also grant you a Frightful Presence power, but it doesn't simultaneously upgrade it. Being under the effect, a 20th level DN lich would have: A 70-foot aura causing Panic in creatures under 5 HD; A 30-foot aura causing creatures with fewer HD than your caster level to become Shaken; A 15-foot aura that causes creatures of any HD to become Frightened.