Reducing one mental stat to 0

[lolcat]

I am planning to create a selection of host-bodies to use with magic jar. To achieve this, i imagine a good way is just to try and get one mental stat of the victims to 0, hence having them comatose and without capability to plot (or suffer) while on standby.

Are there any spells, poisons (outside of BoVD) or other tools that can get a mental ability score down to 0 for a longer duration (guess if normal ability healing applies, it will restore by 1(day?)

Thanks for the input, as usual :)

[Helluin]

Control undead to get an Allip, Create Greater Undead for a ghost with ability drain, that kind of thing

[Mike Miller]

If those creatures reduce the stat to 0, I believe the drained creature becomes one of the undead.

[MisterKaws]

Coming fresh from the LA-assignment thread: Phthisic have an Int drain bite attack, which is usually Ability Damage, but becomes permanent Ability Drain if the oponent drops to 0 Int. Ability Drain is never restored naturally, so you only have to keep the body safe.

[Mr Adventurer]

Greater Bestow Curse can reduce one ability score to 1, getting you most of the way there.

But if you're putting in the effort to keep a stable of healthy living comatose bodies ready to use, you may as well engage in spell research to make a new spell that does exactly what you want.

[Quertus]

Greater Bestow Curse can reduce one ability score to 1, getting you most of the way there.

But if you're putting in the effort to keep a stable of healthy living comatose bodies ready to use, you may as well engage in spell research to make a new spell that does exactly what you want.

AFB, but can't Bestow Curse get it the rest of the way?

[Remuko]

AFB, but can't Bestow Curse get it the rest of the way?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bestowCurse.htm

Relevant bit:


You place a curse on the subject. Choose one of the following three effects.

-6 decrease to an ability score (minimum 1).

[Buufreak]

My most outstanding concern here is how do you keep the bodies alive after? I suppose a handful of rings of sustenance would provide a stand in for iv and feeding tubes.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Amy disease that hits any stat but Con. They cannot kill so if you just buff a disease and spam infect the target it's stat will slowly decay to 0. Ideally you want to buff the diseases save or nerf the targets. Is is surprinsg how meningitis is less dangerous on DnD than a cold is in our world.

[Crichton]

My most outstanding concern here is how do you keep the bodies alive after? I suppose a handful of rings of sustenance would provide a stand in for iv and feeding tubes.

Quintessence, Temporal Stasis, or if you can find a way to guarantee the subject can make a DC15 Fort save to survive de-petrification, use Flesh to Stone->Stone to Flesh for a gp-free, lower level option. Of course, that's only needed for long term storage. 2500gp per body for your suggested Ring of Sustenance would probably be one of the cheaper options, actually, unless you can guarantee that they make their for save for de-petrification.

And I guess for that matter, starvation/thirst damage is all nonlethal damage and fatigue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#starvationAndThirst). It can't actually kill them, and they're already unconscious, so nonlethal damage can't make them any more unconscious. Just gotta feed and heal them as soon as you magic jar into them.

[Kayblis]

If you can spare a single spell slot, you can keep the bodies in a small pool and cast Minor/Major Creation every day to fill it with temporary Contact poison that doesn't affect Con. Give each a Ring of Sustenance and you have yourself a body pool at no cost other than the rings.

[Helluin]

If those creatures reduce the stat to 0, I believe the drained creature becomes one of the undead.

No it doesn’t. Not for Allip, not for ghost. At least I don’t see anything in their monster entries that indicate this.

[MisterKaws]

No it doesn’t. Not for Allip, not for ghost. At least I don’t see anything in their monster entries that indicate this.

This is right. The undead creation thing is mostly only valid for undead that drain Con, though someone will likely prove me wrong by posting an undead with a Dex drain undead creation from some weird splat. Allip is a very common undead used for incapacitating targets, since very few creatures have Wisdom scores over the mid-10s, and even fewer(besides humanoids and outsiders) have ways to damage incorporeal undead.

[Mr Adventurer]

This is right. The undead creation thing is mostly only valid for undead that drain Con, though someone will likely prove me wrong by posting an undead with a Dex drain undead creation from some weird splat. Allip is a very common undead used for incapacitating targets, since very few creatures have Wisdom scores over the mid-10s, and even fewer(besides humanoids and outsiders) have ways to damage incorporeal undead.

Shadows and Vampires are in the MM and possibly best-known undead in D&D, my dude. Spawn by means of energy drain is surely the most common over all, but I definitely don't think Constitution drain is the one "mostly only valid" option.

I'm not sure "valid" is even the appropriate term to use.

EDIT: In the Monster Manual, out of ~15 creature entries with the Undead type, here are the ones that create spawn explicitly (i.e. they say so, not just the whole death by negative levels equals Wight thing) without dealing Constitution drain:

Bodak (death gaze)
Ghoul (disease)
Mohrg (just killing)
Spectre (killing)
Vampire (creates Vampire Spawn by negative levels)
Wight (killing)

Here are the ones that deal Constitution drain and create spawn:

Wraith
Vampires when using blood drain and they want to

[MisterKaws]

Shadows and Vampires are in the MM and possibly best-known undead in D&D, my dude. Spawn by means of energy drain is surely the most common over all, but I definitely don't think Constitution drain is the one "mostly only valid" option.

I'm not sure "valid" is even the appropriate term to use.

EDIT: In the Monster Manual, out of ~15 creature entries with the Undead type, here are the ones that create spawn explicitly (i.e. they say so, not just the whole death by negative levels equals Wight thing) without dealing Constitution drain:

Bodak (death gaze)
Ghoul (disease)
Mohrg (just killing)
Spectre (killing)
Vampire (creates Vampire Spawn by negative levels)
Wight (killing)

Here are the ones that deal Constitution drain and create spawn:

Wraith
Vampires when using blood drain and they want to

And I got proven wrong super fast. There you go.

[The Viscount]

If those creatures reduce the stat to 0, I believe the drained creature becomes one of the undead.

As mentioned this rule is only true for some undead. For ghosts and allips, they do not kill or create spawn in this manner. An allip can be temporarily summoned via Summon Undead IV, or 2 allips with Summon Undead V.

I'll also mention the Spider Eater for it's standout poison that induces paralysis that lasts for 1d8+5 weeks. More maintenance than the above, but may prove easier for some situations.

[Mr Adventurer]

And I got proven wrong super fast. There you go.

...if you expected to be wrong, why did you make such a declarative assertion? ಠ_ಠ

[MisterKaws]

...if you expected to be wrong, why did you make such a declarative assertion? ಠ_ಠ

Anything I post here is made with that expectation. It's how the playground works, I guess.

[Quertus]

So, I get Ring of Sustenance. Personally, I tended to just cycle through hosts, eating as necessary (if you made your save too often, you were of no use to me anyway, so you could starve for all I care). Bodies that didn't eat was a bonus.

Now, normally, I love the Spider Eater, but… What good does it do you to possess a paralyzed body? What trick am I missing?

[Segev]

What is the purpose of this "selection of bodies?" If it's just body-doubles for yourself, or the like, well-preserved zombies can be easily made to look still alive, and have -- int, and crappy will saves. Gentle repose does wonders for keeping them fairly fresh.

If you want some special properties of the living creatures' forms, then feeblemind is probably your best bet. It's not 0 mental stat, but 1 is all but crippled, and you can put them to some work maintaining themselves with the right minder.

[The Viscount]

So, I get Ring of Sustenance. Personally, I tended to just cycle through hosts, eating as necessary (if you made your save too often, you were of no use to me anyway, so you could starve for all I care). Bodies that didn't eat was a bonus.

Now, normally, I love the Spider Eater, but… What good does it do you to possess a paralyzed body? What trick am I missing?

I was assuming that you'd wait for it to be wearing off when you select them for possession. Certainly less optimal than reducing their stats, just including for completeness since it's mundane.

[Asmotherion]

Feeblemind+Ray of Stupidity.

Add some True Casting+Assay SR if you're worried about Spell Resistance.

Caution not to cast on Enchantment imune creatures (a lot of them exist).

Temporal Stasis to prevent it's damage to heal naturally. Not exactly cheap but still less costly than death and resurection.

i'd avoid using poisons for this effect since your DM may rule that the poison is still in the body and affects you when you possess them.

[Helluin]

Feeblemind+Ray of Stupidity.

Add some True Casting+Assay SR if you're worried about Spell Resistance.

Caution not to cast on Enchantment imune creatures (a lot of them exist).

Temporal Stasis to prevent it's damage to heal naturally. Not exactly cheap but still less costly than death and resurection.

i'd avoid using poisons for this effect since your DM may rule that the poison is still in the body and affects you when you possess them.

...but how would you possess a creature under Temporal Stasis? Even with a loose reading of “its condition becomes fixed” and “no force or effect can harm it”, how do you move around when you are stuck in a body in suspended animation?