A 400 HD undead?

[Voidstar01]

So with a 20th level turning class, the undead mastery feat, and a rod a death mastery from libris mortis. you can get a control pool of 400HD ((10x20)x2), I don't want to imagine moving all my theoretical minions around, so assuming I made a wish to automatically control the next 3 undead I attempt to, whats the biggest, best, Hit-Dice sponge of a boy could I control. Assume access to all spells (I assume by the time this ever comes up you've already raised a 20th spellcaster of each type) and feel free to use any sourcebook or dragon magazine. This is a completely ridiculous entirely theoretical question, if this was ever allowed to actually happen I think the necromancer who controls this wins DnD. (note: This is about a single undead, the reason I say 3 turning attempts is because I remember one spell from somewhere that gave the undead the fiendish template but freed it from your control)

[Kayblis]

Elder Titan is an Epic enemy with 70 HD. You can turn it into a 140HD Zombie. That's above everything you could need as a lv 20 necromancer.

From Dragon Mag #359, the Great Wyrm Time Dragon has 99HD, so it turns into a 198HD zombie. You could even ask for the Dragon Zombie template which is even better.

The hard part will be killing one of those, maybe Wish for a dead body.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A devastation vermin from the ELH has 128 HD. If you were to polymorph it into a Gargantuan giant and inflict it with devastation vermin entomanthropy, that doubles its HD to 256 and turns it into a giant that's actually a giant bug that can turn into a different giant bug. Feel free to inflict multiple types of entomanthropy on it for extra lulz.

[Crake]

Umm, guys, keep in mind, zombies cap at 20HD.

[Thurbane]

A fully advanced Hunefer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/hunefer.htm) of 71HD is Colossal; meaning the Multiheaded Template can add up to 29 heads (and therefore up to 58 extra HD).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A level 400 lich?

A level 400 necropolitan?

Or maybe a level 200 of each?

[MisterKaws]

Incarnate Construct Flesh Colossus Were-Devastation beetle would make zombies past your limit.

Though you need to use another template. Maybe Corpse Creature.

[hamishspence]

Umm, guys, keep in mind, zombies cap at 20HD.

Regular zombies, yes. Zombie dragons have no level cap (and no doubling of hit dice - a zombie dragon has the same number of hit dice that the living dragon did).

[Helluin]

Elder Titan is an Epic enemy with 70 HD. You can turn it into a 140HD Zombie. That's above everything you could need as a lv 20 necromancer.

From Dragon Mag #359, the Great Wyrm Time Dragon has 99HD, so it turns into a 198HD zombie. You could even ask for the Dragon Zombie template which is even better.

The hard part will be killing one of those, maybe Wish for a dead body.

Um, what about Vampiric Dragons? Then you’d get access to that sweet juicy epic spellcasting. Just gotta be sure to keep that thing always under control.

[DrMotives]

What does 400 HD of mindless meat bag even look like? The kaiju template, which is a tool to turn any monster into something from the Godzilla franchise, only adds 80 HD to a base creature. At 400 HD, you're looking at a thing that gets mistaken for a moon, or at least a continent.

[Asmotherion]

What does 400 HD of mindless meat bag even look like? The kaiju template, which is a tool to turn any monster into something from the Godzilla franchise, only adds 80 HD to a base creature. At 400 HD, you're looking at a thing that gets mistaken for a moon, or at least a continent.

-Atropus is that you? XD

[Quertus]

a control pool of 400HD ((10x20)x2), whats the biggest, best, Hit-Dice sponge of a boy could I control.

So, given infinite wishes (Simulacra of advanced HD Efteet), confirmation from the GM that "Turn the next undead" is a safe wish, what would i want, as a tank role?

Hmmm… Max HD, regenerating, self-healing - how about a Lich? Or a 30-headed Dracolich?

In 3e, IIRC, the Assassin Vine didn't have a HD cap, so (AFB) can you apply Zombie or Corpse template to get a 400 HD undead that way?

Really, I'd probably go for a Corpse creature of a 400th level Fighter ancestor.

[Biggus]

If web content is allowed, try a Gravewyrm, which can have up to 180HD, and conveniently has the dragon type:

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20040109a

[Thurbane]

Multiheaded Gravewyrm + undead template of your choice. You can get up to 238 HD.

[InvisibleBison]

Umm, guys, keep in mind, zombies cap at 20HD.

Not quite. Animate dead can't produce a zombie with more than 20 HD, but other methods, such as a mohrg's create spawn ability, have no such limitation.

[Thurbane]

Not quite. Animate dead can't produce a zombie with more than 20 HD, but other methods, such as a mohrg's create spawn ability, have no such limitation.

Well there you go. Have a Mohrg zombify a Multiheaded Gravewyrm and you can get your 400HD undead!

[RNightstalker]

Build a character up to 400 HD and choose to fail a saving throw from an attack that will respawn you?

[Biggus]

Not quite. Animate dead can't produce a zombie with more than 20 HD, but other methods, such as a mohrg's create spawn ability, have no such limitation.

As far as I know, the spell Plague of Undead (SpC) isn't bound by the HD restrictions on Animate Dead either.

[Thurbane]

So...just curious. How does one calculate CR for Zombies of more than 20HD? Is there an official table or ruling somewhere?

[StevenC21]

Well, you can always use the Advancing Monsters by Hit Dice tables, which say for every +4 Undead HD you add, the creature gets +1 CR. But that's obviously going to not work super well with these insane numbers.

[Bphill561]

And here I was happy with a fully advanced Legendary Tiger (SRD) with the warbeast template (MMII) I bought for under 4000gp... and then turned into a spectral creature. Not quite as big, but pretty good for 49 HD creature especially if your starting character is allowed to freely spend starting wealth and/or has magic mart access.

[Biggus]

Multiheaded Gravewyrm + undead template of your choice. You can get up to 238 HD.

So an 11-headed max-HD Gravewyrm would have 200HD...now you just need to find an 111th-level party and follow them around until they kill one. Simple!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

So an 11-headed max-HD Gravewyrm would have 200HD...now you just need to find an 111th-level party and follow them around until they kill one. Simple!Is there a version of lycanthropy that lets you shift into a dragon? Because that's when you polymorph the gravetouched wyrm into a giant or something, then add the draconocanthropy (or whatever) to double its HD.

Or just add 200 levels in casting classes.

[Mato]

then add the draconocanthropy (or whatever) to double its HD.You have my curiosity.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You have my curiosity.You can already do that with animals (lycanthropy) and bugs (entomanthropy). I'd love to see other creature types, as well.

Though I suppose a dragon druid with enough levels and various wild shape feats or class features (Dragon Wild Shape, et al) could turn into a dragon that way. Or a dragon with higher level casting than normal + polymorph. Or the familiar of a master with the changeling wizard ACF and the Draconic Familiar feat.

It just seems like a wasted opportunity if it's not possible.

[Mato]

then add the draconocanthropy (or whatever) to double its HD.You have my curiosity.You can already do that with animals (lycanthropy) and bugs (entomanthropy). I'd love to see other creature types, as well.:smallconfused: -thropy adds a specific creature's base hit dice to another. Unless you use a questionable set of excuses to inflict a creature with it's self and through sheer coincidence that X & Y happen to be the same value, you are never "doubling" anything.

But you're not the only person in this thread that assumes you can just double the HD of anything by turning it into a zombie. You have my curiosity of how this is possible.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

:smallconfused: -thropy adds a specific creature's base hit dice to another. Unless you use a questionable set of excuses to inflict a creature with it's self and through sheer coincidence that X & Y happen to be the same value, you are never "doubling" anything.

But you're not the only person in this thread that assumes you can just double the HD of anything by turning it into a zombie. You have my curiosity of how this is possible.Take a T-Rex. Polymorph into a giant. Infect it with T-Rex lycanthropy. Voila, double HD.

[Celestia]

Is there a version of lycanthropy that lets you shift into a dragon?
There is now. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?594680-Dracanthropy-Template)

[Thurbane]

Were-Battletitan adds 36HD, if we are going down the lycanthrope road. A Geriviar giant has 26 HD.

[Quertus]

you're not the only person in this thread that assumes you can just double the HD of anything by turning it into a zombie.

How is this an assumption? AFB, but isn't that how the zombie template works? :smallconfused:

[Mato]

How is this an assumption? AFB, but isn't that how the zombie template works? :smallconfused:Sort of, that's why people were talking about animate dead's cap and the work around of plague of undead. They also mentioned the dragon zombie, and later, the correction about that template not doubling HD.

But I was curious about the -thropy discussion. Which apparently really is based on questionable set of excuses to inflict a creature with it's self while under a temporary spell effect. And whether or not a creature can even keep an affliction the creature is immune to, and tries to apply a template that cannot be applied to the creature, when spell ends.

[ShurikVch]

Goristro - demon from FC 1: Hordes of the Abyss - have no HD cap: "It's unclear whether goristros have a maximum size"; Bjornganal is 95 HD and 200' tall

The Sphinx - [Epic] Golem from Dragon #297 - may be advanced up to 750 HD

If Immortal's Handbook is acceptable, then Orichalcum Sentinel may be advanced up to 750 HD too (while being Gargantuan - unlike the Sphinx, which is Colossal)