Way of the Broken-Winged Crane [Monk Archetype/Redux]

[Amechra]

Since I've been generally going through and streamlining my old stuff, I decided to give this old brute (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?517693-Bloody-Scarred-and-Unbroken-Monk-Subclass) a touch-up. Enjoy and PEACH, if you would.

Way of the Broken-Winged Crane [Monastic Tradition]

3 :- Carving Out Weakness
Your training has left you horrifically scarred and broken in an attempt to make it stronger. You gain additional Monk hit-dice equal to your Wisdom modifier. At 11th level, you may roll a d10 instead of one of your Monk hit-dice. At 17th level, you may roll a d12 instead.

3 :- Body-Shattering Practices
Whenever you would roll your Martial Arts die, you may spend one of your Monk hit-dice and roll it instead. In addition, you may spend Monk hit-dice instead of ki points on a one-for-one basis.

6 :- Pain-Ignoring Shrug
Whenever you are hit by an attack, you may spend your reaction to grit through the pain. If you do, roll your Martial Arts die, add your Wisdom modifier, and gain that many temporary hit-points. If the attack was a melee attack, you may spend 1 ki point to make an unarmed strike against the creature who attacked you.

11 :- Grace Through Agony
You have resistance to Psychic damage. Whenever you meditate to regain ki points, you also recover a single hit-die.

17 :- God-Smashing Blows
Creatures who are required to make saving throws due to an attack using one of your hit-dice have disadvantage on their roll.



Body-Shattering Practices might be a bit too strong, but it's also very high cost if you try to abuse it. God-Smashing Blows is worded the way it is because it's supposed to work with stuff like disarming people or any maneuvers you might pick up in addition to Stunning Strike.

Way of the Broken-Winged Crane [Monastic Tradition]

3 :- Carving Out Weakness
Your training has left you horrifically scarred and broken in an attempt to make it stronger. You gain proficiency in Intimidation if you didn't already have it, and you gain additional Monk hit-dice equal to your Wisdom modifier.

3 :- Fist-Shattering Practices
You may spend hit-dice in place of ki points on a one-for-one basis - if you do, roll those hit-dice and take that much Psychic damage.

6 :- Pain-Ignoring Shrug
You may spend an additional ki point to use Deflect Missiles on melee weapon attack made against you - if you choose to catch it, you rip the weapon from the wielder's grip unless they succeed on a Strength save. If they fail the save, you may spend 1 ki point to counterattack as normal.

11 :- Grace Through Agony
You gain resistance to Psychic damage. Whenever you meditate to regain ki points, you also recover a single hit-die.

17 :- God-Stopping Blows
Whenever a creature succeeds on their saving throw against Pain-Ignoring Shrug or Stunning Strike, you may spend a ki point and a hit-die to force that creature to reroll their saving throw. If you do, roll that hit-die and deal that much Psychic damage to that creature.



I'm not actually sure how good this subclass is, in all honesty. On the one hand, you effectively have a much bigger ki pool than other Monks, but on the other hand, you're taking not-insignificant damage if you use that ki, and it eats into your short-rest healing to boot. I'm a bit concerned that Mind Blank kinda breaks the subclass, but since you otherwise need to be a Kalashtar to get any kind of resistance to Psychic damage, I think it should be fine.

Oh, and I'll accept alternatives to God-Stopping Blows - it is kinda insane, but it burns through both of your resources like crazy.

[Composer99]

Since I've been generally going through and streamlining my old stuff, I decided to give this old brute (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?517693-Bloody-Scarred-and-Unbroken-Monk-Subclass) a touch-up. Enjoy and PEACH, if you would.

Way of the Broken-Winged Crane [Monastic Tradition]


Let's have a look-see!

One thing to note: this subclass doesn't have anything that sets it apart from other monks at 3rd level. It gets bonus Hit Dice and the ability to substitute Hit Dice for ki points, so it can... monk more than other monks, but it doesn't monk differently than them (except insofar as they can do stuff that it can't courtesy of their own subclass features). That might be well and good, but it is something to keep in mind.

In fact, now I read through all of it a few times... it doesn't really do a lot different from other monks. Pain-Ignoring Shrug is its only distinct feature. God-Stopping Blows is an improvement on existing features rather than adding a new tool to the toolkit. Again, that might be well and good, but it is worth noting.


3 :- Carving Out Weakness
Your training has left you horrifically scarred and broken in an attempt to make it stronger. You gain proficiency in Intimidation if you didn't already have it, and you gain additional Monk hit-dice equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Very potent at low levels - you're likely to have 175% the Hit Dice of other monks! - less so at higher levels, although even at 20th level, with a Wisdom of 20 you'll have 125% the Hit Dice of other monks.


3 :- Fist-Shattering Practices
You may spend hit-dice in place of ki points on a one-for-one basis - if you do, roll those hit-dice and take that much Psychic damage.

Honestly, I feel like burning through a resource that partly renews on a long rest and is part of your hit point recovery is already enough: adding psychic damage on top is just too much. If you're worried about the lack of psychic damage leading to the subclass being overpowered, you could either reduce the additional Hit Dice you gain (to, say, two), or remove the additional Hit Dice entirely.

If you want to still have the monk take some damage, I would suggest it work like overchannel or similar effects: you take necrotic damage that ignores resistance or immunity, instead of psychic damage. That seems to be more in keeping with the theme of expending your own life-force, in a way that psychic damage isn't. Also, there isn't the weird interaction with your resistance to psychic damage later. If you did something like this, I would suggest dealing 1d4 necrotic damage per Hit Die spent, or a flat 1 or 2 damage per Die.


6 :- Pain-Ignoring Shrug
You may spend an additional ki point to use Deflect Missiles on melee weapon attack made against you - if you choose to catch it, you rip the weapon from the wielder's grip unless they succeed on a Strength save. If they fail the save, you may spend 1 ki point to counterattack as normal.

I like this ability. I'm not entirely sure it should be coming online at 6th level, but I really like it.

I'd be inclined to just spell this ability out rather than refer to Deflect Missiles. Also, I would probably specify a range limit (5 feet, say), and I'd be inclined to suggest that it not allow you to take two-handed weapons.


11 :- Grace Through Agony
You gain resistance to Psychic damage. Whenever you meditate to regain ki points, you also recover a single hit-die.

This is fine.


17 :- God-Stopping Blows
Whenever a creature succeeds on their saving throw against Pain-Ignoring Shrug or Stunning Strike, you may spend a ki point and a hit-die to force that creature to reroll their saving throw. If you do, roll that hit-die and deal that much Psychic damage to that creature.

This is fine. I would not go so far as to say it is insane, when some of the prevailing alternatives include 9th level spells or Quivering Palm.




I'm not actually sure how good this subclass is, in all honesty. On the one hand, you effectively have a much bigger ki pool than other Monks, but on the other hand, you're taking not-insignificant damage if you use that ki, and it eats into your short-rest healing to boot. I'm a bit concerned that Mind Blank kinda breaks the subclass, but since you otherwise need to be a Kalashtar to get any kind of resistance to Psychic damage, I think it should be fine.

Oh, and I'll accept alternatives to God-Stopping Blows - it is kinda insane, but it burns through both of your resources like crazy.

It's pretty strong having a long-rest pool of pseudo-ki, but considering you're burning through your personal healing resources, and considering you only get half of them back each time you finish a long rest... it's not overpowered.

If anything, since the subclass' shtick is "monk more", but it doesn't get any other offensive shticks, it might be a little bit undertuned. Mind you, if you do add some offensive shticks, you'd likely need to tone down the "monk more than other monks" aspect.

[Amechra]

Let's have a look-see!

I would like to preface my response by thanking you for what might possibly be the most in-depth critique I've gotten in literal years.


One thing to note: this subclass doesn't have anything that sets it apart from other monks at 3rd level. It gets bonus Hit Dice and the ability to substitute Hit Dice for ki points, so it can... monk more than other monks, but it doesn't monk differently than them (except insofar as they can do stuff that it can't courtesy of their own subclass features). That might be well and good, but it is something to keep in mind.

In fact, now I read through all of it a few times... it doesn't really do a lot different from other monks. Pain-Ignoring Shrug is its only distinct feature. God-Stopping Blows is an improvement on existing features rather than adding a new tool to the toolkit. Again, that might be well and good, but it is worth noting.

Originally, there were some more distinctive features - you could use your hit-dice in place of your Martial Arts die, your hit-die scaled as you gained levels (to a max of d12s at 17th level), and there was an "ignore being incapacitated" feature at higher levels. Unfortunately, I couldn't get them to work the way I wanted to, so I set them aside.


Very potent at low levels - you're likely to have 175% the Hit Dice of other monks! - less so at higher levels, although even at 20th level, with a Wisdom of 20 you'll have 125% the Hit Dice of other monks.

Since the idea behind the subclass is that you're burning through hit-dice faster than other Monks, I thought that they could do with a few more.


Honestly, I feel like burning through a resource that partly renews on a long rest and is part of your hit point recovery is already enough: adding psychic damage on top is just too much. If you're worried about the lack of psychic damage leading to the subclass being overpowered, you could either reduce the additional Hit Dice you gain (to, say, two), or remove the additional Hit Dice entirely.

If you want to still have the monk take some damage, I would suggest it work like overchannel or similar effects: you take necrotic damage that ignores resistance or immunity, instead of psychic damage. That seems to be more in keeping with the theme of expending your own life-force, in a way that psychic damage isn't. Also, there isn't the weird interaction with your resistance to psychic damage later. If you did something like this, I would suggest dealing 1d4 necrotic damage per Hit Die spent, or a flat 1 or 2 damage per Die.

I honestly can't remember why I decided to make it Psychic damage. It actually is supposed to interact normally with the Psychic resistance you get at 11th - halving the damage seemed pretty OK. I do hear you regarding the damage being too much. I'll tinker with it - I might end up dropping the damage entirely.


I like this ability. I'm not entirely sure it should be coming online at 6th level, but I really like it.

I'd be inclined to just spell this ability out rather than refer to Deflect Missiles. Also, I would probably specify a range limit (5 feet, say), and I'd be inclined to suggest that it not allow you to take two-handed weapons.

Fair enough - I was just a bit lazy, and didn't want to write it all up. I might actually move this up to 11th level, and replace it with something a little less "I am become tank, blocker of strikes".


This is fine.

That's good to hear - I was waffling back and forth a bit on this one.


This is fine. I would not go so far as to say it is insane, when some of the prevailing alternatives include 9th level spells or Quivering Palm.

The reason I said that it's insane is that technically you can just keep spamming the "fail the save" button if they keep succeeding - I didn't give it an action cost for that very reason.


It's pretty strong having a long-rest pool of pseudo-ki, but considering you're burning through your personal healing resources, and considering you only get half of them back each time you finish a long rest... it's not overpowered.

If anything, since the subclass' shtick is "monk more", but it doesn't get any other offensive shticks, it might be a little bit undertuned. Mind you, if you do add some offensive shticks, you'd likely need to tone down the "monk more than other monks" aspect.

The original subclass had a bit more of a "forbidden technique" feel, since you eventually got the ability to punch people's arms clean off and the like, on top of pushing yourself past reasonable physical limitations. I think I'll try working that back in.

[Composer99]

The original subclass had a bit more of a "forbidden technique" feel, since you eventually got the ability to punch people's arms clean off and the like, on top of pushing yourself past reasonable physical limitations. I think I'll try working that back in.

Thanks for the clarification on the subclass capstone. I hadn't spotted the lack of use limit, or at least didn't think on it enough. I'm still not sure I'd quite consider it insane, since as I noted all it does is make the things you already do better, and at a pretty hefty cost.

I like the idea of "forbidden techniques". I guess the idea is that the monk is able to learn and use them on account of having pushed past normal physical limits. Granted, Quivering Palm also comes across as a bit of a "forbidden technique", so you'd have to come up with something different, at whatever level you introduce such techniques.

If you want to keep things relatively simple, which I imagine follows reasonably from the goal of streamlining past work, I suppose the techniques could give you ways to inflict conditions such as blinded, paralysed, or poisoned, which I don't think other monk subclasses currently have on offer. Since so many things have immunity to the poisoned condition, you could instead have the effect of that condition (disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks) without actually inflicting the condition itself.

One big question is, do you want to start introducing "forbidden techniques" at 3rd level, so the Broken-Winged Crane monk already distinguishes itself from other monks in a way other than "looks scary and monks for longer at a cost"? And if so, what if anything gets removed or pushed aside?

As far as ribbons go, maybe this monk should be better than other monks at Athletics/Acrobatics somewhere in there?

[Amechra]

Thanks for the clarification on the subclass capstone. I hadn't spotted the lack of use limit, or at least didn't think on it enough. I'm still not sure I'd quite consider it insane, since as I noted all it does is make the things you already do better, and at a pretty hefty cost.

I like the idea of "forbidden techniques". I guess the idea is that the monk is able to learn and use them on account of having pushed past normal physical limits. Granted, Quivering Palm also comes across as a bit of a "forbidden technique", so you'd have to come up with something different, at whatever level you introduce such techniques.

If you want to keep things relatively simple, which I imagine follows reasonably from the goal of streamlining past work, I suppose the techniques could give you ways to inflict conditions such as blinded, paralysed, or poisoned, which I don't think other monk subclasses currently have on offer. Since so many things have immunity to the poisoned condition, you could instead have the effect of that condition (disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks) without actually inflicting the condition itself.

One big question is, do you want to start introducing "forbidden techniques" at 3rd level, so the Broken-Winged Crane monk already distinguishes itself from other monks in a way other than "looks scary and monks for longer at a cost"? And if so, what if anything gets removed or pushed aside?

As far as ribbons go, maybe this monk should be better than other monks at Athletics/Acrobatics somewhere in there?

On the topic of forbidden techniques, I'm toying with the idea of weird maneuver-style abilities that are fueled off of ki + hit-dice instead of a pool of additional abilities. I did think a bit about inflicting conditions (Petrified was one of them), but I couldn't figure out a satisfying balance. I'm not sure I want them to be better at Acrobatics, exactly - my visual is that they're the kind of martial-arts freak who isn't particularly slowed down by physical injury.

I put up an interim version that's pretty much just damage focused, mostly to try out a concept (rolling hit-dice in place of Martial Arts dice). I might end up making that their schtick instead of using hit-dice as ki... but, again, I'm a bit unsure about it. Man, this is a tricky one - I keep feeling like I'm either doing too much or not enough.