[3.5] Invocations Without Warlock or DFA

[Thurbane]

Just a thought exercise really: are there any ways to get invocations without levels in Warlock or Dragonfire Adept?

AFAIK, there are prestige classes that advance invocations, but none that grant them outright?

There is the Codex Advocare in EtCR, but even with UMD, I don't think it would allow use of an invocation.

Are there any races or creatures that get invocations?

Are there classes or PrCs that mimic class abilities? I know Factotum gets something like this, but wouldn't work with Invocations?

Illithid Savant to eat Warlock/DFA brains?

As a temporary option, Spellthief, Ur-Priest or Hellbreaker to steal SLAs?

Not for any practical purpose, just a thought exercise.

Cheers - T

[Troacctid]

Dragon shaman is the only way, short of stealing SLAs as you mentioned.

[Rijan_Sai]

While not strictly "RAW," there is enough leeway in the Adaptation section of the Chameleon PrC that it might allow for making an Aptitude Focus: Invocation Focus, or something similar. Maybe?

[Thurbane]

Dragon shaman is the only way, short of stealing SLAs as you mentioned.

Good call - I totally forgot that DS can swap out an aura for an Invocation.

[Troacctid]

I mean, technically, enlightened spirit grants invocations without advancing them, but you need to already have invocations in order to qualify, so it doesn't count IMO.

[Bphill561]

The last listing of the non-xp things you can do with a miracle spell let's you copy abilites of a similar power level to the things listed above. The invocations have spell level equivalents, so long as they are 7th level or lower they can be copied. Similar to shadow mysteries and truename magic.

For invocations there are not a huge number of new things that miracle cannot already duplicate from spells, but there are many 24 hour effects.

[DrMotives]

MMV has the Ethereal Defiler, which can use eldritch blast for 6d6. If it gains Warlock levels, the damage for EB stacks with it's racial ability. Warlock DR also stacks with natural DR.

[Asmotherion]

Well not invocations Per Say but:

There's a Ritual (Ritual of the Dark Flames) in Lords of Darkness that gives you a 10-foot Ranged Touch Beam that deals d6/HD negative energy at the cost of Wis Damage. Very Similar to the Hellfire Blast. The other two Rituals also grand benefits similar to invocations. Spur Lord Prc gives the same except it costs no Wis damage and is capped at 15d6.

You can also Persist Spells; A persistant Spell is similar to an invocation because both are available 24 hours.

Finally i suppose you could Dominate Person a Warlock and have his invocations available for yourself.

[ShurikVch]

Ideas from the Savage Species:
Symbiotic Creature with Warlock as the "guest"
Emancipated Spawn PrC - ex-Warlock

Dragon Magic have Dragon Descendant PrC, which Eldritch Ancestor CF (IMO) is very similar to the Eldritch Blast

[Psyren]

If you mentally consider "invocation" to be equivalent to "at-will SLA" I think the options increase considerably.

[Rijan_Sai]

The last listing of the non-xp things you can do with a miracle spell let's you copy abilites of a similar power level to the things listed above. The invocations have spell level equivalents, so long as they are 7th level or lower they can be copied. Similar to shadow mysteries and truename magic.

For invocations there are not a huge number of new things that miracle cannot already duplicate from spells, but there are many 24 hour effects.

Aaaannnd you've just given me new ideas for my (future) Killer Gnome! Thanks for that!

[Thurbane]

Great food for thought everyone!


MMV has the Ethereal Defiler, which can use eldritch blast for 6d6. If it gains Warlock levels, the damage for EB stacks with it's racial ability. Warlock DR also stacks with natural DR.

The only other creature I know of with EB is the Aspect of Chernovog (EtCR p.89). He gets 5d6 EB, plus Beshadowed Blast, Frightful Blast, Hideous Blow and Eldritch Chain.

Fun fact: I only accidentally discovered this morning that Chernovog appears to be based on real world mythology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobog); which is also the basis of the giant demon in Fantasia (https://gl-images.condecdn.net/image/qa03AYeg27E/crop/1620/f/chernabog_L.jpg).

[ShurikVch]

One very roundabout way: Spellhoarding Dragon use their Spellcatching to get some Invocations into their Spellhoard; if you still need them as a SLA rather than spells, there are some options to turn spell into SLA - such as Innate Spell feat

[DrMotives]

Fun fact: I only accidentally discovered this morning that Chernovog appears to be based on real world mythology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobog); which is also the basis of the giant demon in Fantasia (https://gl-images.condecdn.net/image/qa03AYeg27E/crop/1620/f/chernabog_L.jpg).

Chernovog is also a character in American Gods. He's the old man who talks about killing steer with a hammer in the meat processing plant. And in Bayonetta 2, his big hammer is one of the weapons you can get. He gets around in pop culture, at least a little bit.

[ShurikVch]

Chernovog is also a character in American Gods. He's the old man who talks about killing steer with a hammer in the meat processing plant. And in Bayonetta 2, his big hammer is one of the weapons you can get. He gets around in pop culture, at least a little bit.Also, Tchernobog (https://blood-wiki.org/index.php/Tchernobog) in the Blood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_(video_game))

[Bphill561]

Aaaannnd you've just given me new ideas for my (future) Killer Gnome! Thanks for that!

Flood of Shadows is a mystery that adds empower to shadow spells. There is also a true name ability to rebuild a destroyed item. I have been tempted to start a new thread on things to copy with miracle along these lines since I have not seen anything before.

Again though as far as invocations go, there is not too much you cannot already replicate through other spell emulation.

[Thurbane]

May be a stupid question, but what happens if you enter a PrC that advances Invocations, using Dragon Shaman as entry? I assume there's nothing for the PrC to advance, since DS is limited to only one invocation?

[MisterKaws]

May be a stupid question, but what happens if you enter a PrC that advances Invocations, using Dragon Shaman as entry? I assume there's nothing for the PrC to advance, since DS is limited to only one invocation?

yep, though if you get Eldritch Blast from Ethereal Defiler, you could then take Enlightened Spirit. Not sure why you'd do that at ECL 30, but maybe you got some magical build strategy.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

May be a stupid question, but what happens if you enter a PrC that advances Invocations, using Dragon Shaman as entry? I assume there's nothing for the PrC to advance, since DS is limited to only one invocation?

Yeah, I can't imagine it going otherwise RAW. (Okay, that's a lie, I'm sure WotC has written rules that allow loopholes like that before). Precedent is against it, with even creatures that have native casting needing an actual level in that casting class for prestige classes to advance it. I doubt it would be possible to advance an invocation class you don't have any levels in (and while advancing Dragon Shaman with the prestige class would be possible, it wouldn't actually give you any more invocations).

[Thurbane]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the PrCs that advance invocations aren't as open to shenanigans as something like Anima Mage is (there is an argument that if you qualify for Am with feats, the levels of the PrC give you effective Binder levels, even if you have no levels in Binder).