Powerful Build = Large Size?

[Solenum]

So Powerful Build means that the character in question is considered a Large size category creature for a number of instances.

A Fullblade, with the EWP feat can be wielded one handed by a large creature.

My question is; could a Goliath, with proper feat(s) end up dual-wielding Fullblades?

I suppose ultimately it would be up to a DM to allow it, but I'd like to hear some thoughts on it.

[pabelfly]

So Powerful Build means that the character in question is considered a Large size category creature for a number of instances.

A Fullblade, with the EWP feat can be wielded one handed by a large creature.

My question is; could a Goliath, with proper feat(s) end up dual-wielding Fullblades?

I suppose ultimately it would be up to a DM to allow it, but I'd like to hear some thoughts on it.

If I were DMing, I'd let you do it with some serious penalties - you'd get the normal -2/-2 with the Oversized TWF feat. Not quite RAW since Powerful Build doesn't take weapons into account, but I'd let it pass.

[Buufreak]

Absolutely. It ends up being very feat intensive, but I've actually played this exact thing for an arena setting. You'll want all the twf feats, as well as oversized twf to reduce the penalties.

[AnimeTheCat]

I mean... powerful build specifically says a character can wield weapons a size category higher without penalty so... yes. To all of the above. Two weapon fighting, oversized two weapon fighting, exotic weapon proficiency: fullblade. Boom, level 1 fighter dual wielding fullblades. -2/-2 penalty each so somewhere in the realm of +2/+2 attack bonuses after strength and BAB? Ideally more.

[Buufreak]

I mean... powerful build specifically says a character can wield weapons a size category higher without penalty so... yes. To all of the above. Two weapon fighting, oversized two weapon fighting, exotic weapon proficiency: fullblade. Boom, level 1 fighter dual wielding fullblades. -2/-2 penalty each so somewhere in the realm of +2/+2 attack bonuses after strength and BAB? Ideally more.

1 bab, and goliath has racial +4 str. With even moderate investment, you are swinging +4/+4.

[AnimeTheCat]

1 bab, and goliath has racial +4 str. With even moderate investment, you are swinging +4/+4.

Ok, so that then either way, plenty good for ECL 2 (+1 LA on goliath right?)

[Buufreak]

Ok, so that then either way, plenty good for ECL 2 (+1 LA on goliath right?)

Correct. As far as +1 goes, it's kinda hard to be goliath on melee mundane builds.

[Hish]

You can do that without issue. You can also use large bastard swords. For a goliath, large bastard swords are the same as fullblades, but you don't have to use the weird 3.0 weapon size system with 3.5 rules.
Or you can skip the exotic weapons entirely and use large longswords or similar. You save a feat and only lose out on 2 points of damage.

Whatever you end up doing, you'll definitely want Oversized TWF so you don't take huge attack penalties.

[MisterKaws]

So... How do you guys intend to get three feats on a level 1 Goliath? Not like a DM will allow flaws, either.

[JNAProductions]

So... How do you guys intend to get three feats on a level 1 Goliath? Not like a DM will allow flaws, either.

Why wouldn't a DM allow flaws?

[Buufreak]

So... How do you guys intend to get three feats on a level 1 Goliath? Not like a DM will allow flaws, either.

I'm not. You can't exactly afford 2 full blades and armor at 1.

[Elkad]

I'm not. You can't exactly afford 2 full blades and armor at 1.

Sure you can. Just not right out of your starting village. Buy one fullblade, loot armor off an enemy, haul some loot back to town and buy the 2nd fullblade. 2-3 encounters.
Or get a loan from the rest of the party.


At 1st level, I'm likely to spend most of my cash on supplies, not arms and armor. A quarterstaff and a sling are free will likely get me through the first encounter. Now I have armor and weapons.

[Mr Adventurer]

Rats in cellars don't have armour or weapons! ;)

[AnimeTheCat]

So... How do you guys intend to get three feats on a level 1 Goliath? Not like a DM will allow flaws, either.

well I intend on doing so by thinking I'm playing a Human, bending the rules to my will within my head, and projecting my mental state on to the game world! How you You intend to do it?! /s

I just misspoke. Level 2 goliath it is lol. Large Longswords is possible at lvl 1 though, as someone else pointed out.

[Mr Adventurer]

In one of the Faerûn books there are rules for weapons made from magical gold, which require an extra EWP feat and deal damage as though they were a size category larger, because they are so heavy.

EDIT: I don't know Fullblades, but Bastard Sword → Large Bastard Sword → Gold Bastard Sword is two feats and deals 3d8 base damage each, I think.

[AnimeTheCat]

In one of the Faerûn books there are rules for weapons made from magical gold, which require an extra EWP feat and deal damage as though they were a size category larger, because they are so heavy.

According to the Special Materials Index (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?442820-Special-Materials-Index) that's in Magic of Faerun. Don't have the book available to me right now, so I can't provide a page number, but yeah.

Do you recall if you had to take a special EWP feat if the weapon already required EWP (such as bastard sword?).

Just thought about it, another (easier) way to dual wield 2 1d10 damage weapons would be to play a dwarf (dwarven waraxe is a martial weapon and deals 1d10 damage) Fighter, pick Two Weapon Fighting and Oversized Two Weapon Fighting at level 1 (for level 1 and first level fighter bonus feat). It's not large size, but is the same concept. As for the Goliath, yeah, looks like level 2 is the earliest without flaws. With flaws, level one (even if you didn't use Fighter). With flaws, any class *could* do it, though I would be weary of a goliath wizard looking to do that. Just seems strange to me.

[Mr Adventurer]

According to the Special Materials Index (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?442820-Special-Materials-Index) that's in Magic of Faerun. Don't have the book available to me right now, so I can't provide a page number, but yeah.

Do you recall if you had to take a special EWP feat if the weapon already required EWP (such as bastard sword?).


That's the one.

I don't recall, I don't think it was clear about it.

[MisterKaws]

Why wouldn't a DM allow flaws?

Because they have no sense of balance whatsoever?

In my experience DMs generally hate the entirety of UA, unless it's their own hand-picked sections.

[Buufreak]

Because they have no sense of balance whatsoever?

In my experience DMs generally hate the entirety of UA, unless it's their own hand-picked sections.

You aren't wrong, at least for my table. I'll occasionally try a single but from UA, but opening full book access is downright foolish.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Because they have no sense of balance whatsoever?

In my experience DMs generally hate the entirety of UA, unless it's their own hand-picked sections.

I'd allow flaws in any of my games, simply because I enjoy them so much as a player. It seems only fair, and they allow for weird character concepts coming online a lot more quickly. I would require actually meaningful ones, though. No Shaky on an ubercharger with flight without a real good backstory justification. Flaws like Arcane Performer, Honorable Challenge, or Slow Healing, though? Flavorful, come up often, and cool. I'd allow them.

[pabelfly]

I'll echo the sentiment of flaws being fun. I'm happy to have them when I DM.