Druid Farmers

[rmnimoc]

I'm getting ready to run a new campaign set a hundred years after a previous campaign set in ancient Greece. At the end of the last campaign, all the gods lost their divine powers and are living alongside mortals. I've gotten things set up for pretty much everyone but Demeter, but I'm kind of stumped as to what a community she's leading would look like. Her big thing is crops, so it makes sense they'd focus on agriculture and it makes sense she'd push for people to learn druidic magic.

So, my question: What exactly would a community of druid farmers look like? They've got a few hundred people levels 1-3, they've got 40 between the levels of 4-7, 20 between 8-10, 10 between 10-13, 1 at 15, and then Demeter herself as a level 20 druid.

Between someone who knows pretty much everything about farming and a host of druids helping them grow all the food they can, just how much could they grow (not necessarily hard numbers, guesses and comparisons are more helpful honestly), what would they be doing to reach that amount (what sort of spells could they use that would help with growing and farming food and how), and what sort of things would they want the help of adventurers for (are there any magical items that may help, any specific monsters or creatures that would either help or hinder them, anything they'd need to improve their yield they couldn't easily get themselves, etc.)? That kind of thing.

For all my experience DMing and playing druids, I've never really looked too deep into the nature side of things honestly and I'm not even sure where to look to find answers to these questions, so I figured I'd see if you guys had any ideas. Even if you don't have the specific information, if you've got any ideas where I could look to find it I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

[Luccan]

As for useful spells: Create or Destroy Water, Locate Animals or Plants (for weeding, though that seems wasteful. Maybe a low-powered version that specifically detects weeds), Druidcraft can cause seeds to pop open and individual buds to bloom, Call Lightning arguably causes rain, Plant Growth (the 8 hour version) causes a double yield for all crops in the area of effect for a year, Control Water for irrigation, Move Earth could potentially help rotate soil, Antipathy could help protect from potential intelligent predators if they have a heads up on it. There's also a host of animal specific spells if they raise livestock (and any healing spells would help keep that livestock alive) and they can also keep wild animals from messing too much with crops. Proper application and they could easily produce dozens of times that of any other similarly sized settlement, if not more. With every citizen having access to Goodberry, they will have more than they could ever possibly need, but even without it they'll never get through all the food. This might make them a trading powerhouse, since it costs them almost nothing to produce so much food.

I think there might be a staff or something in Xanathar's that promotes growth? Not super powerful, but might make a good basis for an upgraded version. Perhaps someone lay a powerful curse on the crops and the PCs must travel to an ancient spring (perhaps one sacred to Demeter in her days as a goddess) and recover just a little of the water to cure the fields.

Blights might make a good monster. Sure, Demeter is an agricultural goddess, but in ancient times there was significantly less distance and distinction between where people were settled and the wild. I mean, there was obvious distinction, but chances are wolves and beasts didn't live too far from town. So a Gulthias tree spawning evil, corrupting plantlife could be a big problem for a group of druids. Maybe they have a vast orchard and so actually finding the source of these creatures is a pain. There is a problem with a monster-based threat, though. Blights are low, low level creatures. And even thousands of them potentially aren't going to stack up versus a 20th level druid, her mid-level posse, and some basic planning. Do you have reasons for the gods to not be dealing with most significant threats? Even the level 15 druid and a couple 10-13 level ones will be able to deal with most problems faced on a regular basis.

You're best off making the problem one that requires travelling a good distance away to solve. That way there's at least some reason the high level NPCs don't handle it (they'd leave the village unprotected from more powerful threats, including the other gods). The trouble with having NPCs this high level is, well, they're still basically gods. So you're gonna have to work around that.

Edit: Aaaand I just realized this is the 3.5 subforum, not the 5e one. Some spells might still work, maybe not all of them. The rest you can ignore. Except that last bit, a level 20 caster is basically a god compared to normal people, especially in 3.5. It's hard to justify them not solving most/all the problems of one village, if that's all they care about.

[DrMotives]

She's mainly about farming, but she also has one thing in her portfolio that she borrowed from her son-in-law; Wealth. The fat of the land includes riches, which is why when Demeter, Aphrodite, and Athena all bribed Paris to get him to give the winner the Golden Apple, Demeter's bribe to Paris was vast amounts of money. (Athena offered victory in warfare, Aphrodite offered a mortal woman of his choice. Paris choose the last bribe, took Helen, and started the Trojan War.)

[rmnimoc]

She's mainly about farming, but she also has one thing in her portfolio that she borrowed from her son-in-law; Wealth. The fat of the land includes riches, which is why when Demeter, Aphrodite, and Athena all bribed Paris to get him to give the winner the Golden Apple, Demeter's bribe to Paris was vast amounts of money. (Athena offered victory in warfare, Aphrodite offered a mortal woman of his choice. Paris choose the last bribe, took Helen, and started the Trojan War.)

I've never heard that story with Demeter, I've only heard it with Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite. Hera offered to make him king of Europe, Athena offered him wisdom and skill in battle, and Aphrodite offered him another dude's wife.

I've also never heard of her being the goddess of wealth. Sure, she gave birth to Plutus (maybe, he's also described as the child of Hades and Persephone) but the things he does don't seem to be linked to her in any story I've seen. The only things Demeter has, far as I know, is Farming, Law, and sometimes the whole circle of life thing.

[Psyren]

Chauntea from Forgotten Realms is pretty closely modeled on Demeter so I would look at some of the communities that worship her (regardless of edition) for inspiration.

Note that full-blown druids and clerics are actually pretty rare in D&D terms, even for a nature deity in a rural setting. Most of her followers are going to be commoners, experts and a few adepts - and they'll be tending their crops the old-fashioned way for the most part, with water/soil/sweat. This isn't to say magic won't be used - just that there are more indirect ways to help the crops than what you're probably envisioning. It'll be stuff like using cantrips to water them if the rain is scarce (create/purify water) or a local source has become contaminated, buffing and healing the peasants who are defending the field and livestock (remember, D&D settings are dangerous, especially outside of towns!), running off pests and infestations, and curing diseases before they can spread to the crop.

The true clerics and druids will most likely be engaged as adventurers (or working with same) to deal with more preternatural threats - rival faiths of blight and decay, humanoid raiders, various monsters, or natural disasters.

[AnimeTheCat]

Why not just use the DMG to populate the community?


Hamlet - Pop 372
Nonstandard Power Center - Absolute Divine Monarchy
Power Center Alignment - True Neutral (Demeter's Alignment)
Constable - Highest Level Warrior
Guards/Soldiers - 3 full-time guards, 18 Militia
Highest Level Characters of each Class:
Adept 6 (1 lvl 3)
Aristocrat 4
Commoner 7 (2x lvl 3, 288x lvl 1)
Expert 7 (2x lvl 3, 7x lvl 1)
Warrior 6 (2x lvl 3, 13x lvl 1)

Barbarian 2 (2x lvl 1)
Bard 2 (2x lvl 1)
Cleric 5 (2x lvl 2, 4x lvl 1)
Druid 3 (2x Lvl 1) AND (1 lvl 20 - Demeter)
Fighter 5 (2x lvl 2, 4x lvl 1)
Monk 1
Paladin 1
Ranger 3 (2x Lvl 1)
Rogue 6 (2x lvl 3, 4x lvl 1)
Sorcerer 2 (2x lvl 1)
Wizard 2 (2x lvl 1)

At your option you can change the clerics and druids, or combine them all to druids, but a blend is not bad. Have them venerate Demeter and take a mix of the Earth, Plant, and Protection domains (leaning more heavily on Plant and Earth for a more druidic/Agrculture focused feel).

Mixed Community:
79% Human (293 citizens)
9% Halfling (33 Citizens)
5% Elf (18 Citizens)
3% Dwarf (12 Citizens)
2% Gnome (7 Citizens)
1% Half-Elf (4 Citizens)
1% Half-Orc (4 Citizens)
<1% Deity (1 Citizen)

There you go, a community of 372 fully populated with all the various classes with a good spread of variety (courtesy of DMG pages 137-139).

[Blackhawk748]

They are going to be ludicrously effective st farming. Plant Growth will let their crop yields probably triple or more and cut the time probably in half. However, they would have to work out a way to fertilize the ground from the rapid leeching of nutrients.

I'm AFB right now but I'm sure there's a spell that could do it

[rmnimoc]

Chauntea from Forgotten Realms is pretty closely modeled on Demeter so I would look at some of the communities that worship her (regardless of edition) for inspiration.

Note that full-blown druids and clerics are actually pretty rare in D&D terms, even for a nature deity in a rural setting. Most of her followers are going to be commoners, experts and a few adepts - and they'll be tending their crops the old-fashioned way for the most part, with water/soil/sweat. This isn't to say magic won't be used - just that there are more indirect ways to help the crops than what you're probably envisioning. It'll be stuff like using cantrips to water them if the rain is scarce (create/purify water) or a local source has become contaminated, buffing and healing the peasants who are defending the field and livestock (remember, D&D settings are dangerous, especially outside of towns!), running off pests and infestations, and curing diseases before they can spread to the crop.

The true clerics and druids will most likely be engaged as adventurers (or working with same) to deal with more preternatural threats - rival faiths of blight and decay, humanoid raiders, various monsters, or natural disasters.
Normally that'd be the case, and it probably was for the first few decades, but each god started up their own thing with their most devoted followers and my version of Demeter would totally be willing to teach the people near her on a day to day basis nature magic so they can better help her with her goal of growing all the things and they'd have to be pretty poor followers to not listen. Over the century everyone there has either learned to be a druid or is learning to be a druid while still helping how they can (every god has some absurd feat they've got to achieve in order to get their godhood back based on what they were know for, for Demeter that involves a harvest on a massive scale). Since this isn't really a generic D&D world for the most part things aren't too dangerous (yet) and monsters and bandits are an exception rather than the rule.

I hadn't even thought about crop diseases, that's totally the kind of thing I was look at ng for, something that was probably a major issue that they can rather easily solve with the resources at their disposal.


Why not just use the DMG to populate the community?


Hamlet - Pop 372
Nonstandard Power Center - Absolute Divine Monarchy
Power Center Alignment - True Neutral (Demeter's Alignment)
Constable - Highest Level Warrior
Guards/Soldiers - 3 full-time guards, 18 Militia
Highest Level Characters of each Class:
Adept 6 (1 lvl 3)
Aristocrat 4
Commoner 7 (2x lvl 3, 288x lvl 1)
Expert 7 (2x lvl 3, 7x lvl 1)
Warrior 6 (2x lvl 3, 13x lvl 1)

Barbarian 2 (2x lvl 1)
Bard 2 (2x lvl 1)
Cleric 5 (2x lvl 2, 4x lvl 1)
Druid 3 (2x Lvl 1) AND (1 lvl 20 - Demeter)
Fighter 5 (2x lvl 2, 4x lvl 1)
Monk 1
Paladin 1
Ranger 3 (2x Lvl 1)
Rogue 6 (2x lvl 3, 4x lvl 1)
Sorcerer 2 (2x lvl 1)
Wizard 2 (2x lvl 1)

At your option you can change the clerics and druids, or combine them all to druids, but a blend is not bad. Have them venerate Demeter and take a mix of the Earth, Plant, and Protection domains (leaning more heavily on Plant and Earth for a more druidic/Agrculture focused feel).

Mixed Community:
79% Human (293 citizens)
9% Halfling (33 Citizens)
5% Elf (18 Citizens)
3% Dwarf (12 Citizens)
2% Gnome (7 Citizens)
1% Half-Elf (4 Citizens)
1% Half-Orc (4 Citizens)
<1% Deity (1 Citizen)

There you go, a community of 372 fully populated with all the various classes with a good spread of variety (courtesy of DMG pages 137-139).


I don't really need much help with the demographics for this one and it's pretty nonstandard as far as communities go. It was designed by a depowered diety to help them get their powers back, it's pretty intently focused on training up druids to help them achieve her master plan.

[Remuko]

Normally that'd be the case, and it probably was for the first few decades, but each god started up their own thing with their most devoted followers and my version of Demeter would totally be willing to teach the people near her on a day to day basis nature magic so they can better help her with her goal of growing all the things and they'd have to be pretty poor followers to not listen. Over the century everyone there has either learned to be a druid or is learning to be a druid while still helping how they can (every god has some absurd feat they've got to achieve in order to get their godhood back based on what they were know for, for Demeter that involves a harvest on a massive scale). Since this isn't really a generic D&D world for the most part things aren't too dangerous (yet) and monsters and bandits are an exception rather than the rule.

I hadn't even thought about crop diseases, that's totally the kind of thing I was look at ng for, something that was probably a major issue that they can rather easily solve with the resources at their disposal.



I don't really need much help with the demographics for this one and it's pretty nonstandard as far as communities go. It was designed by a depowered diety to help them get their powers back, it's pretty intently focused on training up druids to help them achieve her master plan.


well even if shes training everyone to be druids it doesnt guarantee everyone can be a one. Average human has between 8-12 Wisdom and without 11 or 12 they cant really do much Druid-ing.

[AnimeTheCat]

well even if shes training everyone to be druids it doesnt guarantee everyone can be a one. Average human has between 8-12 Wisdom and without 11 or 12 they cant really do much Druid-ing.

it seems like this is some kind of elite society that a former deity is raising from the cream of the crop, so these creatures that she's recruited will probably have the Elite Array for ability scores, likely to have the 15 or 14 in Wisdom, which is passable for a druid. This is, of course, speculation on my part because I was under the impression originally that this was a normal society that the deity was trying to enrich to reclaim her deific power.

[Psyren]

Normally that'd be the case, and it probably was for the first few decades, but each god started up their own thing with their most devoted followers and my version of Demeter would totally be willing to teach the people near her on a day to day basis nature magic so they can better help her with her goal of growing all the things and they'd have to be pretty poor followers to not listen. Over the century everyone there has either learned to be a druid or is learning to be a druid while still helping how they can (every god has some absurd feat they've got to achieve in order to get their godhood back based on what they were know for, for Demeter that involves a harvest on a massive scale). Since this isn't really a generic D&D world for the most part things aren't too dangerous (yet) and monsters and bandits are an exception rather than the rule.

I hadn't even thought about crop diseases, that's totally the kind of thing I was look at ng for, something that was probably a major issue that they can rather easily solve with the resources at their disposal.



I don't really need much help with the demographics for this one and it's pretty nonstandard as far as communities go. It was designed by a depowered diety to help them get their powers back, it's pretty intently focused on training up druids to help them achieve her master plan.

If that's the case then the assumptions go out the window a bit, you're going to reach a post-scarcity society fairly quickly if you have that many casters and so few threats. Even fairly low-level druids can cast stuff like Plant Growth, Remove Disease, and Creater/Control Water, even Goodberry repeatedly that basically change the nature (heh) of farming as we know it. Not to mention the ones who get just a bit higher and can start doing stuff like moving and softening the earth itself.

Monsters and crime being rare also points to the fact that either there are no deities for those concepts (probably fine for a Greek myth setting?) or the ones that exist are pretty weak.

[rmnimoc]

If that's the case then the assumptions go out the window a bit, you're going to reach a post-scarcity society fairly quickly if you have that many casters and so few threats. Even fairly low-level druids can cast stuff like Plant Growth, Remove Disease, and Creater/Control Water, even Goodberry repeatedly that basically change the nature (heh) of farming as we know it. Not to mention the ones who get just a bit higher and can start doing stuff like moving and softening the earth itself.

Monsters and crime being rare also points to the fact that either there are no deities for those concepts (probably fine for a Greek myth setting?) or the ones that exist are pretty weak.

Basically everyone has been consolidating their power for the last century. Monsters tend to be the kind typical in the myths of Greece, the massive beasts that take heroes to kill, not the goblins and kobolds of typical D&D. Echidna and Typhon have spent the last decade grabbing as many as they can and forcing them into their service. Most enemies in the campaign will probably be other humans. Greece wasn't exactly short on gods of battle and war and they'll all be trying to get their divinity back too, even before you consider that some gods will be willing to try quite hard to make sure some other gods stay mortal.

Anyway, back to the Druid farmer thing. Plant Growth is only a 30% increase over what the yield would be otherwise, right? Goodberry can only work on a max of eight berries per cast and only lasts one day per level. Create water would help with irrigation and stuff.

Just Plant Growth alone does a lot to increase crop yields to modern levels (nitrogen fertilizer became a big thing in the 19th century and a study I found suggested crop yields in the United States would drop 40% if we stopped using it). Create/Control Water would help them make better use of their farmland, but ancient Greece already used irrigation to a large degree since most farmland in Greece was incredibly poor, so I'm not sure how much change that'll have. Controlling the weather through magic will help a lot, since apparently as much as 25% of crops failed thanks to poor weather. I'm not really sure what Goodberry would do on a larger scale though, mostly because of the limited duration.

[Psyren]

Well, Plant Growth is duration instantaneous, so it's unclear what would happen if you cast it repeatedly.

Goodberry's duration isn't really relevant since you'd only need to cast it right when folks are hungry. That's 2-8 people fully fed per 1st-level slot, or up to ~50 people per day for a level 5 druid, and a bunch of those people are druids too under this premise. You probably wouldn't eliminate the need to farm entirely but you have a pretty solid supplement. Hunting is probably unnecessary unless people really want meat.

Can't speak to the irrigation bit other than to say that's a lot of infrastructure you now don't need to build if each druid can produce gallons of water out of thin air.

[AnimeTheCat]

You probably wouldn't eliminate the need to farm entirely but you have a pretty solid supplement.

Just farm Grapes to make wine, and also Goodberry lol. I mean... Grapes are berries right?