Point Buy's limit of 15 per stat is a buff to V.Human

[bendking]

Let me explain:
If every race had been able to get to 16 prior to racial stat boosts, it would have been an equally good choice to go for a 16 in the primary stat then get a +2 to get yourself to 18 in your chosen stat, then take the feat you would have taken as a V.Human at level 4, thus making the choice between taking the feat earlier or later, or even two feats in V.Human's case if you're going for a feat heavy build.
However, as it stands, you can only get to 17, incentivizing (not in all cases, because half-feats exist) you to just put 14 in your chosen stat and then disperse your extra points with other not-as-important stats. This makes it so at level 4, you can have 18 without a feat (and a bit more in tertiary stats), while V.Human can, at level 4, be at 18 AND a feat.

What do you think? How would you solve this issue? I think giving players the option to get to 16 in a stat, while a small buff, makes things better for all races while not nerfing V.Human.

[Armisael]

You’re drastically reducing the number of viable top-level races for each class; if a race doesn’t have a +2 in your primary stat then you shouldn’t run it.

This feels like killing a fly with dynamite - lots of collateral damage. If you want to nerf vhuman nerf it directly (and that is rather explicitly your goal; a buff to every non-human race is a relative nerf to humans).

Also, humans aren’t the only race that doesn’t get a +2 in any one stat.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Well, my half-elf paladin and half-elf hexblade took 17 cha and at level 4 had a feat and 18.

If you ever plan to take half a feat that add to your primary ability you can just choose a race with +2 to this ability and get 18.

Starting with 16 is just like getting an extra feat if you never intended to take half feat that add to your primary ability.

[bendking]

Well, my half-elf paladin and half-elf hexblade took 17 cha and at level 4 had a feat and 18.

I have addressed half-feats in the post. Those are an exception to the rule.


You’re drastically reducing the number of viable top-level races for each class; if a race doesn’t have a +2 in your primary stat then you shouldn’t run it.

This feels like killing a fly with dynamite - lots of collateral damage. If you want to nerf vhuman nerf it directly (and that is rather explicitly your goal; a buff to every non-human race is a relative nerf to humans).

Also, humans aren’t the only race that doesn’t get a +2 in any one stat.

That's a solid point. Definitely did not think of that.
I don't want to nerf V.Human, I want to buff other races. No, it's not the same thing, since the effects are obviously different.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I have addressed half-feats in the post. Those are an exception to the rule.



That's a solid point. Definitely did not think of that.
I don't want to nerf V.Human, I want to buff other races. No, it's not the same thing, since the effects are obviously different.

Probably missed it.

You can just give everyone an extra feat at level 1 and it will have the same effect.
Saving an ASI for a feat.

[NaughtyTiger]

[QUOTE=bendking;24074903you to just put 14 in your chosen stat and then disperse your extra points with other not-as-important stats. [/QUOTE]

what not-as-important stats?

as a DM, i love it when folks ignore WIS. easiest encounter ever.
as a DM, i hate it when folks ignore INT, cuz when they get stumped by illusions or mind flayers, players just throw tantrums.

encouraging balanced characters is a good thing.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

what not-as-important stats?

as a DM, i love it when folks ignore WIS. easiest encounter ever.
as a DM, i hate it when folks ignore INT, cuz when they get stumped by illusions or mind flayers, players just throw tantrums.

encouraging balanced characters is a good thing.

The cap of 20 do gives players a reason to not ignore stats.

The ability to take a feat or and ASI remove this reason.

You may want to play with a Feat and ASI rule or no feats rule.

[heavyfuel]

I don't want to nerf V.Human, I want to buff other races. No, it's not the same thing, since the effects are obviously different.

The only way I think this is possible is to allow every other race a feat at lv 1. VHumans are "broken" because - in most games where you play weekly - they allow you to play the character you want literally months before you previously could.

If your choices are "play a human character that can do what you want now" and "play an elf that will be able do what you want by 2020, assuming the game even lasts that long", well, it's not really a choice is it?

[DevilMcam]

The maximum of 15 for point buy is made to avoid lvl1 characters to start with a +4
If you want to incentive player playing other races What you can do is
- use point buy with one less point.
- apply racial modifier
- add de single +1 to an attrivute up to à maximum of 16.

That way you can have badass gnome barbarian or dwarf wizard

[Meichrob7]

V human can already get +2 in any stat because there’s at least one half feat for every single stat type (although I’m kinda heating when I say that because like 2-3 are only covered because of resilient)