Champions of the Spheres: Study and Practice (Drop Dead Studios Playtest)

[Thealtruistorc]

Hello again everyone! Been a while since my last playtest on here. Don't worry, there's more to come.

Presented here is my first book for Drop Dead Studios. Champions of the Spheres: Study and Practice (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iYewFU_6W2vsl19r5sQWCSabp1JhjBQo63JGeOFdM2o/edit?ts=5d4b1847) is a new expansion dedicated to characters who wish to use their magical and martial abilities in new ways, presenting several new subsystems and archetypes for players who wish to broaden their horizons.

Among them are...

Aristeia, a system of escalating transformations for your character's defining moment!

Oaths, vows that a character can make in order to obtain great power, so long as they adhere to their promises.

Techniques, an expanded system of Spellcrafting that accommodates combat talents as well as magic talents!

Variant Rules to expand the possibilities of your game world!

And finally, a wide variety of new Feats and Archetypes, many of them dealing with characters who dive into multiple casting traditions (known as theurge feats).

Check it out and leave your thoughts. Input is always appreciated.

[StSword]

Oath of Ritual. It seems to me that requiring daily ability damage that a player would just choose an ability they don't care about in the first place. How about doing unhealable nonlethal damage from self flagellation or something? Hit points are a precious resource for any player.

Considering there is already a prestige class for combining regular pathfinder casting with spheres of power, how about expanding theurge feats for those kinds of characters?

And something that I've been thinking about since that arcforge book- Feats to make the alien energies more compatible rules wise with some of the options.

Like the fluff of the Chi Tracer tradition really makes it sound like it has the same roots as Monk ki powers. So it seems to me a feat like Alien Energy-Ki to turn the spellpoint pool into a ki pool to encourage multiclassing into monk or ninja, or gaining ki (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/legendary-games/ki-feats/) feats (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/jade-feats#toc90) or whatever is in the campaign, whatever.

Or Alien Energies-Akasha, to turn the spellpoint pool into essence which can be invested/bound/burnt for akashic feats and the like?

I noticed that many Aristeia feats have a benefit out of the Aristeia state, but not all of them. i can't help but fear that players are going to be reluctant to spend their precious feat slots on feats that they are only ever going to use in absolute emergencies. I see two ways to fix that issue- Either make sure every Aristeia feat has use outside of the Aristeia state, or provide more alternative ways for players to get their hands on those feats, like the Oath benefit.

[Galacktic]

Still reading, but the Technique Crafting feat is nowhere to be found!


E: also, Heroic Perseverance makes no sense. Spend points to avoid negative levels, to...get a negative level per point?

[Thealtruistorc]

Still reading, but the Technique Crafting feat is nowhere to be found!


E: also, Heroic Perseverance makes no sense. Spend points to avoid negative levels, to...get a negative level per point?

The missing Technique Crafting was a typo which I have corrected.

As for Heroic Perseverance, the idea is that if you have extra points left after entering Aristeia, you can spend them to negate negative levels from entering Aristeia.

[Galacktic]

The missing Technique Crafting was a typo which I have corrected.

As for Heroic Perseverance, the idea is that if you have extra points left after entering Aristeia, you can spend them to negate negative levels from entering Aristeia.

Ohh, I had misread it entirely: I had read it as "for every point expended, you gain one permanent negative level". That's my fault, thank you for the response though :)


E: As per Spellcrafting, is there a limit to the number of techniques you can hold?

[StSword]

E: As per Spellcrafting, is there a limit to the number of techniques you can hold?


Yes, the same limit- your modifier. "A character may only know a number of techniques at a time equal to their casting ability modifier or practitioner modifier, whichever is higher (if the character is only a caster or only a practitioner, they use the corresponding modifier)."

You can get past that limit with technique scripts, also just like spellcrafting.

[SangoProduction]

looks cool

[Palanan]

So, for those of us who keep seeing this "Spheres" thing, with no real idea what it's about, where is a good place to get an overview?

I normally don't use third-party, but I'm a little curious.

[legomaster00156]

So, for those of us who keep seeing this "Spheres" thing, with no real idea what it's about, where is a good place to get an overview?

I normally don't use third-party, but I'm a little curious.
Right here. (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/)

[Palanan]

Thanks, I have moseyed.

And am now stuck on the Dreamlands cats. Which are all the more relevant right now, since my own cat is dozing with a pleased expression just across the room.

[legomaster00156]

Thanks, I have moseyed.

And am now stuck on the Dreamlands cats. Which are all the more relevant right now, since my own cat is dozing with a pleased expression just across the room.
That is not Spheres of Power/Might, but rather it is from Sandy Peterson's Cthulu Mythos book. Only the stuff on the linked page is SoP/SoM.

[Mehangel]

So, for those of us who keep seeing this "Spheres" thing, with no real idea what it's about, where is a good place to get an overview?

I normally don't use third-party, but I'm a little curious.

In addition to the wiki, here is a review by Endzeitgeist on Spheres of Power (http://endzeitgeist.com/spheres-power/) and Spheres of Might (http://endzeitgeist.com/spheres-pfrpg-sfrpg/).

TLDR;

SoP is a talent-tree based magic system that replaces core vancian spellcasting, best used to create thematic character concepts otherwise difficult to pull off by level 5, let alone level 1.

SoM is a talent-tree based martial system that revolves around the attack action (instead of full attacks), best used to make combat more cinematic, while also allowing the creation of character concepts otherwise difficult to pull off by level 5, let alone level 1.

[SangoProduction]

In addition to the wiki, here is a review by Endzeitgeist on Spheres of Power (http://endzeitgeist.com/spheres-power/) and Spheres of Might (http://endzeitgeist.com/spheres-pfrpg-sfrpg/).

TLDR;

SoP is a talent-tree based magic system that replaces core vancian spellcasting, best used to create thematic character concepts otherwise difficult to pull off by level 5, let alone level 1.

SoM is a talent-tree based martial system that revolves around the attack action (instead of full attacks), best used to make combat more cinematic, while also allowing the creation of character concepts otherwise difficult to pull off by level 5, let alone level 1.

Talent tree is not totally accurate. A talent tree implies that there's a linear method of acquisition of skills and abilities.

A more accurate metaphor would be like a bunch of rooms, with a locked door that needs a key (the base sphere) to get in to each one.

[thethird]

I need to give the aristeia part a good reread, because it's early in the morning and I haven't digested it well yet.

If memory serves there are some evil/vile oaths in 3.5 that might serve as inspiration for some more oaths, I like how some are very sinergistic with class features.

Techniques appear to replace spellcrafting entirely, is there something you can do with the old spellcrafting that you can't with the new technique system? I am very fond of spellcrafting myself, have played a lot with the fate sphere, and look forward to think what will be possible to do when merging combat spheres.


Adept Initiator (Champion, Combat)
You simplify and streamline your intricate performances
Prerequisite: Knowledge of at least one technique.
Benefit: Reduce the complexity of all techniques you know by 1 for the purpose of your initiation of them.

:amused: Really happy that exists, my Parzivalian Knight will be really really happy.

Is it missing the adjusting durations from spellcrafting?


Adjusting Durations
If your base ability has a duration of concentration and you are adding abilities with a duration of 1 minute per caster level or longer, reduce the spell’s cost by 1 spell point. If your base ability has a duration of 10 minutes per caster level or longer and you are adding abilities with a duration of 1 round per caster level or shorter (including concentration), increase the spell’s cost by 1 spell point and decrease the spell’s duration by one step (1 hour per caster level becomes 10 minutes per caster level, 10 minutes per caster level becomes 1 minute per caster level).

Based on the text it looks like you can add a base sphere ability for 1 complexity, later it mentions that you can add the effect of a talent without adding the base sphere. My table has always ruled this as being summarized / merged as:

First choose a sphere ability that produces an effect and can be augmented by talents as normal. You must be able to use the sphere ability normally. Otherwise certain sphere abilities that were added after the initial sphere design wouldn't be usable, such as mantles/shrouds (weather), or motiffs (fate). I don't know if that is intentional or not, if it wasn't it might be a good idea to revisit the wording.

[dude123nice]

So can you use about special attack actions gained through feats, like Spell Attack, while crafting techniques?

[digiman619]

Question about techniques: I have a Warleader character who dipped to get War. If I wanted a technique that activated a totem and a tactic at the same time, what would the complexity be? And would I have to have separate techniques for each tactic-totem combination?

[StSword]

Question about techniques: I have a Warleader character who dipped to get War. If I wanted a technique that activated a totem and a tactic at the same time, what would the complexity be? And would I have to have separate techniques for each tactic-totem combination?

That would work better as a champion feat, like Planar Commander, which allows one to summon a creature and use a warleader tactic at the same time.

[JerichoPenumbra]

Question about techniques: I have a Warleader character who dipped to get War. If I wanted a technique that activated a totem and a tactic at the same time, what would the complexity be? And would I have to have separate techniques for each tactic-totem combination?

As it stands in the current Technique rules, the complexity would be 2 and you'd have to choose which is the base-effect (are you slapping a tactic onto the totem you're making or visa-versa). Also to my understanding each tactic-totem would have to be a separate Technique. What it sounds like you want is something more like a Champion-style Dual Sphere feat which would let you do both at the same time with maybe a small side benefit, like allies under the effect of your tactics count as being within range of totems for rallies, being able to use shouts as rallies (as usual immediate action + spell point), or something else.

Edit: Swordsage'd

[digiman619]

That would work better as a champion feat, like Planar Commander, which allows one to summon a creature and use a warleader tactic at the same time.
Yeah, but here's the thing: once this handbook gets published, this will be the only way to do it by the rules. Would a Dual-Sphere feat be easier? Yes, but I really don't have the right to tell the author "Hey, write this feat for me". I already got more than I deserve for inadvertently getting the Soulknife archetype made.


As it stands in the current Technique rules, the complexity would be 2 and you'd have to choose which is the base-effect (are you slapping a tactic onto the totem you're making or visa-versa). Also to my understanding each tactic-totem would have to be a separate Technique. What it sounds like you want is something more like a Champion-style Dual Sphere feat which would let you do both at the same time with maybe a small side benefit, like allies under the effect of your tactics count as being within range of totems for rallies, being able to use shouts as rallies (as usual immediate action + spell point), or something else.

Edit: Swordsage'd
Thanks. This will definitely be food for thought.

[SangoProduction]

From what I've read: Aristea is either a concept that no one will use, or they will just heal off the damage, and not care. And since it's a subsystem that requires investment in to in order to use, most people will just forget it exists.

The oaths are great. I like that you can gain benefits for little quirks of character. Or have them be a really big deal and get more benefits. Of course, then the non-face barbarian takes all the face oaths and simply doesn't role play. But you can't really design around problem players. Well, you can, but at the cost to the not problem players.

Techniques: Meh. I couldn't care about spellcrafting. Its not for me.

[dude123nice]

From what I've read: Aristea is either a concept that no one will use, or they will just heal off the damage, and not care. And since it's a subsystem that requires investment in to in order to use, most people will just forget it exists.

The oaths are great. I like that you can gain benefits for little quirks of character. Or have them be a really big deal and get more benefits.

Techniques: Meh. I couldn't care about spellcrafting. Its not for me.

Think they've already removed the ability to heal the damage.

[SangoProduction]

Think they've already removed the ability to heal the damage.

Ah. Cool. So just the former in that case.

[StSword]

Ah. Cool. So just the former in that case.

Yes, I thought that making them count as combat feats would at least let fighters and brawlers pull them out as an emergency.

[NNescio]

In addition to the wiki, here is a review by Endzeitgeist on Spheres of Power (http://endzeitgeist.com/spheres-power/) and Spheres of Might (http://endzeitgeist.com/spheres-pfrpg-sfrpg/).

TLDR;

SoP is a talent-tree based magic system that replaces core vancian spellcasting, best used to create thematic character concepts otherwise difficult to pull off by level 5, let alone level 1. (...)

Oh. So that's where the ability mentioned in that other thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?594951-I-can-make-any-object-and-make-them-out-of-Force-What-do-I-make) comes from.

[SangoProduction]

Yeah. Creation sphere.

[JerichoPenumbra]

I agree with some regards to Aristeia being on the niche side. I think what bugs me more about it is the limitation of its use. By which I don't mean the condition to activate, but by the limitation of points. Since you get another activation condition per feat, while limited is still usable so I don't think that's an issue. But the pool being limited by the feats at least in my mind means that most people won't want to use their Aristeia except for only really big fights and use the highest (or second highest) level of Aristeia mode available to them as they become higher level and face more difficult challenges. This also assumes that they're only dealing with one major group of antagonists and that either they won't necessarily need to use Aristeia again for a while or that the cinematic fight they just had would give them enough experience to level.

As possible alternatives, maybe having a pool of Aristeia points equal to character level or half character level but still essentially keep the current built in limitations of what level of Aristeia a character can access (based number of feats and level). This could encourage grander fights and let people feel like their investment is worth more than a "once in a blue moon fight". I can see people taking just one feat for +2 to d20 rolls and being unable to fumble in a fight against their rival. Alternatively, maybe have a recovery mechanic of 1 point per week, regaining a point after they heal their last negative level from the backlash, an additional clause of restoring their points at significant milestones like hero points, or something else.

As an aside, I'm ambivalent about Aristeia mode only being a minute long, but since the higher levels of the mode give extra turns during that time frame I figure it equals out.

[AlienFromBeyond]

Techniques: Meh. I couldn't care about spellcrafting. Its not for me.
Good thing casting is literally only half of the equation when it comes to techniques. Hell, you can make pure combat techniques if desired.

[inuyasha]

This is really cool! I'm excited for the vow system, it's probably my favorite thing about this.

I do have two slight issues, but I'm not sure if they're just a me thing.
One: The "skilled" boon sounds really nice for skill monkeys and otherwise... maybe even too good? One point and bam, everything is a class skill? That's pretty great, especially with SoM being able to grant me more skill points.
Two: The Oat of Wardenship sounds almost too specific and prohibitive. Is this more meant to be a way to buff up specific NPCs? I can't really think of any way to use this with an adventuring PC.

[SangoProduction]

This is really cool! I'm excited for the vow system, it's probably my favorite thing about this.

I do have two slight issues, but I'm not sure if they're just a me thing.
One: The "skilled" boon sounds really nice for skill monkeys and otherwise... maybe even too good? One point and bam, everything is a class skill? That's pretty great, especially with SoM being able to grant me more skill points.
Two: The Oat of Wardenship sounds almost too specific and prohibitive. Is this more meant to be a way to buff up specific NPCs? I can't really think of any way to use this with an adventuring PC.

I'd have to agree. Oath of Wardenship is also one of those truly binary things. You are either playing a city-based game, and the oath does nothing at all. Or you don't, and it's not taken ever.

[dude123nice]

I'd have to agree. Oath of Wardenship is also one of those truly binary things. You are either playing a city-based game, and the oath does nothing at all. Or you don't, and it's not taken ever.

IMHO, there isn't anything wrong with the existence of oaths that are unsuitable for PCs or certain types of adventures, if they can be taken by NPCs and make sense for the setting.

But my main concern with the oaths system are the attached feats. Does it really seem like it's worth it to spend 1 feat per oath point?

[SangoProduction]

IMHO, there isn't anything wrong with the existence of oaths that are unsuitable for PCs or certain types of adventures, if they can be taken by NPCs and make sense for the setting.

But my main concern with the oaths system are the attached feats. Does it really seem like it's worth it to spend 1 feat per oath point?

Considering the scaling nature of oaths, and the fact that in core, there are only so many useful feats for any given character, potentially yes.
Would you pay 2 3 feats for fast healing 1? Debatable. Probably not. Unless this was core. Then possibly. Never.
Would you pay 2 3 feats for fast healing 5? Yeah. Kinda. OK No. Probably not.

But would you pay 2 feats to literally never die? Depends on the campaign.
1 feat to have all class skills, and an additional (character level) skill points? Definitely for a skill monkey, especially if the needed class skills would require more than a 1 level dip.


But Spheres of Power made feats so much more worth while than in core, because you can use them to buy spells and class features. This means that there's little to no lack of useful feats for those in SoP/M.

But of course, the feats don't exist in a vacuum. There's also oaths which are granting bonus oath points. Would you prefer to take vow of candor or a feat? Probably the oath.


But maybe you've taken all the oaths you want to take, but are just 1 off from getting the superior benefit. And I think that's the point. These aren't supposed to be feat benefits. It should be benefits for oaths, and spending a feat is just a more expensive way of fitting the puzzle, if so needed.