Who Will Kill Xykon?

[Schroeswald]

I've been wondering who will kill Xykon (or make him more deader), because he is gonna be killed by the end of the comic, I personally think it will be one of three people (though I imagine other people might have other theories).

Roy: It makes sense, the protagonist, the blood oath, and all that (making him somewhat unlikely to actually strike the killing blow)
Redcloak: He's almost certainly going to start helping the good guys at the end, and he has the phylactery making it easiest for him to kill him, especially after the body is destroyed.
Belkar: I imagine this one is less obvious, but I feel like it would be appropriate for his final act to be unequivically Good, and he would likely die killing Xykon (maybe his final moments will involve the clasp no longer hurting him).

[Goblin_Priest]

Roy, with an assist from RC.

[CriticalFailure]

Roy.

Redcloak might take out the phylactery.

[Particle_Man]

MitD throws him into the Snarl.

[Worldsong]

Tarquin in an attempt to cement himself as the main villain.

[brian 333]

Redcloak's niece.

I have to agree with Roy and Redcloak. Roy to take him out and Redcloak to make it permanent.

[Squire Doodad]

I kinda wanna say Belkar because it'd be appropiate, but everything else I can think of says 60% chance Roy 40% RC.

[Rrmcklin]

Considering Mr. Burlew is on record as saying things will ultimately come down to Roy vs. Xykon, I don't think this is in question.

[brian 333]

Considering Mr. Burlew is on record as saying things will ultimately come down to Roy vs. Xykon, I don't think this is in question.

Please bananna that quote for me; I missed it.

[The Pilgrim]

Roy.

Redcloak might take out the phylactery.

+1

Roy will perform the heroic badass thing (beat Xykon's body) while Redcloak will play the part that completes his character arc (getting ridden of Xykon and giving up on the plan).

[hroþila]

Julia. It'd be hilarious.

[mjasghar]

Technically he is undead
So he will be unkilled

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Julia.

Bob was there too

Grey Wolf

[littlebum2002]

Roy will kill Xykon and the comic will be called


1481 Roy Has 99 Problems But a Lich Ain't One

[Riftwolf]

Roy will kill Xykon and the comic will be called


1481 Roy Has 99 Problems But a Lich Ain't One

If you suffer spell failure I feel bad for you son...

[pendell]

Xykon's already killed, and Redcloak did it as part of his lichification. Xykon, being undead, has been dead since the start of the comic, and so can't be killed.

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

[Quebbster]

No one kills Xykon. He lives. [/peterfalk]

[Squire Doodad]

Please bananna that quote for me; I missed it.

For some reason I really like how this is an actual functional verb here XD

[The Pilgrim]

Xykon will be killed by Rich Burlew.

[Squire Doodad]

Xykon will be killed by Rich Burlew.

"As the dreadful Xykon cast his spell, success for Roy and the Order seemed hopeless.

When suddenly, the cartoonist suffered a fatal heart attack! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGtCrGdlKYI)"


No cartoonists were harmed in the making of this joke. :smallbiggrin:

[Riftwolf]

No one kills Xykon. He lives. [/peterfalk]

So he wins? Jesus Quebbster, why did you read me this story!?

[Goblin_Priest]

Redcloak betrays Xykon, Xykon (or MitD) knocks him out. Roy comes in, gets taken out (paralyzed?). Rest of the party weakens Xykon, but fails to defeat him. Xykon gloats. Redcloak's dying breath is to bring Roy back to shape, who retakes his weapon, come back to Xykon, and kills him with a perfect mega green flaming eye critical move.

So kinda like the vampire fight, but RC is Durkon, and Roy is Belkar. :P

[Squire Doodad]

Redcloak betrays Xykon, Xykon (or MitD) knocks him out. Roy comes in, gets taken out (paralyzed?). Rest of the party weakens Xykon, but fails to defeat him. Xykon gloats. Redcloak's dying breath is to bring Roy back to shape, who retakes his weapon, come back to Xykon, and kills him with a perfect mega green flaming eye critical move.

So kinda like the vampire fight, but RC is Durkon, and Roy is Belkar. :P

Alternative scenario:
Xykon faces the Order. Belkar charges, accidentally gets tossed into the gate. Roy attacks. Xykon MSwarms him, pushing Roy back. Durkon prepares buffs.
As a completely unrelated occurrence, a rock falls and crushes Xykon.

[Lombard]

I think it's been fairly well lampshaded that he'll lose to a wizard in a master class of preparation and out of the box thinking, so V I guess

[Worldsong]

I think it's been fairly well lampshaded that he'll lose to a wizard in a master class of preparation and out of the box thinking, so V I guess

Only if throwing a high level Fighter (Roy) at Xykon is part of the wizard (Vaarsuvius)'s well prepared and ingenious plan.

[ti'esar]

No one kills Xykon. He lives. [/peterfalk]So he wins? Jesus Quebbster, why did you read me this story!?

Hilariously, this scene was pretty much how things with Tarquin actually played out around here.

[jwhouk]

It would only be funny if Roy didn't kill* Xykon, if only for Roy's dad to go, "NOOOO! Now I'll NEVER get out of limbo because of this blood oath!"


* - You know what I mean by "kill".

[Squire Doodad]

It would only be funny if Roy didn't kill* Xykon, if only for Roy's dad to go, "NOOOO! Now I'll NEVER get out of limbo because of this blood oath!"


* - You know what I mean by "kill".

The blood oath just stops him from heading to the afterlife for as long as Xykon remains in existence. The moment Xykon dies, regardless of the means by which he does so, Eugene gets to go into the afterlife.

[hamishspence]

That's not how it's worded though. It specifically states that he will not rest until he or his heirs has exacted horrible vengeance on Xykon.

If some random stranger does, maybe he's trapped.

[CriticalFailure]

That's not how it's worded though. It specifically states that he will not rest until he or his heirs has exacted horrible vengeance on Xykon.

If some random stranger does, maybe he's trapped.


So if Roy destroys his skeleton and then Redcloak destroys the phylactery while he's in it, Eugene is stuck?

[Worldsong]

So if Roy destroys his skeleton and then Redcloak destroys the phylactery while he's in it, Eugene is stuck?

Going by the literal oath it sounds possible.

That said I'm not sure if a Good afterlife would keep someone trapped on the clouds forever if the oath they made in life becomes impossible to fulfill. Maybe he'd be kicked to a different afterlife as punishment?

EDIT: On the other hand if the literal oath states that his heirs have to exact horrible vengeance rather than stating they have to kill the lich destroying Xykon's body so Redcloak can finish the job with the phylactery might already count.

[Squire Doodad]

Going by the literal oath it sounds possible.

That said I'm not sure if a Good afterlife would keep someone trapped on the clouds forever if the oath they made in life becomes impossible to fulfill. Maybe he'd be kicked to a different afterlife as punishment?

EDIT: On the other hand if the literal oath states that his heirs have to exact horrible vengeance rather than stating they have to kill the lich destroying Xykon's body so Redcloak can finish the job with the phylactery might already count.

Honestly, Eugene being stuck on the clouds forever would be both a less painful and more appropriate punishment than sending him to an evil afterlife. Being just out of reach of his great prize is an agonizing psychological punishment, but either way he hasn't actually done anything too wrong to make him deserve proper torment. He's been neglectful, but hasn't really gone out of his way to do anything more than "iffy".

Leaving him out on the clouds probably won't happen, but it would be about what he deserves for the time being.

[Worldsong]

Honestly, Eugene being stuck on the clouds forever would be both a less painful and more appropriate punishment than sending him to an evil afterlife. Being just out of reach of his great prize is an agonizing psychological punishment, but either way he hasn't actually done anything too wrong to make him deserve proper torment. He's been neglectful, but hasn't really gone out of his way to do anything more than "iffy".

Leaving him out on the clouds probably won't happen, but it would be about what he deserves for the time being.

I was more thinking about a Neutral afterlife or maybe just from Lawful Good to Neutral Good, since breaking your oath is usually considered an unlawful act. I wouldn't throw him into an evil afterlife.

That said I agree that being on the clouds is an appropriate punishment, but I also think that the phrase "for the time being" is very important there. Eventually something would have to be done with his soul if only because I don't think any of the gods could cash in on his soul if it was stuck there forever.

Honestly Neutral Good afterlife sounds appropriate to me since assuming that the rest of his existence qualifies for Lawful Good failing to fulfill the oath alone doesn't sound like adequate reason to punish him much. The Neutral Good afterlife could even be treated as the appropriate place for him.

[Schroeswald]

I was more thinking about a Neutral afterlife or maybe just from Lawful Good to Neutral Good, since breaking your oath is usually considered an unlawful act. I wouldn't throw him into an evil afterlife.

That said I agree that being on the clouds is an appropriate punishment, but I also think that the phrase "for the time being" is very important there. Eventually something would have to be done with his soul if only because I don't think any of the gods could cash in on his soul if it was stuck there forever.
I'd say just judge him, counting the broken oath like the other living acts he did (considering everything he's done in the clouds I'd also say judge him for that), if we count his afterlife I'd doubt he'd make it into lawful.

[Squire Doodad]

I'd say just judge him, counting the broken oath like the other living acts he did (considering everything he's done in the clouds I'd also say judge him for that), if we count his afterlife I'd doubt he'd make it into lawful.

True. It'd be like Thor telling Durkon he needs to go back even if he doesn't want to - it'd be taking away his prize after winning the race.

That said, there appears to be plenty of instances of Eugene being both Neutral on the LC spectrum and Neutral on the GE spectrum. There's a compelling argument to be made that he wouldn't qualify for the LG afterlife even disregarding his actions after his death (though those are really more "cranky old man" moments more than anything serious).

[Schroeswald]

True. It'd be like Thor telling Durkon he needs to go back even if he doesn't want to - it'd be taking away his prize after winning the race.

That said, there appears to be plenty of instances of Eugene being both Neutral on the LC spectrum and Neutral on the GE spectrum. There's a compelling argument to be made that he wouldn't qualify for the LG afterlife even disregarding his actions after his death (though those are really more "cranky old man" moments more than anything serious).
I'd say his most likely afterlife is True Neutral (followed by Lawful Good, and then NG and LN tied for third).

[Squire Doodad]

I'd say his most likely afterlife is True Neutral (followed by Lawful Good, and then NG and LN tied for third).

Honestly I'd say LN/NG (in NG's favor) is most likely, LG is the second most likely, maybe TN.

[archon_huskie]

I am Expecting Roy to be the one to defeat Xykon.

I am also expecting a parody of the final fight with the Night King from Game of Thrones

[Squire Doodad]

I am Expecting Roy to be the one to defeat Xykon.

I am also expecting a parody of the final fight with the Night King from Game of Thrones

I'm expecting him to start off saying some cheesey (but originally epic) one-liner/microspeech ("Life...Hopes...Dreams...Where do they come from? Where do they go?") and then ditch it because he'd prefer his own material.

"We can either fuss about the meaning of life like a pair of ninnies...or I can get right to wiping the floor with your pathetic mid-level behinds. Let's roll!"

[Skum_Overlord]

Luna_Mayflower, using the greatest prophecy.

[Squire Doodad]

Luna_Mayflower, using the greatest prophecy.

What about the second-greatest prophecy? Does that one work too?

[KorvinStarmast]

I think that the question is malformed.

"Who will destroy the liche known as Xykon?"

Answer: Roy Greenhilt, with an assist from Redcloak via the phylactery.

[Squire Doodad]

I think that the question is malformed.

"Who will destroy the liche known as Xykon?"

Answer: Roy Greenhilt, with an assist from Redcloak via the phylactery.

I'm guessing the "liche known as" bit is a side effect of the Oracle's shenanigans.

"How will Xykon be destroyed?"

"Xykon "Zeke" Alvarez, gnomish owner of the second biggest Dirt farm in the Northern Continent, will fall victim to a giant earth-elemental falling from the sky as a side effect of his Head of Magical Affairs's attempt to make the dirt transportation process more efficient"

[CriticalFailure]

Will we ever find out Xykon's real name?

(I can only see it as a joke)

[Squire Doodad]

Will we ever find out Xykon's real name?

(I can only see it as a joke)

Xanatos Yykyyk-Kaleidoscope-Oni North.

[CriticalFailure]

Xanatos Yykyyk-Kaleidoscope-Oni North.

Herb Wilson.

[Jannoire]

Xanatos Yykyyk-Kaleidoscope-Oni North.

I'm pretty sure it's North-East!

[WindStruck]

Red Cloak, in the astral fortress, with the fake phylactery.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Xanatos Yykyyk-Kaleidoscope-Oni North.

ykyyk... so is xykon part kobold? ;)

[D.One]

ykyyk... so is xykon part kobold? ;)

Of course he is.

He's an evil sorcerer (opposing Roy's good fighter), he's an unholy abomination (opposed to Durkon's pious nature), he's carefree and relies on raw talent (instead of V's studies and dedication), he's cruel and ill-intentioned (opposing Elan's innocence and good nature), and he's bent on tyranny and domination (opposing to Haley's independent nature and love for freedom).

He has to have something that makes him a counterpart to Belkar.

[Jannoire]

Xykon is the ultimate linear guild!

[RatElemental]

Obviously it will be throwing axe kilt guy.

[HorizonWalker]

Of course he is.

He's an evil sorcerer (opposing Roy's good fighter), he's an unholy abomination (opposed to Durkon's pious nature), he's carefree and relies on raw talent (instead of V's studies and dedication), he's cruel and ill-intentioned (opposing Elan's innocence and good nature), and he's bent on tyranny and domination (opposing to Haley's independent nature and love for freedom).

He has to have something that makes him a counterpart to Belkar.

Xykon has no sense of taste.

Literally, one particularly memorable moment is him throwing a temper tantrum because being undead means drinking coffee doesn't do anything for him anymore.

[redemedic]

In a drunken fit of rage, Thad (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1163.html) will kill Xykon.

[Fish]

Eugene agreed too readily, in Roy’s opinion, never to visit Roy’s Ma in the afterlife.

So maybe Eugene knows he’s not getting to LG heaven no matter what.

[mucat]

Eugene agreed too readily, in Roy’s opinion, never to visit Roy’s Ma in the afterlife.

So maybe Eugene knows he’s not getting to LG heaven no matter what.

My thought is that Eugene will eventually realize he no longer wants into LG heaven.

He's not interested in reconciliation with Sara, Horace, Erik, or Roy. Climbing the Mountain in search of higher and higher states of transcendence would bore him to tears. Yeah, he'd probably be a regular at the Tavern of Infinite One Night Stands and the Debate Hall Where You Always Win...but really, the reason he's still obsessed with getting into Celestia is that it's a prize he's been denied, and Eugene hates to lose.

If you actually got the old grouch to sit down and think for five minutes, and then offered him the choice between moping around Celestia grumbling about how the whole place is run wrong, or chilling with Julia and all the great minds at a wizards' commune on the True Neutral plane (and, let's face it, grumbling about how that place is run too, because Eugene)...it's clear which one he'd actually be happy in.

[Squire Doodad]

Eugene will probably still be in the upper left corner of the after life (LN or NG, he's not Chaotic or Evil by any means), but TN could work. I'm not sure if his promise to Roy would apply to Julia if Julia goes to TN, but I doubt he cares.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Eugene will probably still be in the upper left corner of the after life (LN or NG, he's not Chaotic or Evil by any means), but TN could work. I'm not sure if his promise to Roy would apply to Julia if Julia goes to TN, but I doubt he cares.

...

If he's not in an L afterlife, yeah, any promises he made won't be anywhere near as binding, by the very nature of lack of L.

Grey Wolf

[D.One]

Have we completely discarded the appearance of Nokyx Lichkiller, son of another Fyron Xykon killed?

[Squire Doodad]

Have we completely discarded the appearance of Nokyx Lichkiller, son of another Fyron Xykon killed?

:xykon: "Oh, I remember that one! Because it was the day after laundry day, and I was so glad that I hadn't gotten my new crown dirty already."

[Mightymosy]

I've been wondering who will kill Xykon (or make him more deader), because he is gonna be killed by the end of the comic, I personally think it will be one of three people (though I imagine other people might have other theories).

Roy: It makes sense, the protagonist, the blood oath, and all that (making him somewhat unlikely to actually strike the killing blow)
Redcloak: He's almost certainly going to start helping the good guys at the end, and he has the phylactery making it easiest for him to kill him, especially after the body is destroyed.
Belkar: I imagine this one is less obvious, but I feel like it would be appropriate for his final act to be unequivically Good, and he would likely die killing Xykon (maybe his final moments will involve the clasp no longer hurting him).


I put 100 GP on "not Roy" if anyone is willing to bet.

[Squire Doodad]

I put 100 GP on "not Roy" if anyone is willing to bet.

Make it 20 quatloos.

Personally, I feel like "not Roy" will be applicable if only because I doubt Roy can smash a phylactery. That said, when it comes to smashing the body, Roy will be the most likely candidate.

[brian 333]

"Not-Roy" is too vague to wager gp or quatloos. Also, what counts as destroying? 'Cause Roy has already done the deed if you mean corporeal destruction.

10 quatloos = Roy destroys the physical body of Xykon.

10 quatloos = Redcloak destroys the phylactery.

1000 quatloos = the true identity of Redcloak's niece will remain a secret until the sequel book, 'Broken Hearts and Broken Skulls.'

[Schroeswald]

"Not-Roy" is too vague to wager gp or quatloos. Also, what counts as destroying? 'Cause Roy has already done the deed if you mean corporeal destruction.

10 quatloos = Roy destroys the physical body of Xykon.

10 quatloos = Redcloak destroys the phylactery.

1000 quatloos = the true identity of Redcloak's niece will remain a secret until the sequel book, 'Broken Hearts and Broken Skulls.'

I’ll take that first bet, and then offer another

10000 quatloos: Redcloak and/or Belkar will not die with an Evil alignment.

[CriticalFailure]

I kind of assumed that the point of Belkar's protection from evil cloak would be to eventually show that he's no longer evil at some point.

[RatElemental]

I kind of assumed that the point of Belkar's protection from evil cloak would be to eventually show that he's no longer evil at some point.

It can also just be used to show that he is still, indeed, evil.

[Worldsong]

Make it 20 quatloos.

Personally, I feel like "not Roy" will be applicable if only because I doubt Roy can smash a phylactery. That said, when it comes to smashing the body, Roy will be the most likely candidate.

But smashing things is what Roy is all about. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootscast.html)

[Schroeswald]

But smashing things is what Roy is all about. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootscast.html)

Only smashing puny kobolds, that means he’ll kill the Oracle and KilKil!

[Mic_128]

Since no one else has said it, I'll say it: The Snarl. Roy's already hurled his bones at a gate once before to finish him off, I could see it being done again, only into the rift where he's either torn to shreds, or in the trope of every movie/videogame ever, merges with the Snarl, leaving Roy and Redcloak to somehow distract him while the Gods seal him for good.

[D.One]

Only smashing puny kobolds, that means he’ll kill the Oracle and KilKil!

With a name like KilKil, his parents almost begged that someone murder him... He should be called YakYak (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0790.html)

[Squire Doodad]

Since no one else has said it, I'll say it: The Snarl. Roy's already hurled his bones at a gate once before to finish him off, I could see it being done again, only into the rift where he's either torn to shreds, or in the trope of every movie/videogame ever, merges with the Snarl, leaving Roy and Redcloak to somehow distract him while the Gods seal him for good.

I see it as being less likely that the Snarl would fuse with him in any way, and more likely that the Snarl would devour him and then realize there's someone right outside the gate, thus causing small tendrils to leak out and shred everything around it like what Laurin did.

[drazen]

I've been wondering who will kill Xykon (or make him more deader), because he is gonna be killed by the end of the comic, I personally think it will be one of three people (though I imagine other people might have other theories).

Roy: It makes sense, the protagonist, the blood oath, and all that (making him somewhat unlikely to actually strike the killing blow)
Redcloak: He's almost certainly going to start helping the good guys at the end, and he has the phylactery making it easiest for him to kill him, especially after the body is destroyed.
Belkar: I imagine this one is less obvious, but I feel like it would be appropriate for his final act to be unequivically Good, and he would likely die killing Xykon (maybe his final moments will involve the clasp no longer hurting him).


My money is on Roy trapping Xykon in a way that renders him not a threat (maybe getting him to destroy a magic artifact and lose all arcane spellcasting permanently, then shunt him to another plane?), thus trapping Eugene on the clouds. Perfect fate for all: Roy fulfills his duty while Eugene and Xykon are bored out of their skulls for all eternity.

Only catch is, I also expect V to lose all spellcasting ability as well, because that is the obvious conclusion to V's arc. Probably only Roy, Haley, and Elan walk away unscathed at the end of it all, I think.

[RatElemental]

My money is on Roy trapping Xykon in a way that renders him not a threat (maybe getting him to destroy a magic artifact and lose all arcane spellcasting permanently, then shunt him to another plane?), thus trapping Eugene on the clouds. Perfect fate for all: Roy fulfills his duty while Eugene and Xykon are bored out of their skulls for all eternity.

Roy only got into celestia the first time around because he died while actively trying to fulfill the oath. If he deliberately goes out of his way not to I don't think he'll get to just waltz back in. Also that sequence of events is so convoluted and hard to set up I really don't think Roy would ever hatch that plan in the first place let alone actually execute it.

[TheNecrocomicon]

I still personally think that one of the Snarl gates/rifts is going to get plane-shifted onto the Astral Plane, and upon destabilizing and detonating, will one-shot Xykon's big bad tomb-fortress into floating rubble. Possibly with Xykon or somebody else inside.


I’ll take that first bet, and then offer another

10000 quatloos: Redcloak and/or Belkar will not die with an Evil alignment.

Is this like that meme where some guy bet $20 on that World Cup semifinal a few years back for Germany to beat Brazil 7-1 with Sami Khedira scoring, and ended up making just shy of $50,000?


Since no one else has said it, I'll say it: The Snarl. Roy's already hurled his bones at a gate once before to finish him off, I could see it being done again, only into the rift where he's either torn to shreds, or in the trope of every movie/videogame ever, merges with the Snarl, leaving Roy and Redcloak to somehow distract him while the Gods seal him for good.

I like the book-ends aspect of this, and it certainly seems possible that Xykon, after level-grinding for quite a while at Kraagor's Tomb, is probably so deep into epic levels that even RC and the Order combined could not take him down.

I also like that said Snarl-doom-ending reminds me of Megabyte getting pulled to his (apparent) doom in a portal to the Web at the end of ReBoot's third season (of course, he came back in a much more dangerous form, but still).


Only catch is, I also expect V to lose all spellcasting ability as well, because that is the obvious conclusion to V's arc.

If something ever seems the "obvious conclusion" to an arc, then this webcomic should have taught you a long time ago that it's not going to happen, or at least not in the way that you or I expect.

[RatElemental]

I still personally think that one of the Snarl gates/rifts is going to get plane-shifted onto the Astral Plane, and upon destabilizing and detonating, will one-shot Xykon's big bad tomb-fortress into floating rubble. Possibly with Xykon or somebody else inside.

Honestly... why? There's nothing of interest in the tomb fortress and Xykon is unlikely to retreat there because he thinks if he gets destroyed he'll regenerate there anyway.

[TheNecrocomicon]

Honestly... why? There's nothing of interest in the tomb fortress and Xykon is unlikely to retreat there because he thinks if he gets destroyed he'll regenerate there anyway.

It also has his most badass fortifications and traps prepared. If he sees forces coming for him which he feels are too much for him to handle, he'll still want to face them on his own terms, rather than relatively out in the open like Kraagor's Tomb would be.

It would also subvert the expectations of anyone who feels that just because Xykon has an astral-plane fortress means that anyone will go there to do anything significant. Also, the fact that he trusted Redcloak enough to lay a bunch of protective spells on the place would probably mean more distress for Xykon that Redcloak would have any hand in its destruction.

[Schroeswald]

Is this like that meme where some guy bet $20 on that World Cup semifinal a few years back for Germany to beat Brazil 7-1 with Sami Khedira scoring, and ended up making just shy of $50,000?

No? Like, I can’t think of a single thing that my (fairly obvious) bet would share with that one besides being a bet.

[drazen]

Roy only got into celestia the first time around because he died while actively trying to fulfill the oath. If he deliberately goes out of his way not to I don't think he'll get to just waltz back in. Also that sequence of events is so convoluted and hard to set up I really don't think Roy would ever hatch that plan in the first place let alone actually execute it.

Not saying he would deliberately engineer it that way - more that he'd be trying to fulfill it, see a way to end Xykon's threat, and take the opportunity if it presents itself.

My thought this morning to tie it all together was that V will lose all spellcasting, make themself into a magic item somehow (can a person be a magic item in D&D?), trick Xykon into blasting them, and then he's just a lich with no spells. How he'd then get trapped for all eternity is something I have not worked out yet.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Also, the fact that he trusted Redcloak enough to lay a bunch of protective spells on the place
No he didn’t? Or did I miss something?

Grey Wolf

[Malphegor]

Banjo could do it if you gave Elan a Fine sword.

[The MunchKING]

No he didn’t? Or did I miss something?

Grey Wolf

He DID cast a bunch of protective spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0831.html) on it.

I thought when O-Chull tried to break it Xykon said that "we" had put so many abjurations on it, but he actually said "there are so many abjurations on it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html)".

[Grey_Wolf_c]

He DID cast a bunch of protective spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0831.html) on it.

That's the fakelactery, not the astral-plane fortress, which is what TheNecrocomicon was talking about.

ETA: Wait, found it a few strips later (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html). Xykon takes RC to the fortress to cast spells off-panel before moving on to the pyramid.

Grey Wolf

[The MunchKING]

That's the fakelactery, not the astral-plane fortress, which is what TheNecrocomico was talking about.Grey Wolf

Oh, woops missed the topic there. Knew I should have gone back to look. :smallredface:

[Goblin_Priest]

I put 100 GP on "not Roy" if anyone is willing to bet.

Roy is definitely bringing the ambulant skeleton known as Xykon down to 0 HP or less.

The phylactery, though, who knows.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Oh, woops missed the topic there. Knew I should have gone back to look. :smallredface:

No biggie. You did give me the link that allowed me to answer the question ultimately.

Grey Wolf

[Fish]

1. Xykon will be killed, if only because his whole arc is about avoiding death and the Big Fire Below. I can imagine Xykon waking up there with the IFCC (and Belkar? Vaarsuvius? Tiamat?) there waiting to see him.

2. I think Xykon’s phylactery will survive log enough to realize he’s been betrayed.

3. Destroying the phylactery would leave Redcloak without a holy symbol, unless he has his backup handy. That might be interesting.

[Schroeswald]

1. Xykon will be killed, if only because his whole arc is about avoiding death and the Big Fire Below. I can imagine Xykon waking up there with the IFCC (and Belkar? Vaarsuvius? Tiamat?) there waiting to see him.

2. I think Xykon’s phylactery will survive log enough to realize he’s been betrayed.

3. Destroying the phylactery would leave Redcloak without a holy symbol, unless he has his backup handy. That might be interesting.

Doesn’t he have his backup on him? He’s supposed to have the phylactery in the fortress and his symbol was clearly different at Girard’s Gate (though it looks like his old one at Kraagor’s Tomb).

[Fish]

He does right now. The Order knows the phylactery is Redcloak’s holy symbol, but they might not all recognize which one. Only Vaarsuvius got a really good look. If they take the wrong one, Redcloak may not have the backup on him when he needs it.

[Schroeswald]

He does right now. The Order knows the phylactery is Redcloak’s holy symbol, but they might not all recognize which one. Only Vaarsuvius got a really good look. If they take the wrong one, Redcloak may not have the backup on him when he needs it.
That might be why Rich changed the design, compare this:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0901.html
To this:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1036.html
The design changed to match the phylactery meaning V probably couldn’t tell them apart either, which is interesting to say the least.

[Fish]

That suggests a different plot point: that the Order obtains Redcloak’s holy symbol, which Redcloak knows is real, but Xykon thinks is fake. That only makes sense (in my opinion) when Redcloak has a reason to keep the real phylactery safe without tipping his hand to Xykon (something like, “Sir, we must give chase! We want them to think it’s real. If we don’t go after it, they’ll know it’s fake.”) because that creates conflict. If the Order gets the real one, then Redcloak doesn’t get to destroy it, and I rather think he will; I don’t really foresee Redcloak saying, “Godspeed, be sure to use Disjunction, here’s a couple scrolls of Greater Dispel, you’ll need them.”

Instead, I think the Order will send someone in (Haley? Belkar?) to take one, get the wrong one, leaving Reddy with the real one and no backup. They only realize it’s the wrong one when they get it back to V.

Heck, it’d be hilarious if V brought the phylactery to the IFCC somehow. Then Xykon could be killed, wake up helpless in Hell inside his phylactery, in the hands of the IFCC. Dunno how that would work, though. Sabine?

[KorvinStarmast]

Heck, it’d be hilarious if V brought the phylactery to the IFCC somehow. Then Xykon could be killed, wake up helpless in Hell inside his phylactery, in the hands of the IFCC. Dunno how that would work, though. Sabine? Yeah, I like that ... but Xykon isn't really who did Nale in, so I am not sure if it satisfies her desire for revenge.

[RatElemental]

Not saying he would deliberately engineer it that way - more that he'd be trying to fulfill it, see a way to end Xykon's threat, and take the opportunity if it presents itself.

My thought this morning to tie it all together was that V will lose all spellcasting, make themself into a magic item somehow (can a person be a magic item in D&D?), trick Xykon into blasting them, and then he's just a lich with no spells. How he'd then get trapped for all eternity is something I have not worked out yet.

1. If V loses all spellcasting then they can no longer make magic items.

2. Intelligent magic items do exist but I'm not aware of any surefire way to turn an existing person into one as opposed to make an existing item intelligent.

3. Even if V somehow managed to become a magic item destroying it wouldn't strip spellcasting. It's only disjoining artifacts that has a chance of doing that.

[Squire Doodad]

1. If V loses all spellcasting then they can no longer make magic items.

2. Intelligent magic items do exist but I'm not aware of any surefire way to turn an existing person into one as opposed to make an existing item intelligent.

3. Even if V somehow managed to become a magic item destroying it wouldn't strip spellcasting. It's only disjoining artifacts that has a chance of doing that.

Regardless, the plan strikes me as somewhat contrived and potentially tearing apart a perfectly good character on a perfectly non-physical redemption arc for what can probably be done another way.

If Xykon is to have his spells stripped, wouldn't it be better to have Durkon's Hammer of Thunderbolts (a minor artifact I think, so plausibly qualifying for the "artifacts have HUGE side effects when broken" list) be the one disjoined?

[CriticalFailure]

Regardless, the plan strikes me as somewhat contrived and potentially tearing apart a perfectly good character on a perfectly non-physical redemption arc for what can probably be done another way.

If Xykon is to have his spells stripped, wouldn't it be better to have Durkon's Hammer of Thunderbolts (a minor artifact I think, so plausibly qualifying for the "artifacts have HUGE side effects when broken" list) be the one disjoined?

That would make more sense. Though I don't think it's all that likely Xykon will lose his casting because that would make him a lot less menacing solely out of bad luck rather than the order doing much.

I don't see why people are so insistent that any time a character does bad things and feels bad about it, the aftermath must involve someone dying. Redemption equals death such a boring, played out trope that usually doesn't make any sense anyways. It's not like dying automatically undoes anything the character did in the past. If V dies I don't think it will say much about whether or not she will be redeemed. If she loses her casting it will have to show how her character is developing away from an obsession with arcane power and whether or not it's something she's really ready to let go of or if losing it is still something she can't deal with,

[Goblin_Priest]

Redcloak put the real one in a pouch which he hid on himself. His holy symbol is no longer the phylactery nor is it made to look like it.

[drazen]

Regardless, the plan strikes me as somewhat contrived and potentially tearing apart a perfectly good character on a perfectly non-physical redemption arc for what can probably be done another way.

If Xykon is to have his spells stripped, wouldn't it be better to have Durkon's Hammer of Thunderbolts (a minor artifact I think, so plausibly qualifying for the "artifacts have HUGE side effects when broken" list) be the one disjoined?

Would Roy's "Weapon of Legacy" sword qualify? It would come full circle from him freaking out about the sword in the Dungeon of Durokan to having him realize that it's a small price to pay for a permanently de-powered Xykon.

[brian 333]

Lose spellcasting is but one effect on a list of potential random results from destroying an artifact, and there is no guarantee it will be rolled, so I don't understand this degree of certainty that V will have it happen. Or Xykon. And artifacts are not easy to break and far more useful intact, so why would they want to do that anyway?

Breaking magic items carries no such penalty, so breaking Xykon's phylactery will result only in Xykon not being able to reform if destroyed.

[Fish]

If any caster will have his spellcasting powers stripped, the best candidate is a cleric. Each of them gets his spells from a god, and we know (or think we know) there’s a god-killing abomination in play.

Plus, it would be awesome to see Xykon hulk out and kill The Dark One.

[ti'esar]

I used to be rather inclined to believe the idea that V will lose spellcasting ability as a result of destroying the Crimson Mantle. Now that we know how important it is to come to a negotiated resolution with the Dark One, though, I no longer think it's likely.

[SodaQueen]

Xykon will not die. He will resurrect Tsukiko as a fellow lich and her love will bring him to the side of righteousness.

He might die trying to heroically save the world from the Snarl after his change of heart.

[GooeyChewie]

No one kills Xykon. He lives. [/peterfalk]

Came to find this response. Was not disappointed.

[Cirin]

Would Roy's "Weapon of Legacy" sword qualify? It would come full circle from him freaking out about the sword in the Dungeon of Durokan to having him realize that it's a small price to pay for a permanently de-powered Xykon.

No, an artifact, by definition, is a weapon that cannot be crafted by player characters.

A minor artifact is a magic item that, while powerful, doesn't completely re-write the campaign. . .it just can't be created by PC's (as a game balance thing). Durkon's Hammer of Thunderbolts is a textbook example of one. A Deck of Many Things is another famous D&D minor artifact.

A greater artifact is a massive game-changing item that campaigns are often built around. The One Ring in Lord of the Rings is the archetypical classic example of a Greater Artifact (the Hand of Vecna is another famous one in D&D lore). Within OotS, the Crimson Mantle is one (I think they said that in Start of Darkness, I don't have my book with me now).

A Weapon of Legacy is just a magic item, a rather powerful one, but most of it's abilities beyond being a +5 greatsword with some kind of anti-undead ability are Roy's abilities, not the sword. Well, Roy's abilities he uses the sword to invoke, but they are tied to Roy, not the sword, if someone else picked up the sword and tried to use those abilities, they couldn't.

If Xykon tried to Disjunction Redcloak's cloak, then there would be a 1% per level chance (so roughly 25%, I forgot what level they currently estimate him at) it would actually work, and then he'd have to make a DC 25 Will save (pretty easy for Xykon, but he could blow it on a Natural 1) or permanently lose all spellcasting. So, it is at least a possible outcome of Xykon and Redcloak fighting, if Xykon got very unlucky.

[Raimun]

I can see that it could be Roy.

But most likely? Halberdier-guy #7.

[diremage]

Food for thought: Roy already killed Xykon once, but that didn't qualify his father to enter Celestia. Roy has spent a lot of time and effort planning to defeat each of Xykon's defenses in detail, so he'll probably do something like Nale did to Malak with a one-strip kill (since if it takes multiple strips, and if we agree that he is sufficiently prepared, then we are just haggling over price). The score is Roy 1 Xykon 1, but Roy is really trying hard to get the next point and Xykon just...isn't bothered by it.

BUT that's not enough to get Eugene into Celestia. Then Redcloak, after a persuasive chat with Durkon, destroys the phylactery and that STILL isn't enough to get Eugene into Celestia.

Belkar is already slated for a "redemption equals death" arc, but he dies in such a way that it qualifies as a happy ending, even for him. He probably sacrifices himself to save the cat from Xykon and dies with a smile on his face.

[CriticalFailure]

I used to be rather inclined to believe the idea that V will lose spellcasting ability as a result of destroying the Crimson Mantle. Now that we know how important it is to come to a negotiated resolution with the Dark One, though, I no longer think it's likely.

The Crimson Mantle is essential to completing the plan. Destroying it could force Redcloak to reconsider.

[Squire Doodad]

The Crimson Mantle is essential to completing the plan. Destroying it could force Redcloak to reconsider.

Destroying it would also sharply reduce the odds of RC cooperating at all.

It's essentially destroying an artifact that could be used to help enable the end of the world, but it is still a highly coveted holy artifact that a religion feels very strongly about for non end of the world purposes, plus it is the only memento the high priest has of their long dead brother.

[RatElemental]

Destroying it would also sharply reduce the odds of RC cooperating at all.

It's essentially destroying an artifact that could be used to help enable the end of the world, but it is still a highly coveted holy artifact that a religion feels very strongly about for non end of the world purposes, plus it is the only memento the high priest has of their long dead brother.

Depends on if destroying it will also blank the knowledge of how to do the ritual out of Redcloak's mind. Haven't read start of darkness so I don't know if there's ever been a case where two goblins have worn the mantle and knew its secrets at the same time, which would suggest that once you have it you have it.

[Quebbster]

Depends on if destroying it will also blank the knowledge of how to do the ritual out of Redcloak's mind. Haven't read start of darkness so I don't know if there's ever been a case where two goblins have worn the mantle and knew its secrets at the same time, which would suggest that once you have it you have it.

Without spoiling anything I can still say there aren't any simultaneous wearers of the Crimson Mantle in Start of Darkness.

[Squire Doodad]

Depends on if destroying it will also blank the knowledge of how to do the ritual out of Redcloak's mind. Haven't read start of darkness so I don't know if there's ever been a case where two goblins have worn the mantle and knew its secrets at the same time, which would suggest that once you have it you have it.

My point was that the Mantle is very dear to RC, being not only the holy artifact of the religion he is the high priest of, but also the only physical memento he has left of his brother.

Say what you will about the scenario that led to RC getting the Mantle, it is important to him for numerous reasons.

[Sir_Norbert]

Belkar is already slated for a "redemption equals death" arc

Forum speculation is the same as confirmed fact, then. Duly noted.

[diremage]

Forum speculation is the same as confirmed fact, then. Duly noted.

Snark is the same thing as a reasoned argument, then. Duly noted.

Belkar canonically is endeavoring to at least pretend to have character growth and has had several hints that his Evil alignment is being strongly influenced by those around him towards Not-Evil.

He is also canonically scheduled to die before the end of the in-comic year and it would make no dramatic sense for the team to save the world, kill the Bad Guy, and then have Belkar die of Sphinx Pox a week after the party splits.

So Belkar has two plot streams, the Belkar's Redemption stream and the Belkar's Gonna Die stream. Occam's +5 Edge of Sharpness dictates that, for narrative efficiency, the story must cross the streams. Ergo, by induction we show that Belkar's Redemption = Death. Erat demonstrandum.

[Schroeswald]

Snark is the same thing as a reasoned argument, then. Duly noted.

Belkar canonically is endeavoring to at least pretend to have character growth and has had several hints that his Evil alignment is being strongly influenced by those around him towards Not-Evil.

He is also canonically scheduled to die before the end of the in-comic year and it would make no dramatic sense for the team to save the world, kill the Bad Guy, and then have Belkar die of Sphinx Pox a week after the party splits.

So Belkar has two plot streams, the Belkar's Redemption stream and the Belkar's Gonna Die stream. Occam's +5 Edge of Sharpness dictates that, for narrative efficiency, the story must cross the streams. Ergo, by induction we show that Belkar's Redemption = Death. Erat demonstrandum.
I would like to add that its technically possible that Belkar's death isn't redemptive, but it won't be, his last act for certain won't be Evil and I find it almost certain he'll be non-Evil by the end of OOTS. Technically Xykon might not be destroyed but that hasn't stopped me from making this thread.

[Squire Doodad]

I would like to add that its technically possible that Belkar's death isn't redemptive, but it won't be, his last act for certain won't be Evil and I find it almost certain he'll be non-Evil by the end of OOTS. Technically Xykon might not be destroyed but that hasn't stopped me from making this thread.

Belkar could redeem himself shortly before his death, and then be killed in the heat of the final battle.

That's not to say that he'll die from an errant meteor swarm though, he's going down like a badass.

[Schroeswald]

Belkar could redeem himself shortly before his death, and then be killed in the heat of the final battle.

That's not to say that he'll die from an errant meteor swarm though, he's going down like a badass.

I’d say that still counts as redemption=death, dying soon after redemption still counts even if it’s not immediately.

[Squire Doodad]

I’d say that still counts as redemption=death, dying soon after redemption still counts even if it’s not immediately.

In my experience "redeemed in death" suggests that the final action or the action that triggers their death (even if it doesn't take place for a bit) is done as an act of redemption, if not something that is revealed after they die. However, it is reasonable to assume that if one redeems themself and then shortly thereafter dies from unrelated causes that it still counts as being redeemed in death.

No, dying from Lich attack after being redeemed in a fight with that Lich would not count as being redeemed in death.

[Schroeswald]

In my experience "redeemed in death" suggests that the final action or the action that triggers their death (even if it doesn't take place for a bit) is done as an act of redemption, if not something that is revealed after they die. However, it is reasonable to assume that if one redeems themself and then shortly thereafter dies from unrelated causes that it still counts as being redeemed in death.

No, dying from Lich attack after being redeemed in a fight with that Lich would not count as being redeemed in death.

I'd say there is a minor (but existing) difference between redmption=death and redeemed in death, redeemed in death would require a causation but redemption=death just describes the trope that people who are redeemed don't get to survive very long (which as long as Belkar is redeemed would apply), the two just usually overlap.

[jwhouk]

And my argument is that dying of Sphinx Pox would be a nose-thumbing to everyone who thinks Belkar is going to do the Heroic Sacrifice thing.

Though dying in attacking the Snarl - similar to how Kraagor may have gone - could be another option.

[LadyEowyn]

I’d certainly prefer a destroyed-by-the-Snarl ending for Belkar to a redemption-equals-death one. I don’t think he’s nearly close enough to even regretting the multitudinous amounts of murder, slave-trading, etc. that he’s done for lulz, much less genuinely repenting of it or wanting to atone, to be considered non-evil. Heck, I doubt he even remembers a lot of it (or remembers it with sentiments other than “Heh, good times...:smallbiggrin:).

But I don’t really expect Redcloak to get a redemption arc either. I would love it if he did - not even necessarily becoming non-evil, just becoming on the same side as the protagonists, achieving his goal of goblinoid equality, and coming to terms with the wrong choices he’s made - but I don’t expect it. When you look at Miko, Tsukiko, and others, Rich is not kind to characters who practice self-deception.

[deuterio12]

I’d certainly prefer a destroyed-by-the-Snarl ending for Belkar to a redemption-equals-death one. I don’t think he’s nearly close enough to even regretting the multitudinous amounts of murder, slave-trading, etc. that he’s done for lulz, much less genuinely repenting of it or wanting to atone, to be considered non-evil. Heck, I doubt he even remembers a lot of it (or remembers it with sentiments other than “Heh, good times...:smallbiggrin:).

But I don’t really expect Redcloak to get a redemption arc either. I would love it if he did - not even necessarily becoming non-evil, just becoming on the same side as the protagonists, achieving his goal of goblinoid equality, and coming to terms with the wrong choices he’s made - but I don’t expect it. When you look at Miko, Tsukiko, and others, Rich is not kind to characters who practice self-deception.

So making Gobbotopia a reality that's recognized by other nations doesn't count for anything?

Redcloak has already succeeded in making goblins somebody you negotiate with and have diplomatic/trading relationships with instead of just xp fodder.

That it demanded allying with a bloodthirsty lich and carving a path of death and destruction accross one of the nations that frequently hunted goblins, so be it. They were made an example of, allowing Redcloak to declare "You saw what we did to Azure city and your puny 'liberation' force? Good. Now we're open to do peaceful negotiations and agreements as an alternative for mutual benefit. Or I can point Xykon your way next. Choose wisely."

[Squire Doodad]

So making Gobbotopia a reality that's recognized by other nations doesn't count for anything?

Redcloak has already succeeded in making goblins somebody you negotiate with and have diplomatic/trading relationships with instead of just xp fodder.

That it demanded allying with a bloodthirsty lich and carving a path of death and destruction accross one of the nations that frequently hunted goblins, so be it. They were made an example of, allowing Redcloak to declare "You saw what we did to Azure city and your puny 'liberation' force? Good. Now we're open to do peaceful negotiations and agreements as an alternative for mutual benefit. Or I can point Xykon your way next. Choose wisely."

RC, if he dies, looks like he's going to either get two fifths of a redemption arc or realize that at the last possible moment he started making real, meaningful changes...but threw them away to keep in line with the plan. A sort of bittersweet final moment.

He could also dies horribly with Xykon deciding to blast him because the Divine part of the ritual is done (the arcane part appears to be the second half. Thanks, Tsukiko!) or with him declaring that he will stop at nothing to make sure the plan works right before he does something extremely drastic. But that would be very harsh on the character, kind of mocking the readers, and suggesting that whoops, game over because RC is needed alive at least temporarily to help save the day for good. Or neutral.

[LadyEowyn]

Gobbotopia’s undeniably a major positive achievement for goblinkind. That’s why I’m scared it will be destroyed by the Snarl, as a consequence of Redcloak continuing to pursue the Plan.

[deuterio12]

Gobbotopia’s undeniably a major positive achievement for goblinkind. That’s why I’m scared it will be destroyed by the Snarl, as a consequence of Redcloak continuing to pursue the Plan.

Now that you mention it, that's a great point. There's still a massive rift right over Gobbotopia, so if eldritch tentacles start coming out and screwing the place over then the panicked messages from the local clerics that may be the extra motivation to make Redcloak to accept to seal the gates.

[KorvinStarmast]

Now that you mention it, that's a great point. There's still a massive rift right over Gobbotopia, so if eldritch tentacles start coming out and screwing the place over then the panicked messages from the local clerics that may be the extra motivation to make Redcloak to accept to seal the gates. That would be a neat element of book VII, and would be consistent with the original "leakage" we saw when Soon's wife MiJung (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html) got taken, and when the Snarl erupted somewhat in the desert.

[Squire Doodad]

That would be a neat element of book VII, and would be consistent with the original "leakage" we saw when Soon's wife MiJung (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html) got taken, and when the Snarl erupted somewhat in the desert.

Oddly enough, it seems that we have no instances of the Snarl coming out unprovoked. Assuming you classify "scanning magic (or supernatural stuff, or extraordinary abilities)" as a sort of action against the Snarl, the Snarl never seems to have attacked anyone aside from MiJung, who could have been scanning it, or things like the bears that may well have walked into it. Laurin scanned it, the Scribblers were actively trying to seal it when it was attacking them, and so on.

The Snarl doesn't seem to be doing any fighting or attacking unless provoked (with a very loose definition of provoked), and possibly won't actually deal meaningful damage until the last rift is opened.

[deuterio12]

Oddly enough, it seems that we have no instances of the Snarl coming out unprovoked. Assuming you classify "scanning magic (or supernatural stuff, or extraordinary abilities)" as a sort of action against the Snarl, the Snarl never seems to have attacked anyone aside from MiJung, who could have been scanning it, or things like the bears that may well have walked into it. Laurin scanned it, the Scribblers were actively trying to seal it when it was attacking them, and so on.

The Snarl doesn't seem to be doing any fighting or attacking unless provoked (with a very loose definition of provoked), and possibly won't actually deal meaningful damage until the last rift is opened.

Redcloak was studying the rift while they were in Gobbotopia I recall. It would've been strange if he (or nobody else in the city) had ever used any scanning magic on the big glowing thing in the sky while in there. Even if Redcloak had proclaimed an edict "don't use any kind of magic in the big thing in the sky", the chances of some goblinoid caster disobeying or one of the non-goblinoid rebels doing it are pretty significant.

My bet is that it's lots of physical proximity that draws aggro, the Gobbotopia rift is pretty far up so it's hard to get close, while the rifts where tentacles did come from were much closer to the ground and had quite a lot of people gathering nearby for a significant amount of time.

[Squire Doodad]

Redcloak was studying the rift while they were in Gobbotopia I recall. It would've been strange if he (or nobody else in the city) had ever used any scanning magic on the big glowing thing in the sky while in there. Even if Redcloak had proclaimed an edict "don't use any kind of magic in the big thing in the sky", the chances of some goblinoid caster disobeying or one of the non-goblinoid rebels doing it are pretty significant.

My bet is that it's lots of physical proximity that draws aggro, the Gobbotopia rift is pretty far up so it's hard to get close, while the rifts where tentacles did come from were much closer to the ground and had quite a lot of people gathering nearby for a significant amount of time.

Proximity qualifying for "under attack" probably works better; now that I think about it Laurin had scanned it via Clairvoyance prior to her favor (when she scanned it a second time).

Regardless, the Snarl seems to be much more passive at the moment than it was in the past; if we assume that those were exaggerated, it is possible that the Snarl isn't attacking so much as it is defending itself until it breaks free and attempts to devour the world itself.

I'd like to know when was the last time that the Snarl idly got loose without a ridiculously long wait period. If it's been thousands of worlds since the Snarl actually devoured a world instead of waiting for the end times to do so, it may have climbed the intellectual ladder and gained sentience, whether high level or low level. The brain does has an obscene amount of neurons, each of which is very complex; manifesting soul energy into a coherent mind on one's own through nothing but souls would take a very long time.
The idea of the Snarl thinking its a child trying to clean up after the mean adults (gods) is kind of funny though.

[hroþila]

There was also a goblin cleric who allegedly got undone in the act of putting a chicken through the rift. Physical proximity seems to be the main thing, but I wouldn't be surprised if magical prodding alerted the Snarl and made an attack more likely. Blackwing and Xykon weren't attacked, but I suppose they weren't quite as close to the rift as the victims who did trigger an attack.

As for the Snarl seeming more passive, I think that's a big assumption. You're comparing a gated Snarl to a free-roaming Snarl.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Blackwing and Xykon weren't attacked, but I suppose they weren't quite as close to the rift as the victims who did trigger an attack.

More importantly, possibly, the rift that they were peering through was in high orbit above the Snarl's planet. The others - the one in the desert definitely, likely the one the goblin priest messed with - are at surface level.

Grey Wolf

[a_flemish_guy]

There was also a goblin cleric who allegedly got undone in the act of putting a chicken through the rift. Physical proximity seems to be the main thing, but I wouldn't be surprised if magical prodding alerted the Snarl and made an attack more likely. Blackwing and Xykon weren't attacked, but I suppose they weren't quite as close to the rift as the victims who did trigger an attack.

As for the Snarl seeming more passive, I think that's a big assumption. You're comparing a gated Snarl to a free-roaming Snarl.

soon's wife was snuffed by prodding the portal
one of the previous redcloacks was snuffed out by prodding the portal
the snarl only apeared when laurin began prodding the portal

I'm pretty sure at this point that at least at this level of tears it's the interaction with the portals that grabs the snarl's attention