Champion as a feat instead.

[Spacehamster]

Throw him out even tho I actually enjoy it for its simplicity and add the good old improved critical that doubles threat range but instead of double let it be 19-20, good idea? Could otherwise keep him and just make the feat give champ 18-20 and later 17-20 crit range?

[Arkhios]

Throw him out even tho I actually enjoy it for its simplicity and add the good old improved critical that doubles threat range but instead of double let it be 19-20, good idea? Could otherwise keep him and just make the feat give champ 18-20 and later 17-20 crit range?

Double threat range and 19-20 is exactly the same thing. Especially since all attacks critically hit on a natural 20.

natural 20 means a 5% chance to crit.

natural 19 and 20 means a 10% chance to crit.

10%/5% = 2

[NNescio]

Double threat range and 19-20 is exactly the same thing. Especially since all attacks critically hit on a natural 20.

natural 20 means a 5% chance to crit.

natural 19 and 20 means a 10% chance to crit.

10%/5% = 2

Wording it that way helps prevent stacking with other similar effects, such as the Hexblade's Curse (which IIRC is the only [1st-party content] example other than Improved Critical). It is also less ambiguous.

[JackPhoenix]

Wording it that way helps prevent stacking with other similar effects, such as the Hexblade's Curse (which IIRC is the only [1st-party content] example other than Improved Critical). It is also less ambiguous.

It's also completely redundant, because there is no "threat range" in 5e. There's nothing to double.

[Trickery]

Would be a strong feat on quite a few characters, and we'd lose remarkable athlete which is a cool feature. I'd just roll Champion into Battlemaster. It wouldn't break anything, and people would still play Eldritch Knights and Cavaliers.

Purple Dragon Knight would still be bad - no surprise.

[Teaguethebean]

Purple Dragon Knight would still be bad - no surprise.

What if we rolled champions into them?

[Reevh]

Maybe give it to two weapon/single 1h weapon fighting as a feat? There's already Great Weapon Master for great weapons and Sharpshooter for ranged weapons. Maybe giving that 19-20 crit to the smaller weapons would be handy. Then again, it might be OP for rogues (who could just multiclass into Hexblade for this benefit anyway I suppose).

[Dork_Forge]

What if we rolled champions into them?

Giving the expanded crit range at 3rd for Dragon Knights would actually make it a pretty good subclass imo, it has potential as a support Fighter but no one really picks it (though it's understandable why they wouldn't).

[Vogie]

I probably wouldn't do it as a feat, but if you wanted to also reintroduce keen weapons (that is, weapons that already have an expanded crit range as a function of the weapon), then having a "stacking threat range" like previous editions could be interesting.

Anyone with a Keen Rapier, with the above design, would be able to crit on a 19-20 at level 3. But a Champion Fighter would be able to crit on an 18-20 at 3, and with a 17-20 at 15, with said Keen Rapier.

That also keeps the ability in the DM's hands, rather than just a feat that anyone can pick up.

[Trickery]

I probably wouldn't do it as a feat, but if you wanted to also reintroduce keen weapons (that is, weapons that already have an expanded crit range as a function of the weapon), then having a "stacking threat range" like previous editions could be interesting.

Anyone with a Keen Rapier, with the above design, would be able to crit on a 19-20 at level 3. But a Champion Fighter would be able to crit on an 18-20 at 3, and with a 17-20 at 15, with said Keen Rapier.

That also keeps the ability in the DM's hands, rather than just a feat that anyone can pick up.

To this point, can I take a sec to complain about vorpal weapons this edition? They don't do their vorpal thing on a crit; they trigger when you "roll a 20 on the attack roll." Not a crit, a 20. That means that the Champion gets no added benefit from picking up a weapon like this. They'd be better off as a Battlemaster with Elven Accuracy using Trip Attack to gain advantage. It really rustles my jimmies. I think the designers were afraid of paralysis shenanigans or something.

[Mordaedil]

Champion is sort of a subclass for newcomers who don't really know the game that well and allow them to keep up pace without having too many things to keep in mind at any time and still feel great at certain points.

For a private game, why not just make their benefits into feats and declare the class doesn't exist? For your private game, you probably don't have a bunch of newbies at D&D. And then it is perfectly fine to do this without any fear of keeping it balanced.

[Spacehamster]

On another note, how would just transferring the champion features over to the barbarian chassi work out? Almost seem to fit better there the more I think about it.

For example extra weapon style would all of a sudden be worthwhile, would have to rename it into martial prowess or something such ofc and limit it to defense, two handed and twf.

[Tanarii]

Champion is sort of a subclass for newcomers who don't really know the game that well and allow them to keep up pace without having too many things to keep in mind at any time and still feel great at certain points.Yeah. Complaints about Champion always completely miss the point. Unless they've got previous gaming experience without somehow having started with D&D (exceptionally rare IMX), newcomers to gaming are almost always overwhelmed just having to keep track of ability scores, hit points, attack rolls, and saving throws.

[DarkKnightJin]

What if we rolled champions into them?

..I'm doing this. It's 2 subclasses that almost never get picked. I'm gonna lump the PDK and Champion in together.
Does that mean the Champion is suddenly not the simplest subclass anymore? Yes.
Would it make the subclass a viable pick? Perhaps.

[Tanarii]

Would it make the subclass a viable pick? Perhaps.Champion is already viable. Experienced players generally just don't like it.

(If you're referring to PDK, no comment.)

[Amechra]

..I'm doing this. It's 2 subclasses that almost never get picked. I'm gonna lump the PDK and Champion in together.
Does that mean the Champion is suddenly not the simplest subclass anymore? Yes.
Would it make the subclass a viable pick? Perhaps.

It would actually be a very viable pick. The two subclasses tend to have exciting features at levels where the other subclass has dull features, and the overall package doesn't beat out going Battle Master or Eldritch Knight.