What do I play for this group?

[jaappleton]

My old home group is starting up again, for the first time in quite awhile. We've played D&D before, but we played 4E, and only one or two people have played a couple 5E one shots on occasion since.

So the table is familiar with D&D, but not too familiar with 5E.

Nobody is really decided as to what they're playing... So all 'party roles' are up in the air. I'm essentially looking for something that'll be helpful regardless and I somewhat keep the group afloat as they learn to swim, so to speak.

I was heavily considering Paladin, as it lets me tank a bit, as well out dish out some good damage is things get a little overwhelming, as well as heal a bit in a pinch. I'm already playing an Ancients Paladin in a Roll20 CoS game, so I'm kinda against double dipping like that, but it'd be a great class for the group.

Another thought I had was Bard. Really focus on buffing my allies to let them shine, as I'm one to high five my fellow players when they hit only because of my Faerie Fire being active, I'm cool with being a buffer / debuffer. So using Cutting Words to make enemies miss could be really clutch.

Last idea was a Grave Cleric. Can kinda off-tank a bit, has some nice features to keep everyone upright. Especially the lv6 feature. Though Life and even Light is equally as appealing for this, I think.

We're starting at lv3, FWIW.

[Nidgit]

I'd primarily say wait until you know what other people are interested in. As the most experienced player, you're in the best position to fill in the gals and hold the party together.

Totally agree that Paladin makes a great lynchpin that boosts the rest of the group! But other group-focused melee classes include Ancestral Guardian Barbarian, Life and War Cleric, and Battle Master and Cavalier Fighter. For a more magic-focused supporter, non-Moon Druids, Clerics, Bards, and Sorcerers or Wizards built for control/buffs can all dramatically increase a party's prospects.

So yeah, you've got plenty of options. Check out the rest of your group first to get a sense of what they'll need.

[Keravath]

Just for reference, I've had a lot of fun with a lore bard X/ Hexblade warlock 2. They are a great supporting character but the hexblade dip offers the armor needed to tank a bit if needed as well as agonizing blast for useful at will ranged damage. You can make it shine if you need to when doing damage is the best way to help the team but most of the time you can use the bard spells to help everyone else shine more. With the right picks for Magical secrets the character can fill almost any role and will be good at skills/face tasks by default. Lore bard 3/warlock 2 at level 5 was what I went with and don't regret the delayed spell progression (which also lets other pure caster classes shine a bit more while the bard is still effective). At level 7, everything more or less evens out and I never noticed much difference being a level of spells behind after getting the 3rd level spells.

[Nagog]

I've had a few similar situations like this, and my personal favorites for the "Jack-Of-All-Trades" party role is are these:

Oath of Trickery Paladin: UA, but provides some roguish abilities on top of the high versatility of the Paladin
Bladesong Wizard with Social/Roguish spells: Allows for some tanking (ish, need high Dex and Int for it though), some roguish abilities, and the spell slinging abilities of a Wizard.
Bard of pretty much any college, for the reasons you've mentioned above. Support players unite!

[jaappleton]

I've had a few similar situations like this, and my personal favorites for the "Jack-Of-All-Trades" party role is are these:

Oath of Trickery Paladin: UA, but provides some roguish abilities on top of the high versatility of the Paladin
Bladesong Wizard with Social/Roguish spells: Allows for some tanking (ish, need high Dex and Int for it though), some roguish abilities, and the spell slinging abilities of a Wizard.
Bard of pretty much any college, for the reasons you've mentioned above. Support players unite!

If we're talking support, how do you feel about Artificer? I normally don't like it as I typically favor big damage spike style PCs in my normal group (We're all optimizers... Well, we became them after our third near-TPK in CoS :P ) but it has a lot to offer a group. My only question is, does it offer more than what a full caster like Wizard, Bard or Cleric can bring?

[Bobthewizard]

I wouldn't think about it too much. If you haven't played a 5e campaign yet, look through the player's handbook and pick a class that looks interesting to you. Don't try a multi class yet.

I think Paladin, Ranger, Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster are good for someone learning the game so you might want to recommend those to players that haven't played as much. You start with melee and some skills and then add spells after a few sessions.

For anyone playing a full caster, make sure they read a guide to get an understanding of the mechanics of the spells. Some spells look interesting but don't work well in practice.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

Just going to throw out a different approach to what the party "needs."

You could consider playing something that would just be really fun for the party and get you into ridiculous situations. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. But playing an instigating character can be really helpful depending on the personalities of the players. Often times I've found that newer groups have trouble deciding what to do or feeling free to explore the world and push beyond what the DM has prepared.

I would suggest something like a Barbarian. For as much of a cliche as the Big Stupid Fighter is, it's also really funny when it's done well.

An example would be my friend who plays Krawgg. I created this character when I was teaching them how to play (then I joined the party so one of them could DM once they knew the rules). I wasn't expecting him to keep playing this Goliath Rogue, but he did. He made him a kleptomaniac who literally couldn't help himself. He's good-hearted, but also runs some organized crime in various cities. He's a tall, imposing, giant of a man that can hide better than my character, a deep gnome. It's a constant mix of him being really dumb (not in an obnoxious way) and also being the absolute best at being a Rogue. The 20 Str and 18 Dex help a lot there when adding in Expertise.

The key here is that it's really, really funny because he plays the character so well. I'd say that 75% of the inside jokes for the party have had to do directly with him in some way. He's either instigating something or pulling off an incredibly difficult pickpocket or recruiting people to work in his crime syndicate without them realizing or misunderstanding the most basic social interactions. He occasionally adds elements like waxing philosophically about how he's searching for meaning and doesn't even know if what he perceives is real. These moments of "transcendence" or "lucidity" add to the comic nature of his character because they come out of nowhere in response to simple questions often times.

So I'm not saying you need to do that exactly, but playing a character for the comedic relief it will bring to the game is a different perspective on what the party "needs." I think it's a valuable one though. A party without at least one funny character that can serve as an avenue for fun banter between the party or the NPCs is really helpful in having a good time. If your friends that you're playing with hate laughter, ignore everything that I've said.

Edit: A benefit of playing a simple class like Barbarian is that all of your energy can go into making your character social dynamic since you don't have to fret as much about mechanics. It also makes it easier for the party to anticipate your responses and actions so that they can get a good rapport with your character and play off of you well.

[zinycor]

As you are the most experienced player there, I would just wait for the others to pick their characters and then fill in the blanks.

[Seclora]

As you are the most experienced player there, I would just wait for the others to pick their characters and then fill in the blanks.

I'm in accord with this sentiment.

You've always struck me as one of the nicer, more capable players on the forum, so maybe give yourself a little credit on this one.

That said, anytime I play with less experienced players, I either play a Druid from level 1 and adapt to the needs of the party by level 2, or I wait and see what other people are playing. If you know your table (I have a caster, a Diplomancer, a rookie, and a 2e CG thief rogue at my table) you might be able to predict them in advance and pick the role they'll need. I play Clerics and Druids and then tank + heal these poor sods.


If we're talking support, how do you feel about Artificer? I normally don't like it as I typically favor big damage spike style PCs in my normal group (We're all optimizers... Well, we became them after our third near-TPK in CoS :P ) but it has a lot to offer a group. My only question is, does it offer more than what a full caster like Wizard, Bard or Cleric can bring?

The simple answer is, depends on the campaign.

Long Answer is, if you'll have downtime to craft, the Artificer is a fantastic choice that will ensure the party is equipped even if the DM is stingy with loot, and dole out Healing Potions or Spell Scrolls if they aren't. You're unlikely to outshine people, but you'll always have something to contribute with your cantrips and skills.

It's a pretty balanced class in play, from the two players I currently have playing Artificers. One of them is chucking fire everywhere and the other is crafting solutions to the problems that creates. My biggest concern, really, is that they'll probably swap it up when it inevitably gets printed and we'll have to rewrite character sheets a wee bit. minor concern really.

[Mikaleus]

Are you usually the party face within your group? If so go with a paladin oath you have yet to play yet. I may be a little bias cause I think Paladins are an awesome class.

That said, Shepherd Druid is fun. The totem even at level 3 has its uses in supporting the party through temp HP and extra healing.

[DevilMcam]

If you want à généraliste supporty character d advise Light cleric or celestial warlock (there is à généraliste build posted in this forum)
Decent ac with Medium armor and Shield, décent HPs with d8 hit dice and constitution.
Has Great support spells and features, blasting option and healing potential

[darknite]

All solid ideas. Wait and see what the others choose, then slot in the idea you like that makes a good fit.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

If you like the idea of being an instigator/initiator of the things your party does you also don't have to go with the BSF like I suggested above. You could be an inquisitive Wizard or Sorcerer who uses magic for literally everything, which would get you into some interesting situations all over the place. So there are multiple ways to go with that idea. Just thought I'd mention this to broaden the horizons for your ideas.

Again, a lot of people are saying you should wait until the party picks and then choose to fill the gaps. The thing is, 5e more than any other edition in my experience doesn't need the standard balance of classes. In our current campaign we don't have a healer or a tank and we're making it just fine through level 8. I think it's vastly more important to create a character that you know you'll wholeheartedly get behind and enjoy playing. Just my perspective.

[zinycor]

Again, a lot of people are saying you should wait until the party picks and then choose to fill the gaps. The thing is, 5e more than any other edition in my experience doesn't need the standard balance of classes. In our current campaign we don't have a healer or a tank and we're making it just fine through level 8. I think it's vastly more important to create a character that you know you'll wholeheartedly get behind and enjoy playing. Just my perspective.

Normally I would agree with you a 100%. But being that the op is already very proficient at the game, I would say that they could probably get enjoyment from any build they did. I believe the op would be better off by creating a character with the others, because that would make it fit better into the party.

[jdolch]

As you are the most experienced player there, I would just wait for the others to pick their characters and then fill in the blanks.

Wrong. The correct approach is to pick the strongest Multiclass Munchkin you can and then dominate every game session with your superior roleplaying ability. When the group decides to kick you out, you call them noobs and find people who are more worthy of your superior presence. Any person who thinks you "Can't Win at D&D" clearly just sucks at the game.

[jaappleton]

Wrong. The correct approach is to pick the strongest Multiclass Munchkin you can and then dominate every game session with your superior roleplaying ability. When the group decides to kick you out, you call them noobs and find people who are more worthy of your superior presence. Any person who thinks you "Can't Win at D&D" clearly just sucks at the game.

Full Disclosure: We started with 4E. If you remember 4E, you remember how silly things could get if you REALLY optimized... Not quite as silly as some of the 3.X stuff that sometimes required 'loose interpretation' (such as pun pun), but it could get pretty darn outrageous. And I was this guy.

The complete min-maxer, and occasionally the rest of the party combined could compare to the damage I put out in a single round.

......I like to think I've learned a lot since then. :smalltongue:

Its one of the reasons I'd like to play much more of a support style role as opposed to something such as a Barbarian. The Paladin idea was something like, "I could Smite when things start to get scary, and let them handle it otherwise".

Stuff like Faerie Fire, Bless, healing, everybody at every table always appreciates that. And I'm happy to be that guy dishing those out. I'd much, much rather cheer for my party members as they are in the spotlight, instead of hogging it. And I'll know the light shines just a little brighter on 'em because of what I'm doing.

[GlenSmash!]

If we're talking support, how do you feel about Artificer? I normally don't like it as I typically favor big damage spike style PCs in my normal group (We're all optimizers... Well, we became them after our third near-TPK in CoS :P ) but it has a lot to offer a group. My only question is, does it offer more than what a full caster like Wizard, Bard or Cleric can bring?

I was actually going to recommend Artificer. Your party would love you if make +1 Plate for your Tank, and a +1 Greatsword for your Barbarian.

I think Battlesmith can still do respectable damage perhaps not spiky damage though. Alchemist has awesome support power in reduced Potion crafting time and costs, and a boost to healing equal to Int modifier.

I have know idea how it compares to Wizard, Bard, or Cleric as I pretty only play classes with Extra Attack.

Comparing it to say the Paladin I think it has more versatile, and more specialized support (and sounds more fun to me) but lacks nova power and the consistency of Auras.

[Evaar]

Either wait for everyone else and then fill, or grab something like the Celestial Generalist build from LudicSavant's build thread. That's a character that can effectively slot into most roles, so whatever everyone else does you'll still be able to shore up the team's options.

[Seclora]

Full Disclosure: We started with 4E. If you remember 4E, you remember how silly things could get if you REALLY optimized... Not quite as silly as some of the 3.X stuff that sometimes required 'loose interpretation' (such as pun pun), but it could get pretty darn outrageous. And I was this guy.

The complete min-maxer, and occasionally the rest of the party combined could compare to the damage I put out in a single round.

......I like to think I've learned a lot since then. :smalltongue:

Its one of the reasons I'd like to play much more of a support style role as opposed to something such as a Barbarian. The Paladin idea was something like, "I could Smite when things start to get scary, and let them handle it otherwise".

Stuff like Faerie Fire, Bless, healing, everybody at every table always appreciates that. And I'm happy to be that guy dishing those out. I'd much, much rather cheer for my party members as they are in the spotlight, instead of hogging it. And I'll know the light shines just a little brighter on 'em because of what I'm doing.


Sounds to me like you know what you want to play then. :biggrin:

[napoleon_in_rag]

You should play a Normal Human Fighter Champion with a low Int and Wis. And role play having a low Int and Wis.

[zinycor]

Full Disclosure: We started with 4E. If you remember 4E, you remember how silly things could get if you REALLY optimized... Not quite as silly as some of the 3.X stuff that sometimes required 'loose interpretation' (such as pun pun), but it could get pretty darn outrageous. And I was this guy.

The complete min-maxer, and occasionally the rest of the party combined could compare to the damage I put out in a single round.

......I like to think I've learned a lot since then. :smalltongue:

Its one of the reasons I'd like to play much more of a support style role as opposed to something such as a Barbarian. The Paladin idea was something like, "I could Smite when things start to get scary, and let them handle it otherwise".

Stuff like Faerie Fire, Bless, healing, everybody at every table always appreciates that. And I'm happy to be that guy dishing those out. I'd much, much rather cheer for my party members as they are in the spotlight, instead of hogging it. And I'll know the light shines just a little brighter on 'em because of what I'm doing.


Sounds to me like you know what you want to play then. :biggrin:


I agree with Seclora, seems to me you already know what you want to play.

[McSkrag]

I don't think you can go wrong with a cleric, bard, or druid.

Pick a subclass that sounds like fun. They are just different flavors of gravy on the cake.

They can all contribute in and out of combat, are full casters with a wide variety of spells for all kinds of different situations, and are great at support.

Like a good rug, they really tie the party together.

[jaappleton]

I agree with Seclora, seems to me you already know what you want to play.

I know what style of character I want to play; One that allows the others to shine brighter by supporting them. No group ever has too much support!

But what’s the best support? I’m actually anti-Druid. Shepard, mechanically, is awesome but I’m greatly anti-minionmancy. It has its place, sure, but I don’t want to bog down the table by taking 15 minutes for my turn as I direct a hundred squirrels to take down goblins.

Lore Bard is great. So isn’t Valor and Swords. I’ve got two concepts: Warforged Bard named Optimus Rhyme, or a washed up singer that had a hit like 30 years ago and is still trying to act like he’s great. So... Eddie Money? :smalltongue:

Cleric is always good. Useful. Can heal great and buff well.

And Artificer is unique in that it can create things to help the party, and is also a decent support as well.

[Fable Wright]

Things that are always welcome in a party:

Druid. You're against Shepherd, but Moon druid when played as a casting-hybrid class has a lot of potential. If you need battlefield control, you got that. If you need more melee or scouting, you've got that. If you need damage, use Moonbeam and turn into a Giant Scorpion, grab people and yo-yo them in and out of the Orbital Death Laser. If you need healing, you've got Healing Spirit and also goodberries, to turn your leftover slots at the end of the day into heals for the next.

Cleric. You can never have too much Spirit Guardians.

Ever.

You know the class, you love it, and you're a party-supporting machine. No one will ever complain. For fun, Arcana Cleric can be a nifty mix to the formula, to add in some Wizardy goodness.

Bard I'm actually against, as your spells known can gimp you if you pick them before the party is fully settled.

[Seclora]

I know what style of character I want to play; One that allows the others to shine brighter by supporting them. No group ever has too much support!
I'd second that sentiment, although I was thinking you had settled on Paladin. You'd make a good one, based on your experiences as a player. I'm always a little iffy on Paladins; too many bad stories and one very bad experience, but it sounds like you've got the conscience and introspection to do it well. Ancients Paladin could pull off a lot of the sorts of things you spoke of wanting to do. Something to consider.


But what’s the best support? I’m actually anti-Druid. Shepard, mechanically, is awesome but I’m greatly anti-minionmancy. It has its place, sure, but I don’t want to bog down the table by taking 15 minutes for my turn as I direct a hundred squirrels to take down goblins.
I love Shepherd personally, but I get it. Coincidentally, Squirrel Girl.


Lore Bard is great. So isn’t Valor and Swords. I’ve got two concepts: Warforged Bard named Optimus Rhyme, or a washed up singer that had a hit like 30 years ago and is still trying to act like he’s great. So... Eddie Money? :smalltongue:
Optimus Rhyme should Rap. It just feels right. Even with sub-optimal spell choices, you still have a lot of tools to make your party stronger. If you're not sure what your party is going to do, you could always pick up utility spells while you get a feel for things.


Cleric is always good. Useful. Can heal great and buff well.
You don't seem enthusiastic about Cleric though. They're a good class, but nobody blames you for not wanting to be designated as 'the healer'. I prefer Grave, but War is another solid choice.


And Artificer is unique in that it can create things to help the party, and is also a decent support as well.
Play an altruist Alchemist who hopes to one day start a shop and sell affordable cures and potions. If you ever decide to change characters, you have a ready reason for him to stop adventuring and the DM can use him as the party's newest potion supplier.
Don't be a mad scientist. Everyone plays a mad scientist artificer. If you want to be a mad scientist, be a Tempest Cleric with mood lightning, do it right.

[Mikaleus]

I know what style of character I want to play; One that allows the others to shine brighter by supporting them. No group ever has too much support!

But what’s the best support? I’m actually anti-Druid. Shepard, mechanically, is awesome but I’m greatly anti-minionmancy. It has its place, sure, but I don’t want to bog down the table by taking 15 minutes for my turn as I direct a hundred squirrels to take down goblins.

Lore Bard is great. So isn’t Valor and Swords. I’ve got two concepts: Warforged Bard named Optimus Rhyme, or a washed up singer that had a hit like 30 years ago and is still trying to act like he’s great. So... Eddie Money? :smalltongue:

Cleric is always good. Useful. Can heal great and buff well.

And Artificer is unique in that it can create things to help the party, and is also a decent support as well.

Anti Druid ? *gives a disapproving look*
I can fully understand your anti minionmancy thoughts.

As you’re anti Druid, I’ll suggest the Lore Bard - I agree with Seclora that you don’t seem to be enthusiastic about the Cleric.

Optimus Rhyme is a brilliant idea

[Nidgit]

Shepherd Druid isn't the only support Druid! Dreams Druid is tailor-made for bonus action ranged healing and the various Land Druids offer excellent extra spells and spell slots.

I'd also re-recommend Divine Sorcerer- one of the biggest spell lists in the game and some fun backstory potential.