Fixing the Zombie Beholder

[Laserlight]

Next week's session is the last one of the campaign, and I want to use a Beholder Zombie because the party ( L5 tempest cleric, AT rogue, and wild magic sorc, plus half a dozen goblin mercenaries and an eleven year old girl with a couple of molotovs) isn't tough enough to face a real Beholder. And...the Zombie Beholder kind of sucks. The eye rays are:

1) Paralyzing Ray: if you make the save, nothing happens. If you fail, you're paralyzed for a minute or until you do make the save. "Paralyzed" doesn't sound like "fun".

2) Fear: "A frightened creature has disadvantage on Ability Checks and Attack rolls while the source of its fear is within line of sight, and the creature can’t willingly move closer to the source of its fear." So, they just need to break line of sight, which will be possible on this battlefield. That one's okay.

3) Enervation: Take 36 damage, half if you save.

4) Disintegration: Take 45 damage, or nothing if you save.

Now, these PCs all have about 38HP, so Enervation is likely to kill them if they've taken any damage at all, and Disintegration can take them from full health to "tear up your charsheet" in one bad roll. (Oh, and one Beholder Zombie seems to be a Medium encounter for 3xL5!)

Granted, I can "randomly" target a goblin with Disintegration, but that seems like a poor solution. I'm thinking splitting it into two beams of 5d8 ("see the split pupil in that eye?") at separate targets. If it vaporizes a goblin, good; it won't kill a fresh PC; if it kills little Eleanor, well, she shoulda stayed in cover.

That leaves me with Enervation, not quite as bad as Disintegrate, but I'd rather have it do something other than pure damage. And Paralyzing Ray just has me expecting our hapless thief to blow the roll and then watch the rest of the fight as a spectator. What are some better Eye Rays to apply?

[Zuras]

If your issue is avoiding accidentally killing PCs with no recourse, you could sub in a lesser beholderkin like a Gauth, which is CR 6 but less likely to one-shot a PC. Alternately, replace the Paralysis Ray with a Slow effect (like the Stone golem), and cut the damage of all the damage dealing rays in half but let it use two/turn, no duplicates.

[Kane0]

It's a trope that zombies frequently come missing parts. Have it missing a couple 'random' appendages (eyestalks), or it's barely attached and doesn't work the way it should.

[Tawmis]

Not sure on the specifics of your campaign - but you can have a (weak) Necromancer basically raising this Beholder to Zombie status (could be this Necromancer worshiped this Beholder or some such in its previous life). Party has to stop the Necromancer from completing the spell. The Zombie Beholder is already risen, but gaining more power as each round passes by.

So effectively stopping the Necromancer before he completes the spell (5 rounds, for example) will prevent the Beholder Zombie from being at full power.

[Laserlight]

If your issue is avoiding accidentally killing PCs with no recourse, you could sub in a lesser beholderkin like a Gauth, which is CR 6 but less likely to one-shot a PC. Alternately, replace the Paralysis Ray with a Slow effect (like the Stone golem), and cut the damage of all the damage dealing rays in half but let it use two/turn, no duplicates.

Yep, for two of the three players, it's their first D&D campaign; I want to have them worried, and i don't mind killing them late in the fight if that's the way the dice fall, but I don't want to one-shot them.

The BBEG is going to sow dragon's teeth, with regular zombies coming out of the ground on turn 1, a few ogre zombies on turn 2, and the zombeholder on turn 3. (The BBEG is having a bad day. His girlfriend took their daughter and ran off, someone (the PCs) kidnapped his cooks, someone (the PCs) set his girlfriend's house on fire, the PCs have killed a few of his guards and are about to come assassinate him, and his employer has sent a demon to terminate their relationship. I expect the PCs will get to fight the demon too).

I'll mash together some of the Gauth rays, and split the damage on Disintegrate. That'll vaporize some of their goblin mercs, which will be educational.

[LudicSavant]

Next week's session is the last one of the campaign, and I want to use a Beholder Zombie because the party ( L5 tempest cleric, AT rogue, and wild magic sorc, plus half a dozen goblin mercenaries and an eleven year old girl with a couple of molotovs) isn't tough enough to face a real Beholder. And...the Zombie Beholder kind of sucks. The eye rays are:

1) Paralyzing Ray: if you make the save, nothing happens. If you fail, you're paralyzed for a minute or until you do make the save. "Paralyzed" doesn't sound like "fun".

2) Fear: "A frightened creature has disadvantage on Ability Checks and Attack rolls while the source of its fear is within line of sight, and the creature can’t willingly move closer to the source of its fear." So, they just need to break line of sight, which will be possible on this battlefield. That one's okay.

3) Enervation: Take 36 damage, half if you save.

4) Disintegration: Take 45 damage, or nothing if you save.

Now, these PCs all have about 38HP, so Enervation is likely to kill them if they've taken any damage at all, and Disintegration can take them from full health to "tear up your charsheet" in one bad roll. (Oh, and one Beholder Zombie seems to be a Medium encounter for 3xL5!)

Granted, I can "randomly" target a goblin with Disintegration, but that seems like a poor solution. I'm thinking splitting it into two beams of 5d8 ("see the split pupil in that eye?") at separate targets. If it vaporizes a goblin, good; it won't kill a fresh PC; if it kills little Eleanor, well, she shoulda stayed in cover.

That leaves me with Enervation, not quite as bad as Disintegrate, but I'd rather have it do something other than pure damage. And Paralyzing Ray just has me expecting our hapless thief to blow the roll and then watch the rest of the fight as a spectator. What are some better Eye Rays to apply?

A little strategy can go a long way against zombies.

Beholder Zombies can only move 20 feet per round, and can't use eye rays if they can't see you. Throw down some fog or darkness or whatever and they're screwed.

They're also very easy to get the drop on, with a passive perception of 9 and negative stealth score. And aren't likely to get the drop on you, either.

Enervation isn't really all that "likely to kill them if they've taken damage at all," because they'll just hit the zero hp gate and the Beholder Zombie doesn't have multiple actions to finish anyone off.

The only one that's really dangerous from a lone Beholder Zombie is Disintegrate, and you can do a lot in terms of counterplay to reduce your chances there. For example, its slow speed means that you can easily take advantage of cover, which can provide you +2 (half cover), +5 (three quarters cover), or full immunity (total cover) against the modest dexterity saves. And of course you can block its vision and other such things.

Personally, when it comes to things that can take out players quickly, I will often foreshadow them or telegraph their more dangerous abilities. Like, say, handing out stories about soldiers having to hide in the trenches from the instantly deadly eye rays of the necromancer king's minions, until the support mages were able to drop some smoke on it.

If you still want to sand away the sharp edges of the Beholder Zombie, consider looking to the eye rays of the full Beholder for inspiration. Telekinetic Ray, Sleep Ray, Slowing Ray, Petrification Ray. That sort of thing.

There are also some other lower CR Beholder-like foes you could use. For example, the Gauth from Volo's Guide to Monsters.

[Dalebert]

Zombie beholders aren't nearly as scary BUT...
Chance of disintegrate with regular beholder: 10%
Chance of disintegrate with zombie beholder: 25%

[Zuras]

The only one that's really dangerous from a lone Beholder Zombie is Disintegrate, and you can do a lot in terms of counterplay to reduce your chances there. For example, its slow speed means that you can easily take advantage of cover, which can provide you +2 (half cover), +5 (three quarters cover), or full immunity (total cover) against the modest dexterity saves. And of course you can block its vision and other such things.

Personally, when it comes to things that can take out players quickly, I will often foreshadow them or telegraph their more dangerous abilities. Like, say, handing out stories about soldiers having to hide in the trenches from the instantly deadly eye rays of the necromancer king's minions, until the support mages were able to drop some smoke on it.



The Beholder Zombie’s problem is it’s CR 5 but has a 1 in 4 chance of hitting like a CR 13 creature on a single target.

In AL, Zombie Beholders have perma-killed more PCs than any other single monster. At a convention, I once saw a Fighter in Total Cover get disintegrated...

Two Zombie Beholders, the first one disintegrated the tree he was hiding behind, then the DM rolled and got disintegrate for the second roll as well...bye bye Fighter.

So yeah, Zombie beholders are probably the biggest glass cannons of any CR 5 creatures out there, and easily the most common creatures a DM can unexpectedly insta-kill a PC with. Only Shadows, Intellect Devourers and Mind Flayers even come close IME.

[LudicSavant]

The Beholder Zombie’s problem is it’s CR 5 but has a 1 in 4 chance of hitting like a CR 13 creature on a single target. I think that's overstating things. A CR 13 beholder fires not one but six eye rays per round, and can use its antimagic field too.

Besides, the main danger isn't even the damage, it's that it dusts you if it reduces you to zero.

[OverLordOcelot]

You could just replace eye rays with other beholder eye rays if disintegrate is worrying you, or drop the damage to something that will only kill them if they're badly injured. It will still look the same, just won't be as dangerous.

[Zuras]

You're exaggerating. A CR 13 beholder fires not one but six eye rays per round, and can use its antimagic field too.


Well yeah, but do you hit the same PC with all 3 eye rays when it takes its turn? Also, the Disintegration and Death rays do by far the most damage of all the eye ray options. A regular Beholder will be doing considerably more stuff, but not necessarily more damage. On average, probably twice the damage.

The Beholder Zombie is a funky creature, because it has a 1 in 4 chance of hitting like a truck, but can easily be completely ineffective if the DM rolls poorly for eye rays and PCs pass their saves..

[LudicSavant]

The Beholder Zombie is a funky creature, because it has a 1 in 4 chance of hitting like a truck, but can easily be completely ineffective if the DM rolls poorly for eye rays and PCs pass their saves..

It's not just rolling the wrong eye rays that can render it ineffective. For example, a level 1 fog cloud spell renders them unable to do anything to you other than use a piddly +3 to hit bite attack with Disadvantage.

[Laserlight]

So I'll give it a Dispel Magic, Slow, split Disintegrate, and...something else.

[Keravath]

Do any of your PCs have fog cloud or darkness spells?

If they have these spells and know anything about the creature then the encounter becomes trivial because the beholder zombie has to be able to see to use any of its eye rays. Casting either of these spells will mean that the zombie can't see them and they can't see the zombie which results in advantage and disadvantage cancelling and all attack rolls will be straight rolls. All it takes then is a few rounds to remove the hit points since the zombie only has a weak bite attack.

[stoutstien]

The zombie beholder is definitely a NPC that rewards good tactical decision vs just running up and hitting stuff.
I've only used one once that I recall and the party hooked bells to a bag full of rats and dumped them in the cave the zombie beholder was stuck in. While it was busy trying to fry/ eat the rats the cleric hit it with blindness. The party of three never took any damage other than the barbarian getting hit by the corpse when it fell on her.

[Nagog]

You could replace any eyestalk ability with pretty much any spell. Scorching Ray is nice and can deal massive damage if all rays are leveled at a single target, or if you're feeling merciful, have each ray target a different party member. Could have one eye have Dragon's Breath perhaps?

[Laserlight]

The party is an AT rogue, a Tempest cleric (so, Fog Cloud), and the experienced player is a Wild Sorc and undoubtedly has something like Fog Cloud or Darkness. It won't hurt them to see a Dispel Magic. ;-l

[Nhorianscum]

Next week's session is the last one of the campaign, and I want to use a Beholder Zombie because the party ( L5 tempest cleric, AT rogue, and wild magic sorc, plus half a dozen goblin mercenaries and an eleven year old girl with a couple of molotovs) isn't tough enough to face a real Beholder. And...the Zombie Beholder kind of sucks. The eye rays are:

1) Paralyzing Ray: if you make the save, nothing happens. If you fail, you're paralyzed for a minute or until you do make the save. "Paralyzed" doesn't sound like "fun".

2) Fear: "A frightened creature has disadvantage on Ability Checks and Attack rolls while the source of its fear is within line of sight, and the creature can’t willingly move closer to the source of its fear." So, they just need to break line of sight, which will be possible on this battlefield. That one's okay.

3) Enervation: Take 36 damage, half if you save.

4) Disintegration: Take 45 damage, or nothing if you save.

Now, these PCs all have about 38HP, so Enervation is likely to kill them if they've taken any damage at all, and Disintegration can take them from full health to "tear up your charsheet" in one bad roll. (Oh, and one Beholder Zombie seems to be a Medium encounter for 3xL5!)

Granted, I can "randomly" target a goblin with Disintegration, but that seems like a poor solution. I'm thinking splitting it into two beams of 5d8 ("see the split pupil in that eye?") at separate targets. If it vaporizes a goblin, good; it won't kill a fresh PC; if it kills little Eleanor, well, she shoulda stayed in cover.

That leaves me with Enervation, not quite as bad as Disintegrate, but I'd rather have it do something other than pure damage. And Paralyzing Ray just has me expecting our hapless thief to blow the roll and then watch the rest of the fight as a spectator. What are some better Eye Rays to apply?

Simple solution.

The tempest cleric casts aid at 3rd level.

Assuming +2 con and 5th level with d8 HD we have 36 base hp, 46 after aid.

It's now impossible for the beholder zombo to outright one shot a PC aside from the wild mage who has chaos rerolls to not-drop-saves.

The group listed has > 100 dpr with no optimization. Zombholder is unlikely to get a second round.

This is just assuming blind flailing PC's. Fog cloud is a tempest domain spell. Toss em a scroll of appropriate level aid and call it a day if needed.

[Laserlight]

I ended up using Fear, Slow, split Enervate, split Disintegrate. Everyone who got hit by Disintegrate made their saves, including the two goblin mercenaries, who resigned immediately thereafter.

The two ogre zombies got (in addition to their melee attack) Dispel Magic and Faerie Fire, usable as a bonus action, recharging on 5, 6.

And the first wave was ten zombie rust monsters.

It was a fun fight.

[Reaver25]

Maybe I'm a mean DM. I say play the damn thing against them, while giving all hints and tips at its powers and threats. If they decide to fight it, and don't fight well, then dust 'em. PCs in games aren't permanent. Let them make another. Run away if they have to. People thrive on tragedy, unfortunately.
Just a thought.

[Reaver25]

I ended up using Fear, Slow, split Enervate, split Disintegrate. Everyone who got hit by Disintegrate made their saves, including the two goblin mercenaries, who resigned immediately thereafter.

The two ogre zombies got (in addition to their melee attack) Dispel Magic and Faerie Fire, usable as a bonus action, recharging on 5, 6.

And the first wave was ten zombie rust monsters.

It was a fun fight.

See? The dice didn't even want them to die. Stop worrying about how to make it easier. Trust me. You'll enjoy it more. And so will they. :)

[Laserlight]

Let them make another. Run away if they have to.

OP, first sentence, first phrase, "this is the last session of the campaign." Neither of these is applicable in the last session of the campaign.

[Reaver25]

OP, first sentence, first phrase, "this is the last session of the campaign." Neither of these is applicable in the last session of the campaign.

That's where the fun of D&D begins, friend. Where one campaign ends, another begins! The next hero's try to stop the Zombie Beholder that slew their friends, or maybe they try to live up to the glory of the heroes that saved them!
Also. Forgot about that last session part. Was just throwing in my cents, but my answer remains the same. If they die they die. :)

[Laserlight]

That's where the fun of D&D begins, friend. Where one campaign ends, another begins!

The reason it was the last session was that we're in Paris but I'm moving back to the US. Really, "last session".

As it was, the sorcerer threw a rope over the beholder, the halfling was clinging to the rope, "I make a ranged attack with the rogue" who responded "what? Wait! AAAAAH!" Rogue ended up dangling from the beholder, beholder dropped him to 0hp, he fell 60ft. The cleric got him back up to 5hp before she got tossed off the tower, so he lived and has a great tale to tell at the bar (emphasizing the "I rode a beholder" part and leaving out the "horrified scream" and "nearly died" bits)

[Foff]

See? The dice didn't even want them to die. Stop worrying about how to make it easier. Trust me. You'll enjoy it more. And so will they. :)

I got the same exact problem with a certain monster at the end of the Death House intro for Curse of Strahd.
Thought it was way too powerful for the party and would end certainly with someone dying so I gave it a little handicap, a level two party of four people with barely any equipment kited it around the room it was staying in and eventually killed it.
A CR 6 mob which I thought would kill one or two of them istantly.

The same party is about to face Strahd himself and while I already prepared every nasty trick in the book he can use and bumped his HP to max I'm still worried they will just steamroll him into an early grave.

If anything I've learned to keep your players challenged and on the cusp of defeat constantly while adventuring.

[Laserlight]

Yeah, if your party is fairly fresh, they should handle a Deadly encounter without much worry, 2x Deadly with a little sweat. My concern wasn't "can they beat it", just "let's not vaporize someone early in the boss fight and have that player sitting around with nothing to do."

[Meichrob7]

So I actually used a Beholder Zombie last Thursday in a campaign I’m running and boy was it not fun. It’s lack of multiple actions means it’s not going to impact the whole party and instead 1-3 guys just get the short end of the stick.

The disintegration Ray was also just as much of a problem as you’d think, the one time I rolled it I had to shift it off to the Ranger’s animal companion (who to be fair was a small dragon baby who was in the beholders face so it wasn’t that unreasonable) to avoid permakilling one of my party members.

My recommendation would be to significantly nerf the rays and allow him to make more than one attack with them. Also give the beholder some sort of bodyguard if your party is actually level 5. Mine was four level 3 characters without any real game breaking homebrew and no magic items and they shredded him in three rounds.

So if you’re using him as like a significant encounter or even a boss battle and you want combat to last a while, either give him some meat shields or an environmental advantage. No one even took damage because I redirected the disentigration Ray, the paralysis would also be more meaningful with a melee bodyguard there to capitalize off it or a hoard of skeletons and zombies there to swarm the guy. It’d be a good way to do damage that isn’t tied to the save heavy all or nothing beholder rays.