What feat to give to a skeleton dragon?

[Oberron]

I'm playing an archivist necromancer in my groups current campaign and I got access to a jevu green dragon body. I have the feat graveborn warrior which allows me to spend 25gp of crushed gems and act as the undead counts as 1 HD higher for control purposes to give the undead a feat.

At first I was thinking of a metabreath feat but all but one is con reliant the other is breat of unlife which has a Cha requirement of 13 but zombie dragons get a -6 to their Cha so that's out.

I come to you for thoughts on what a good feat to give to a zombie skeleton dragon would be. (The dm has let me use undead variants as well so the zombie is a fast zombie if that matters)

My normal go to is martial study and give either punishing stance or iron guard's glare for extra damage or defense. But since it is a zombie (even a fast one) it still only gets 1 attack. But it is a dragon so I was thinking of some kind of epic feat?

Edit: Anything WOTC offical 3.0 or 3.5 is acceptable.

Double Edit: Dragons need to be at least adult age to become a zombie dragon, but skeleton dragon is fine.

[StevenC21]

None.

Int -- creatures (such as zombies) don't get feats.

[Oberron]

None.

Int -- creatures (such as zombies) don't get feats.

and graveborn warrior gives them one.

An undead creature created with this feat gains a bonus feat of your choice in any addition to any feats it normally possesses. The skeleton or zombie must meet the prerequisites for any feat granted by Graveborn Warrior.
You must add crushed gems worth 25 gp per affected creature to the normal material components for animate dead in order to create this effect. For the purpose of control, treat the resulting creature as having 1 more Hit Die than it actually does.

[StevenC21]

In that case, clearly you should give them Toughness again.

[Oberron]

In that case, clearly you should give them Toughness again.

why toughness of all things instead of something more useful? Or are you being sarcastic?

[ExLibrisMortis]

None.

Int -- creatures (such as zombies) don't get feats.
They still get bonus feats. Skeletons get Improved Initiative, for example.


How about Flyby Attack? Nice synergy with the single attack/breath weapon per turn, and makes your zombie dragon more durable, too.

[StevenC21]

It was sarcasm.

In all seriousness, metabreath Maximize might help make up for the poor damage of a zombie dragons breath weapon.

[Oberron]

They still get bonus feats. Skeletons get Improved Initiative, for example.


How about Flyby Attack? Nice synergy with the single attack/breath weapon per turn, and makes your zombie dragon more durable, too.

That seems really good I didn't even know that was a feat I thought it was a special ability creatures had. Does that work with breath attacks too?



It was sarcasm.

In all seriousness, metabreath Maximize might help make up for the poor damage of a zombie dragons breath weapon.

As I had said the in the first post almost all but one of the metabreath feats require con of some amount. Maximize breath needs con 17.

[DrMotives]

Power Attack seems like a safe bet. It's a big pile of muscle, no brains, so let it oaf out more.

[StevenC21]

Power Attack seems like a safe bet. It's a big pile of muscle, no brains, so let it oaf out more.

You'd think, but crappy undead BAB makes Power attack less than ideal frequently.

[Jack_Simth]

Flyby Attack is a fun one.

[Oberron]

Power Attack seems like a safe bet. It's a big pile of muscle, no brains, so let it oaf out more.

That isn't a bad idea either to make their single attack stronger. Juve green dragons have a BAB of +14 and with corpsecrafter and another feat it has 27 str for another +8 to hit for its bite.


You'd think, but crappy undead BAB makes Power attack less than ideal frequently.

zombie dragons keep their old BAB and a few other things (rules for skeleton and zombie dragons are from the draconomicon book)

[DrMotives]

Hmm. Then maybe ability focus (breath weapon) to shore up the poor DC it has from that terrible cha score.

[Oberron]

Hmm. Then maybe ability focus (breath weapon) to shore up the poor DC it has from that terrible cha score.


Flyby Attack is a fun one.

well sad news I had over looked that it can't become a dragon zombie unless it is adult age or older. But being a skeleton dragon is just fine. With that in mind it won't be able to fly so flyby attack is out and no breath weapon so dc bumping is out.

So thinking multi attack since it has clawx2, bite, wingx2 and tail slap. Or is there a feat that can give it pounce?

[Remuko]

How many hit die does it have? Maybe improved toughness? it helps offset the loss on Con a bit.

[Oberron]

How many hit die does it have? Maybe improved toughness? it helps offset the loss on Con a bit.

It has 14hd and currently has more health then it was alive thanks to corpse crafter feat (+2hp/hd) and a fell energy desecrate with an altar (for another +6/hd) meaning it is getting +8 hp /hd.

It did lose a lot of natural armor going from +13 to a +3 becoming a skeleton. Maybe improved Dr feat to go from 5/bludgeon to 7/bludgeon.

[WhamBamSam]

Flyby Attack wouldn't work for a Zombie Dragon either, since it requires the creature take both a move and a standard, which conflicts with Single Actions Only.

Martial Study is always a good bet on a big pile of HD, but is kind of sketchy without at least Int 3.

Shape Soulmeld is out in absence of a Con score. Unlike Metabreath with Breath of Unlife, you can't take Incarnum Feats even with Undead Meldshaper.

Travel Devotion would only be 1/day but would be a way for it to move and full attack.

Improved Unarmed Strike would expand its full attack routine, and undead are even automatically proficient in simple weapons.

[ShurikVch]

It has 14hd and currently has more health then it was alive thanks to corpse crafter feat (+2hp/hd) and a fell energy desecrate with an altar (for another +6/hd) meaning it is getting +8 hp /hd.

It did lose a lot of natural armor going from +13 to a +3 becoming a skeleton. Maybe improved Dr feat to go from 5/bludgeon to 7/bludgeon.For the feat: how about the Rapidstrike (Draconomicon)?

For a AC - Stone Bones and Iron Bones spells (Spell Compendium) are have 10 minutes/level duration

[liquidformat]

I will put my support behind Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, or multiattack.

If it were old enough I would say go Dire Charge but that is moot.

[WhamBamSam]

For the feat: how about the Rapidstrike (Draconomicon)?

For a AC - Stone Bones and Iron Bones spells (Spell Compendium) are have 10 minutes/level durationIts type changing from dragon to undead means it doesn't qualify for Rapidstrike, and its BAB is now only +7 anyway.

EDIT: If it's ruled that it still counts as a dragon, then per the rules in RotD and Dragon Magic, it automatically qualifies for Improved Dragon Wings, which would give it a 30 ft flight speed despite being a skeleton.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Flyby Attack wouldn't work for a Zombie Dragon either, since it requires the creature take both a move and a standard, which conflicts with Single Actions Only.
Zombie dragons can take more than one action per turn, they just can't attack more than once per turn. This probably also makes Rapidstrike useless (though skeletons can use it, and Multiattack).

[liquidformat]

Zombie dragons can take more than one action per turn, they just can't attack more than once per turn. This probably also makes Rapidstrike useless (though skeletons can use it, and Multiattack).

unless you are specifically looking for transport you are better off not going zombie anyways unless you have a zombie hydra...

[ExLibrisMortis]

unless you are specifically looking for transport you are better off not going zombie anyways unless you have a zombie hydra...
Oh, I agree that skeletons make far superior melee beatsticks. But I have to say, Flyby Attack makes the flight + breath weapon package look a lot better.

[liquidformat]

Oh, I agree that skeletons make far superior melee beatsticks. But I have to say, Flyby Attack makes the flight + breath weapon package look a lot better.

Are the intelligent bone and zombie templates from BoVD in play for your dragon, or strictly mindless?

[ShurikVch]

its BAB is now only +7 anyway.No:
"Zombie" is a template that can be added to any dragon of at least adult age (referred to hereafter as the base dragon). The creature uses all the base dragon's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Size and Type: The creature's type changes to undead, and it loses any subtypes it had in life. Do not recalculate the creature's base attack bonus, saves, or skill points.:smallcool:


Its type changing from dragon to undead means it doesn't qualify for RapidstrikeLet me quote other playgrounders about it:
The thing I think that is dumbest about the feat is the creature type restrictions. It should be open to anything with paired natural attacks including undead and aberations.
i ignore the creature type restrictions.

[Oberron]

Are the intelligent bone and zombie templates from BoVD in play for your dragon, or strictly mindless?

Variants and templates are okay but Bone and Corpse creature can't be made from animate undead spell. I was thinking making the skeleton into a fire skeleton so it has immunity to fire and acid (since it keeps its old immunity according to dragonomicon) and does an extra 1d6 fire with each attack.


Its type changing from dragon to undead means it doesn't qualify for Rapidstrike, and its BAB is now only +7 anyway.

EDIT: If it's ruled that it still counts as a dragon, then per the rules in RotD and Dragon Magic, it automatically qualifies for Improved Dragon Wings, which would give it a 30 ft flight speed despite being a skeleton.

Been talking with the DM and he said its alright for our "engineer" to craft some kind of mesh or hide to stretch over the skeleton wings with some craft and RP to give it back its flying but at the cost of losing the wing attacks (because attacking with them would damage the hide/mesh) which im fine with. (sovereign glue fixes anything with enough of it)

As for its type its dragon[undead] for our game (homerule)

[pabelfly]

Give it Skill Focus (Perform: Dance)

[Asmotherion]

Depending on your DM you could instead animate it as a Corpse/Bone Creature instead of a regular zombie/skeleton via Create (Greater) Undead.

it doesn't loose it's feats and is sentient (base creature's stats with adjustments from template minus con)

Use Haunt Shift to turn it into a Poltergeist (See Haunting Presance). Have it haunt an Object of choice (perhaps one that you can sit on and Fly). Comand it to manifest when you need it.

Since he retains his Cha he's eligeble for Breath of Unlife (gained via your Graveborn Warior) wich qualifies him to gain/retain other metabreath feats (the base creature may already have) as if your Cha was your Con.

Hope this Helps?

[Oberron]

Depending on your DM you could instead animate it as a Corpse/Bone Creature instead of a regular zombie/skeleton via Create (Greater) Undead.

it doesn't loose it's feats and is sentient (base creature's stats with adjustments from template minus con)

Use Haunt Shift to turn it into a Poltergeist (See Haunting Presance). Have it haunt an Object of choice (perhaps one that you can sit on and Fly). Comand it to manifest when you need it.

Since he retains his Cha he's eligeble for Breath of Unlife (gained via your Graveborn Warior) wich qualifies him to gain/retain other metabreath feats (the base creature may already have) as if your Cha was your Con.

Hope this Helps?

Got a while before then but useful information for the future ty for your time and advice. Planning on awakening later for real scary undead dragon goodness

[ShurikVch]

How about the Martial Study: Mountain Hammer? I mean - ability to completely ignore DR and hardness may be useful sometimes...

[Oberron]

How about the Martial Study: Mountain Hammer? I mean - ability to completely ignore DR and hardness may be useful sometimes...

looking at higher lvl strikes and stances since with martial study you count as 1/2 your lvl the skeleton dragon can get up to lvl7 strikes/boost/stances.
Shadow blink is a swift action with a teleport range of 50ft. Swift 50ft blink might as well be a pounce with full attack. Very strong. no prereqs. I don't think I can find anything stronger.

edit: nvm its only up to 4th, interesting to note my book says 13th-4th for 7th lvl maneuver, its an obvious typo but interesting typo.