Dwarven Fighter Build

[RNightstalker]

Hello Playground,

To preface this post I'm not looking for the "Why are you playing a fighter..." and similar comments.

What I am looking for is some extra eyes on a proposed fighter build (1-20) I have planned out feat-wise at least.

1-WF: Dwarven Waraxe
F1-Improved Initiative
F2-Shield Specialization
3-Power Attack
F4-Shield Ward
6-WS: Dwarven Waraxe
F6-Battle Hardened
F8-Heavy Armor Optimization
9-Greater Heavy Armor Optimization
F10-GWF: Dwarven Waraxe
12-MWM: Slashing
F12-Improved Critical: Dwarven Waraxe
F14-GWS: Dwarven Waraxe
15-??
F16-??
18-??
F18-Weapon Supremacy: Dwarven Waraxe
F20-??

Obviously I'm not planning a super highly optimized build, just going for the stereotypical heavy armor, shield and axe build. Not planning on using Armor Specialization as Adamantine armor will give a better DR than the feat. But what would be the best heavy armor to use?

Planned stat priorities: CN, ST, WI, IQ, DX, CH

[Thurbane]

Martial Study and Martial Stance are bonus fighter feats, that can add a lot of versatility.

Also, as I found out recently, the Mage Slayer line of feats are also Fighter bonus feats.

[Efrate]

Mechanus gear or the like are pretty good if full plate isn't to taste, but requires a feat. Dwarven stone plate as well, more flavor than function. Mountain plate is inferior to mechanus gear but again on theme. Mithril or adamantine mechanus gear is pricey but very good. Riverine mechanus gear is nigh indestructible but you lose the Dr from adamantine or the weight reduction and speed bonus from mithril. It's also super pricey.

[Thurbane]

The great thing about Mechanus Gear is that unlike the exotic Dwarven armors, it doesn't require a feat for proficiency: it's simply heavy armor, like full plate.

[Particle_Man]

Martial Study and Martial Stance are bonus fighter feats, that can add a lot of versatility.

Also, as I found out recently, the Mage Slayer line of feats are also Fighter bonus feats.

Yeah the diamond mind maneuvers can help with your low will save (you need to put a lot of ranks in concentration though but it becomes a class skill when you take martial study), give you a touch attack as a standard action, and then a stance can give you Blindsense and then you could take a shadow hand maneuver that lets you teleport up to 50’ as a move action. If you stay fighter all but the blind sense would be once each per encounter though. The blind sense would be always on.

[RNightstalker]

Martial Study and Martial Stance are bonus fighter feats, that can add a lot of versatility.

Also, as I found out recently, the Mage Slayer line of feats are also Fighter bonus feats.

The Mage Slayer could definitely help at later levels as I don't plan on prestiging or multiclassing into a spellcasting class. The Martial Study I'll have to incorporate earlier in the build for Moment of perfect clarity once the save or die spells start hitting. Thanks!


Mechanus gear or the like are pretty good if full plate isn't to taste, but requires a feat. Dwarven stone plate as well, more flavor than function. Mountain plate is inferior to mechanus gear but again on theme. Mithril or adamantine mechanus gear is pricey but very good. Riverine mechanus gear is nigh indestructible but you lose the Dr from adamantine or the weight reduction and speed bonus from mithril. It's also super pricey.


The great thing about Mechanus Gear is that unlike the exotic Dwarven armors, it doesn't require a feat for proficiency: it's simply heavy armor, like full plate.

Where do y'all find Mechanus Gear? The only place I found it was on a homebrew page.

[Vizzerdrix]

Where do y'all find Mechanus Gear? The only place I found it was on a homebrew page.

Planar handbook.

[RNightstalker]

Mechanus gear or the like are pretty good if full plate isn't to taste, but requires a feat. Dwarven stone plate as well, more flavor than function. Mountain plate is inferior to mechanus gear but again on theme. Mithril or adamantine mechanus gear is pricey but very good. Riverine mechanus gear is nigh indestructible but you lose the Dr from adamantine or the weight reduction and speed bonus from mithril. It's also super pricey.

Would the Riverine bonus to touch AC include enhancement bonuses? It's a heckuva quandary: DR 3/- or extra touch AC.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Since you're going for ax and shield, have you considered shield bashing? Swap out Weapon Focus (Dwarven Waraxe) and Weapon Specialization (Dwarven Waraxe) for Improve Shield Bash and Agile Shield Fighter. Now you can shield bash and smack with your ax both in the same turn, without losing your bonus to AC. You may want to ask your DM if you can homebrew Improved/Greater Agile Shield Fighter, like already exist with Two-Weapon Fighting

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Would the Riverine bonus to touch AC include enhancement bonuses? It's a heckuva quandary: DR 3/- or extra touch AC.

It should include enhancement bonuses, because the way that works out is it's an enhancement bonus to the bonus of the armor (which why the enhancement bonuses from having a magic shield and magic armor stack; the way system works they become shield and armor bonuses respectively). So since the bonus of the armor is actually increasing, the deflection bonus should increase with it.

Side Note: Using riverine would also let you dual wield shields; if one of them is riverine you could still add its deflection bonus to your AC even though the shield bonus doesn't stack. Throw in Agile Shield fighter and you can go around punching people with two shields. (In this case, you'd want the armor to be adamantine or something, not riverine).

[RNightstalker]

Since you're going for ax and shield, have you considered shield bashing? Swap out Weapon Focus (Dwarven Waraxe) and Weapon Specialization (Dwarven Waraxe) for Improve Shield Bash and Agile Shield Fighter. Now you can shield bash and smack with your ax both in the same turn, without losing your bonus to AC. You may want to ask your DM if you can homebrew Improved/Greater Agile Shield Fighter, like already exist with Two-Weapon Fighting

Those would mess up the Greater X feats later on.


It should include enhancement bonuses, because the way that works out is it's an enhancement bonus to the bonus of the armor (which why the enhancement bonuses from having a magic shield and magic armor stack; the way system works they become shield and armor bonuses respectively). So since the bonus of the armor is actually increasing, the deflection bonus should increase with it.

Side Note: Using riverine would also let you dual wield shields; if one of them is riverine you could still add its deflection bonus to your AC even though the shield bonus doesn't stack. Throw in Agile Shield fighter and you can go around punching people with two shields. (In this case, you'd want the armor to be adamantine or something, not riverine).

How would it allow dual-wielding shields?

[DEMON]

1-WF: Dwarven Waraxe
F1-Improved Initiative

The Dwarf Fighter substitution level 1 from RoS gives you Weapon Focus with several more axes, +2 HP and an extra skill at the cost of 1 fighter bonus feat (so absolutely no cost, if you were already going to take Weapon Focus).

[RNightstalker]

The Dwarf Fighter substitution level 1 from RoS gives you Weapon Focus with several more axes, +2 HP and an extra skill at the cost of 1 fighter bonus feat (so absolutely no cost, if you were already going to take Weapon Focus).

Good pull. Would the 8th-level substitution replace the Heavy Armor Optimization feat or would they stack?

[DEMON]

Good pull. Would the 8th-level substitution replace the Heavy Armor Optimization feat or would they stack?

They would stack.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Those would mess up the Greater X feats later on.

True. If your DM allows Improved/Greater Agile Shield Fighter (for a second and third iterative with your shield, respectively) that would fill some of those up, but even without you could take Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization in the spots where you'd be taking their greater versions for the same bonus.

Either way, I think an extra attack with the shield is worth more than the bonuses to attack and damage the WF/WS line gives you, since it's a full extra attack with Strength, Power Attack, and possibly enhancement bonuses to damage. Even without those last two, with a STR of 12 and an average damage die roll of 3.5 (d6 for a spiked heavy shield), if you hit with the shield 50% of the time you've already exceeded the average damage bonus from Weapon Specialization even if you hit every time with your ax (2.25 versus 2). Since you've probably got a much higher STR than that, probably hit more often than 50% of the time, and probably using Power Attack at least sometimes, your average damage with the shield should be even better.

Side Note: if your DM doesn't allow Improved/Greater Agile Shield Fighter, you can accomplish the same thing with Two-Weapon Fighting and Oversized Two Weapon Fighting instead of Agile Shield Fighter. This costs you an extra feat, but unambiguously qualifies you for Improved TWF, Greater TWF, and all those other TWF related feats. Two Weapon Pounce springs to mind, for letting you attack with both weapons at the end of a charge; other good ones include Double Hit (attack with each weapon on an attack of opportunity), Two Weapon Rend (lots of extra damage if you hit with both weapons), and Dual Hit (attack with both weapons as a standard action).



How would it allow dual-wielding shields?

This is a cool thing I figured out a while back (though I wasn't the first, Darrin's fantastic TWF Offhandbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?279079-3-5-The-TWF-OffHandbook) also discusses it). Normally there's nothing actually preventing you from wearing a shield on each arm; you just don't benefit because the bonuses to AC are both shield bonuses and thus don't stack (and you don't have a hand left for a weapon, though if you're using spiked shields that's not a problem). However, if one of the shield's is made of riverine, half its bonus to AC is deflection, which does stack with the shield bonus of the other shield. Throw on Improved Shield Bash and you can attack with one of them without losing its bonus to AC; also throw on Agile Shield Fighter (or TWF+Oversized TWF) and you can attack with both of them without losing either bonus to AC. You get the damage of a TWF character and the AC of a character with one and a half shields.

Side Note: If you go this route, Weapon Focus (spiked heavy shield) and Weapon Specialization (spiked heavy shield) become significantly better, because they're applying to both your attacks (and Shield Specialization improves for the same reason, for that matter).

[Blackhawk748]

Power Attack isn't worth it, you may want to grab Shield Slam instead. I thoroughly enjoyed using it

[Particle_Man]

In honour of OOTS you might want to take leadership and bring your entire extended family on your adventures.

Also, why isn’t power attack worth it? I thought it was a standard part of damage builds.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

EARTH DORF (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfEarth)

Always take Dead Levels (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a) class features, they're absolutely free.


Take Wild Talent or Hidden Talent at 1st to be able to take Deflective Armor in RoS. This way you'll get your armor bonus added to your touch AC, which with Shield Ward means your touch AC will match your regular AC minus only natural armor. With Hidden Talent you can learn Expansion, maybe say he's half-Duergar? Just don't ever run yourself completely out of powerpoints, you need at least one to become or stay psionically focused.

You can also get Speed of Thought if you wear mithral full plate, it only counts as medium armor for movement and any abilities that are limited by armor category, so it still benefits from your heavy armor feats.

If you want to do a little more than just swing an axe, get the Zhentarim Soldier (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) substitution levels (reflavored if needed, it fits any bully stereotype), get armor with the Fearsome property in DotU (it's a more recent version than the one in MIC), and take the feat Imperious Command also in DotU with the Never Outnumbered skill trick. It works best if you're large size or have powerful build for the size bonus to intimidate, and that makes the Dungeoncrasher ACF amazing with the feat Knock-Back. Hiring an NPC spellcaster for Permanency: Enlarge Person at a caster level of 20th with a Ring of Enduring Arcana (dispel DC 35) should only cost 3,700 gp. You could instead go (Desert (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertHalfOrcs)) Half-Orc and use the Otyugh Hole in CS to get Menacing Demeanor without spending a feat on it.


A character who can do more stuff will feel more heroic. Your build looks like a dime-a-dozen NPC that would be standing guard in a dwarven city, or as an extra in a recent Order of the Stick, not be out adventuring. You should instead go Fighter 9/ Warblade 10/ Fighter 1 and still take Weapon Supremacy at 20th level. That gets a lot more options in combat than a single-classed Fighter, and doesn't really lose any of the flavor, unless a lack of capability is part of your character's identity. This can be combined with Zhentarim Soldier and Dungeoncrasher to great effect.

[Biggus]

A character who can do more stuff will feel more heroic. Your build looks like a dime-a-dozen NPC that would be standing guard in a dwarven city, or as an extra in a recent Order of the Stick, not be out adventuring. You should instead go Fighter 9/ Warblade 10/ Fighter 1 and still take Weapon Supremacy at 20th level. That gets a lot more options in combat than a single-classed Fighter, and doesn't really lose any of the flavor, unless a lack of capability is part of your character's identity. This can be combined with Zhentarim Soldier and Dungeoncrasher to great effect.

Dude, he said right there in the OP that he wasn't looking for "why are you playing a Fighter" comments.

I'm currently DMing for a player who's playing a straight Barbarian whose entire strategy is "I hit it. I hit it again" and do you know what? She's enjoying it. She's enjoying it precisely because it's simple. The fact that you wouldn't find a character fun to play doesn't mean other people won't.

[AnimeTheCat]

What I am looking for is some extra eyes on a proposed fighter build (1-20) I have planned out feat-wise at least.

1-WF: Dwarven Waraxe
F1-Improved Initiative
F2-Shield Specialization
3-Power Attack
F4-Shield Ward
6-WS: Dwarven Waraxe
F6-Battle Hardened
F8-Heavy Armor Optimization
9-Greater Heavy Armor Optimization
F10-GWF: Dwarven Waraxe
12-MWM: Slashing
F12-Improved Critical: Dwarven Waraxe
F14-GWS: Dwarven Waraxe
15-??
F16-??
18-??
F18-Weapon Supremacy: Dwarven Waraxe
F20-??

So, in my opinion Power Attack isn't really worth it at all on a sword-and-board fighter. Personally, I feel like Combat Focus/Combat Stability/Combat Vigor (all from PHB II, pg 87-88) would be better additions. You already get stability bonuses for being a dwarf and from Shield Ward, why not add another +8 to that? with just any ole Heavy Shield you get a total of +15 vs bullrush when you're in your combat focus. Combat vigor gives you Fast healing 4 every encounter, and Combat Focus gives you a +4 to will saves, shoring up your most leathal bad save. Since you're already prioritizing Wisdom over Intelligence, you should be able to achieve the 13 Wisdom requirement for the combat form feats fairly easily.

[RNightstalker]

Side Note: if your DM doesn't allow Improved/Greater Agile Shield Fighter, you can accomplish the same thing with Two-Weapon Fighting and Oversized Two Weapon Fighting instead of Agile Shield Fighter. This costs you an extra feat, but unambiguously qualifies you for Improved TWF, Greater TWF, and all those other TWF related feats. Two Weapon Pounce springs to mind, for letting you attack with both weapons at the end of a charge; other good ones include Double Hit (attack with each weapon on an attack of opportunity), Two Weapon Rend (lots of extra damage if you hit with both weapons), and Dual Hit (attack with both weapons as a standard action).
This is a cool thing I figured out a while back (though I wasn't the first, Darrin's fantastic TWF Offhandbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?279079-3-5-The-TWF-OffHandbook) also discusses it). Normally there's nothing actually preventing you from wearing a shield on each arm; you just don't benefit because the bonuses to AC are both shield bonuses and thus don't stack (and you don't have a hand left for a weapon, though if you're using spiked shields that's not a problem). However, if one of the shield's is made of riverine, half its bonus to AC is deflection, which does stack with the shield bonus of the other shield. Throw on Improved Shield Bash and you can attack with one of them without losing its bonus to AC; also throw on Agile Shield Fighter (or TWF+Oversized TWF) and you can attack with both of them without losing either bonus to AC. You get the damage of a TWF character and the AC of a character with one and a half shields.
Side Note: If you go this route, Weapon Focus (spiked heavy shield) and Weapon Specialization (spiked heavy shield) become significantly better, because they're applying to both your attacks (and Shield Specialization improves for the same reason, for that matter).

Not looking to do the TWF thing with this character, I've got a TWF Dervish going in another game right now...appreciate the tips though and I apologize if you feel I wasted your time because I forgot to mention that before.


Dude, he said right there in the OP that he wasn't looking for "why are you playing a Fighter" comments.

I'm currently DMing for a player who's playing a straight Barbarian whose entire strategy is "I hit it. I hit it again" and do you know what? She's enjoying it. She's enjoying it precisely because it's simple. The fact that you wouldn't find a character fun to play doesn't mean other people won't.

Good looking Biggus.


So, in my opinion Power Attack isn't really worth it at all on a sword-and-board fighter. Personally, I feel like Combat Focus/Combat Stability/Combat Vigor (all from PHB II, pg 87-88) would be better additions. You already get stability bonuses for being a dwarf and from Shield Ward, why not add another +8 to that? with just any ole Heavy Shield you get a total of +15 vs bullrush when you're in your combat focus. Combat vigor gives you Fast healing 4 every encounter, and Combat Focus gives you a +4 to will saves, shoring up your most leathal bad save. Since you're already prioritizing Wisdom over Intelligence, you should be able to achieve the 13 Wisdom requirement for the combat form feats fairly easily.

I don't think this Dwarf will fit the Combat Focus mold...I plan on playing him in a stereotypical manner who's always asking:
"Can I smash it with my axe?" and,
"Ok can I smash it with my axe later?" and
"THEN can I smash it with my axe?" and
"NOW can I smash it with my axe?"

[daremetoidareyo]

I don't think this Dwarf will fit the Combat Focus mold...I plan on playing him in a stereotypical manner who's always asking:
"Can I smash it with my axe?" and,
"Ok can I smash it with my axe later?" and
"THEN can I smash it with my axe?" and
"NOW can I smash it with my axe?"

Sounds like focus to me

[RNightstalker]

Sounds like focus to me

lol touché.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Not looking to do the TWF thing with this character, I've got a TWF Dervish going in another game right now...appreciate the tips though and I apologize if you feel I wasted your time because I forgot to mention that before.

No prob! The nice thing about coming up with these crazy ideas is that I can always steal them for myself later.

[AnimeTheCat]

I don't think this Dwarf will fit the Combat Focus mold...I plan on playing him in a stereotypical manner who's always asking:
"Can I smash it with my axe?" and,
"Ok can I smash it with my axe later?" and
"THEN can I smash it with my axe?" and
"NOW can I smash it with my axe?"

I mean... the feat is called combat focus, but the fluff of anything (and name for that matter) can be easily negotiated. Think of it as your fighter being so single minded in his quest to smash it with his axe that all other distractions fade into the background making it harder to sway his will to axe the enemies questions.

[Efrate]

If you are not going shield bash line extreme shield profiency might be an option if you have a feat to spare, unless you are planning on tower shield already. It's not ideal but its something.

Hidden talent :skate or something lets you be psionicly focused which opens up some quite good feats, from adding your armor bonus to touch a.c. with reflective armor (races of stone), to tons of other goodies, and grants 15ft. movement speed or whatever power you choose. It also is great for the diamond mind counters because you can expend focus to take 15 on your concentration check, which means you get 15 plus your concentration (which once you martial study is always a class skill), so your saves once an encounter are 15 plus level plus 3 plus con bonus which should easily outpace everything thrown at you. Even if you aren't focused you cannot fail on 1s using the maneuvers so its always worthwhile, though a dip into warblade at the right level after taking study early to get concentration always might be better. Nightmare blades are good as well if you dip warblade.

Other than that a dip into incarnate or totemist can open up a lot of options. Or you can spend a pair of feats for shape soulmeld and open x chakra to get everything from short range teleportation, immunity to charms, huge umd bonuses, a bunch of intimidate bonuses, ability damage resistance, to treating your attacks as magic and force for incorporeal.

A level of binder and improved binding gives a bunch of utility options covering everything from immunity to transformation, scouting, healing one ability damage a round, invisibility, tactical teleportation by swapping with allies, and more.

[DEMON]

If you are not going shield bash line extreme shield profiency might be an option if you have a feat to spare, unless you are planning on tower shield already. It's not ideal but its something.

There's a variant rule that allows Tower Shield Proficiency to be traded for an Extreme Shield Proficiency (or any other exotic shield proficiency). If that rule is applied, you don't have to spend a feat on it.

[Blackhawk748]

In honour of OOTS you might want to take leadership and bring your entire extended family on your adventures.

Also, why isn’t power attack worth it? I thought it was a standard part of damage builds.

It is, for a two-handed build. One-handed doesn't really benefit all that much

[Efrate]

One handed power is a 1 to 1 ratio, two handed is a 1 to 3 or more. Adding 20 damage is not that good, adding 60 is. You could go full ubercharger with a barbarian dip for pounce or just use the swift action leap maneuver, and go with a valorus weapon with the bonus from leap attack and shock trooper, but you will not be one shotting anything cr appropriate, and now you are in melee range for a full attack with tanked ac which will probably kill you. 20 40 80 is nice but not really worth it, 60 120 240 is, and thats just the first attack. Plus strength bonus is also x1.5 two handed so you add that on then do your doubling.

[RNightstalker]

Can you honestly see a dwarf in heavy armor and a shield trying to run, leap attack and pounce? Heck Gimli needed Aragorn's help w/ light armor and no shield...

[Thurbane]

If you want to go down the two-handed Power Attack route, you could always add the animated property to the shield; or just use a buckler.

[AnimeTheCat]

If you want to go down the two-handed Power Attack route, you could always add the animated property to the shield; or just use a buckler.

Mechanics aside, if you're not operating in an optimized world, you should be fine with your build OP. If your DM (or you if you are the DM) creates a more optimized world, problems begin to pop up.

EDIT:Thurbane, not trying to say your advice is bad from a mechanical aspect, but it doesn't seem like what the OP is looking for.

[Particle_Man]

Can you honestly see a dwarf in heavy armor and a shield trying to run, leap attack and pounce? Heck Gimli needed Aragorn's help w/ light armor and no shield...

Well 3.5 dwarves can tumble in full plate (since neither armour nor encumbrance slows dwarves down, tumbling is not prohibited to dwarves in medium or heavy armour) if they put the ranks in, so I will say yes.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Don't you remember? According to the movie, dwarves are natural sprinters. Highly athletic.

[Efrate]

Thibbledorf Pwent I can see leap attacking; he's a dwarf in heavy armor. Not as far as a hulking human barbarian with a hammer maybe but enough to get the job done.

[RNightstalker]

Thibbledorf Pwent I can see leap attacking; he's a dwarf in heavy armor. Not as far as a hulking human barbarian with a hammer maybe but enough to get the job done.

Why should I know who Thibbledorf Pwent is? Isn't he part of the Gutbusters?

[animewatcha]

I am taking this from Neverwinter Online. Please forgive me if 3.5 is different. In that game, Pwent was involved in Illithid/ mind flayer / demogorgon far realm insanity stuff. Believe he was a battlerager that wore heavy armor and used armor spikes.

[Efrate]

He is the leader of the gutbusters. Stuff went south later but he was always described as leaping into battle and onto foes using his trademarked ridged/spiked armor to convulse onto foes and literally rip them apart with his armor.

[RNightstalker]

He is the leader of the gutbusters. Stuff went south later but he was always described as leaping into battle and onto foes using his trademarked ridged/spiked armor to convulse onto foes and literally rip them apart with his armor.

So I did remember correctly! I'm not so ashamed that I remember my R. A. Salvatore!

[RNightstalker]

So here's the updated build:

LN Dwarf Fighter-Earth Dwarf
L1-Sheild Specialization: Heavy
F1-Dwarf Fighter Substitution Level RoS
F2-Martial Study: Diamond Mind-Moment of Perfect Mind
L3-Improved Initiative
F4-Shield Ward
L6-Battle Hardened
F6-WS: Dwarven Waraxe
F8-Dwarven Fighter Substitution Level RoS
L9-Heavy Armor Optimization
F10-Greater Heavy Armor Optimization
L12-MWM: Slashing
F12-Improved Critical: Dwarven Waraxe
F14-GWF: Dwarven Waraxe
L15-Law Devotion
F16-GWS: Dwarven Waraxe
L18-Mage Slayer
F18-Weapon Supremacy: Dwarven Waraxe
F20-Pierce Magical Concealment

Aiming for Mithral Heavy Shield and Adamantine Heavy Armor
Stats: ST-19, DX-13, CN-20, IQ-16, WI-15, CH-13--with racial adjustments

Any other thoughts/comments? (Please read OP first :smallcool:)

[Thurbane]

Bear in mind that with Martial Study, you need to meet the minimum initiator level reqs, and a Fighter counts as 1/2 his actual level. You may need to shuffle some feats around.

Other than that, looks like a great Fighter build!

[RNightstalker]

Bear in mind that with Martial Study, you need to meet the minimum initiator level reqs, and a Fighter counts as 1/2 his actual level. You may need to shuffle some feats around.

Moment of Perfect Mind is a 1st level maneuver so taking it at 2nd level works.

[Thurbane]

Moment of Perfect Mind is a 1st level maneuver so taking it at 2nd level works.

Oops, you are correct - I was getting it confused with something else entirely.

[RNightstalker]

Oops, you are correct - I was getting it confused with something else entirely.

No worries, I may have made a mistake or two myself on this forum too. I appreciate your input here and on other threads I've seen.

[Darrin]

[...]
L6-Battle Hardened
[...]
F20-Pierce Magical Concealment


I'm not really feeling the love for Battle Hardened. Static save bonuses just don't excite me all that much. And besides, you've already got Moment of Perfect Mind in there.

Pierce Magical Concealment has an additional prereq: Blind-Fight. So you might need to shoehorn that in there somewhere.

[RNightstalker]

I'm not really feeling the love for Battle Hardened. Static save bonuses just don't excite me all that much. And besides, you've already got Moment of Perfect Mind in there.

Pierce Magical Concealment has an additional prereq: Blind-Fight. So you might need to shoehorn that in there somewhere.

Battle Hardened is more for the initiative bonus. As far as PMC, good looking, I'm glad someone's paying attention lol. Maybe I'll switch it up to pierce magical protection.