DM ruled crits auto hit skipping miss chance. How to work with that?

[Lorddenorstrus]

Title. Playing a wizard//factotum3warblade3 into Jade Phoenix mage. If miss chance value has diminished due to crits auto hitting. (He's not using confirmation so a Scimitar auto hits 18-20). What would people suggestions be for either wealth as I gain gold or spells known for being able to create defense. Currently 7th level. I have very little gold left. Spent on belt of battle and +2 int enhancement. Looted a +1 unholy great axe. So using that for maneuvers. Have a haversack and some miscellaneous items in it for help. Ipecac rope flour, etc.

[SangoProduction]

Oh. I thought you meant natural 20s with the title (which I would be OK with, if mentioned ahead of time). But no just straight up any crits.
That's impressively dangerous. ...But you know? If it weren't possible to get an almost auto crit roll, I wouldn't be too miffed about this ruling, myself. Give the martials something to hope for

If it ignores all miss chance, then the best thing to do (from a pure defense side) is to just straight up absorb it. DR and temporary hit points.

Of course, they can't kill you if they are dead. Prepare some save or dies and launch them on enemies with high crits.

[Buufreak]

No confirm rolls? Yea, just go with all the usual crit cheese. Weapon base 18-20, keen enchantment, then whatever that class is from book of vile darkness. You end up with something like critting on 11-20, literally 50% of the time.

Now the real question is how long will this bs go on before the dm renigs.

I should read better. Although on a gish, I'll maintain that hitting first and always auto critting inflicts the best status in the game: dead. Don't need defenses against dead.

[Lorddenorstrus]

No confirm rolls? Yea, just go with all the usual crit cheese. Weapon base 18-20, keen enchantment, then whatever that class is from book of vile darkness. You end up with something like critting on 11-20, literally 50% of the time.

Now the real question is how long will this bs go on before the dm renigs.

I should read better. Although on a gish, I'll maintain that hitting first and always auto critting inflicts the best status in the game: dead. Don't need defenses against dead.

To be fair, I did make a Crit fisher one time. Had 11-20. He said "thats unfair". Which, frankly isn't really the Crit fisher itself as a martial is unfair? The problem is having any crit = auto hit. Even ignoring magical miss chances or concealment. Up until today Miss chances hadn't actually popped up with his rule. Party member used.. something i was looking at spellbook at the time to prep my round. And I looked up when i heard the "18 auto hit even through his miss chance."

I was going to grab some crap like Blink iiiirc to have some good defense on a no armor crap AC wizard but that got thrown out today. Waste of my 2 spells /level to even learn it really. We just killed an entire bandit camp of fairly higher ish level bandits all equipped with Scimitar/Bows. Those Scims auto hitting a few of the party members knocked them flat on their asses. I'm just glad I was flying and only got poked with some arrows. Although, this put me in a position unable to use my Gish half of my gestalt so I was basically just a wizard for that combat *shrug*

[LordBlades]

Is walking out and finding a better DM an option?

Having all crits autohit is a pretty big houserule and springing it on a player mid-combat instead of presenting it beforehand (as in before people made their characters) is very bad DMing in my book.

[MisterKaws]

Easiest way is just talking to the DM with your party. Calling out a DM's bull**** will usually get them back on the track. If it doesn't, drop the game like a hot potato and find something better to spend your time on.

Alternatively, get a Longbow and a wand of Hunter's Mercy. Now you can abuse the houserule yourself.

[Lorddenorstrus]

Is walking out and finding a better DM an option?

Having all crits autohit is a pretty big houserule and springing it on a player mid-combat instead of presenting it beforehand (as in before people made their characters) is very bad DMing in my book.

I've played with him before, I always knew he skipped Confirmation but I assumed he was just having crits bypass AC not miss chances or other effects which are entirely separate during an attack. *shrug* As I said the rest hadn't popped up until now. I'm not really bothered by Crits beating AC, because AC is frankly to easy to pump as is to borderline unhittable levels unless the DM optimizes his NPCs to the same levels we are iiiirc. My problem is just miss chances being almost entirely devalued. What's the point of getting miss chance if it doesn't help protect you when you actually need it?

But yeah he's one of my friends from highschool. Also one of the only people in the area who plays 3.5. Everyone else is playing 5E which *vomit* isn't even D&D. It gives me cancer to look at it. I'll deal with the ruling, there are worst things that can happen. Few years back I legit had another friend DM who banned Tome of Battle as "broken" but had no problems with wizards druids etc. He doesn't DM anymore I snapped his mental version of "balanced" in half.

What I really need is to just stretch my OP-Fu with help to create different kinds of defenses so I won't feel naked on the battle field as a Gish Wizard. I' want AC to hit at least a "Crit to hit" level or basically rolling 14-15 under is a miss. I'm already using Faerie Mystery Initiate to make Int my HP/lvl so I hit over 100HP at lvl 7. Just need to feel safe enough to not be squished if I waltz into melee lol. Maybe use Mirror Image? hmm unsure.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I'd ask if it could be reduced to only negating miss chance on a Nat 20. Still has just about the same thematic effect (and I actually do rather like that as a house rule, especially if it applies to attacking incorporeal creatures with magic weapons), but without the swinginess of crit ranges. Or maybe ask if it can be changed so that it does hit even if miss chance would have made it miss, but can only do critical damage if it was going to hit anyway?

Aside from that, there's not really anything you can do other than become tankier or more careful about strategic positioning.

[Lorddenorstrus]

Easiest way is just talking to the DM with your party. Calling out a DM's bull**** will usually get them back on the track. If it doesn't, drop the game like a hot potato and find something better to spend your time on.

Alternatively, get a Longbow and a wand of Hunter's Mercy. Now you can abuse the houserule yourself.

I like this idea. That's what 750 G for that wand I think? 4th lvl ranger is CL 2 and has 0 + bonus stat spells. So 2x1 x750/2. That sounds like a VERY reasonable and cheap solution I believe so myself. Plunk auto crits of death.

[Khedrac]

You are playing a gish of some sort - do you have access to the Heart of <Element> spells? They are probably your cheapest way to get some form of fortification which is your best defence (by definition crits cannot bypass fortification, or what is it for?)

In the longer run you need to get 100% fortification 100% of the time.

You also might want to look into the numbers to show your DM that while 19-20 (x2) and 20 (x3) are equivalent in damage with confirmation rolls, the boost 19-20 gets form auto-hitting completely outweighs the extra multiplier against high AC foes (more reason to power attack).

Something to clarify with your DM - are all sources of Miss Chance the same for being bypassed? E.g. is incorporeality miss chance bypassed the same as concealment?

[pabelfly]

The real issue is that your enemies get this too. I'd get fortification enchant or try to become plant, construct or undead type to not have to worry about crits.

Critfishing - extra attacks, scabbard of keen edges or Improved Critical, static damage bonuses, Kaorti weapons, and Burst enchants (if you can get a crit bonus of 15-20 x 4). Oh, and the prismatic weapon enchant/spell.

[RNightstalker]

DM made a very bad ruling. Talk to DM and if DM doesn't budge, outfit your character to another game.

[Quertus]

So, if you've got the skills to make one GM realize the error of his ways (story?), Why not apply those skills to this problem?

Or just enjoy crit heaven. Both good. :smallwink:

[Lorddenorstrus]

So, if you've got the skills to make one GM realize the error of his ways (story?), Why not apply those skills to this problem?

Or just enjoy crit heaven. Both good. :smallwink:

Sometimes it's easier to convince one person than another. besides the first was just because I love ToB and having it banned annoyed the living hell out of me. One guy seeing a few combat maneuvers isn't nearly as broken as Wizard spells he had been to lazy to see how they could be used and frankly me making 30+ Characters ready to break the game from casting was a walk in the park.

My current DM is more stubborn, and I barely got him to change how he has Nat 1 rolls on melee attacks work. He used to have an entire Crit failure system so I avoided weapon users entirely. Now he has Nat 1s as "Fumble Forward" or you Crit, but have a minor negative effect. Last combat one of the party rolled 1 on her attack, Crit killed the enemy but the blade got stuck and "took a standard action" to remove it from the body.

Crits functioning differently is a minor nuisance I just need to work around. Getting fortification, and some D/R topped with just making sure to use Mirror Images I think should be plenty as I have made my HP really high. Then all we need to do is make sure the entire party abuses the hell out of Crits. Wands of hunter sense as suggested, we abuse it from range and then we all swap to melee weapons with high Crit ranges. The purpose of my thread was to ask for things I might have forgotten about or not recalled to use. (ie hunters sense, I barely know ranger spell lists. so that was a great suggestion)

[thelastorphan]

Try compromising with the DM. Maybe something like crits get to roll twice for miss chance instead of a flat negation.

[Raven777]

Is walking out and finding a better DM an option?

Having all crits autohit is a pretty big houserule and springing it on a player mid-combat instead of presenting it beforehand (as in before people made their characters) is very bad DMing in my book.

Auto-Crits is usually the kind of house rule that comes from a novice DM's assumption that it should always have been like that in the first place. I know, that was once me. At this point in his DMing career he might lack the deeper system/math understanding to realize this makes for an incredibly lethal game and negates a bunch of other sub-systems like miss chances and concealment. You should talk one on one with him coming from this angle.

If you can, a compromise should be made to keep this to 20 only. This will provide the instant gratification thrill on a 20 roll this house rule usually seeks to provide.

[RNightstalker]

My current DM is more stubborn, and I barely got him to change how he has Nat 1 rolls on melee attacks work. He used to have an entire Crit failure system so I avoided weapon users entirely. Now he has Nat 1s as "Fumble Forward" or you Crit, but have a minor negative effect. Last combat one of the party rolled 1 on her attack, Crit killed the enemy but the blade got stuck and "took a standard action" to remove it from the body.

Someone needs a backup weapon.