Two approaches to a wizard's survivability

[Jaryn]

Say the party is often outnumbered and the wizard ends up in close combat for a bit (prior to Misty Stepping away).

The bladesinger and the abjurer take different approaches to surviving this scenario, one by boosting their AC and one by using their ward.

Does anyone have any anecdotal evidence or thoughts as to whether one of more effective than the other?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Say the party is often outnumbered and the wizard ends up in close combat for a bit (prior to Misty Stepping away).

The bladesinger and the abjurer take different approaches to surviving this scenario, one by boosting their AC and one by using their ward.

Does anyone have any anecdotal evidence or thoughts as to whether one of more effective than the other?

They both work, but the song stop you from wearing armor and as an abjurer wars doesn't.

If you take armor prof(highly recommend) you are better with anjurtion as it also save your concentration (the song do boost your concentration save but it is limited to 2 times a day and the ward can be renewed with rituals and stuff like deep gnomes)

[Eldariel]

They both work, but the song stop you from wearing armor and as an abjurer wars doesn't.

If you take armor prof(highly recommend) you are better with anjurtion as it also save your concentration (the song do boost your concentration save but it is limited to 2 times a day and the ward can be renewed with rituals and stuff like deep gnomes)

Why take armor proficiency, when Mage Armor exists and Wizard wants a decently high Dex for Initiative and skills anyways? I generally consider it a waste unless you get it for free from multiclass you'd take anyways.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Why take armor proficiency, when Mage Armor exists and Wizard wants a decently high Dex for Initiative and skills anyways? I generally consider it a waste unless you get it for free from multiclass you'd take anyways.

Because magic armor exist and so does shields.
Mage armor+dex is max 18 +5 from song max 23(25 with bracers of defence 26 if you add staff of defence).

Medium armor is 15+2+2 dex 19AC. 20 with staff of defence and a possible+6 from magic armor and shield max 26 with a maybe +1 from dex if you take the medium armor master feat.

You can get higher and you don't need to have a 2 per rest resource that you need to use.

[Jaryn]

Because magic armor exist and so does shields.
Mage armor+dex is max 18 +5 from song max 23(25 with bracers of defence 26 if you add staff of defence).

Medium armor is 15+2+2 dex 19AC. 20 with staff of defence and a possible+6 from magic armor and shield max 26 with a maybe +1 from dex if you take the medium armor master feat.

You can get higher and you don't need to have a 2 per rest resource that you need to use.

That would give an immensely great AC, although would involve sinking two feats into it I believe (lightly armoured and moderately armoured)? Now obviously this also increases your Dex/Str, but given you probably want to Max out your Int first you'd be looking at, what, 16th level?

It seems definitely feasible, and if you manage to get the requisite magic items would indeed make you really, really survivable, but it seems like quite the investment. Then again, is there any better investment than staying alive?!

[Sigreid]

On my current evoker I pumped his constitution so he can straight up take a hit or 2, which is similar to the ward. Here's the thing, there are a lot of opponents where you can't really get enough AC to save you.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

That would give an immensely great AC, although would involve sinking two feats into it I believe (lightly armoured and moderately armoured)? Now obviously this also increases your Dex/Str, but given you probably want to Max out your Int first you'd be looking at, what, 16th level?

It seems definitely feasible, and if you manage to get the requisite magic items would indeed make you really, really survivable, but it seems like quite the investment. Then again, is there any better investment than staying alive?!

There are races that gives armor prof.
The main problem I have with bladesinger is the 2 times per rest.
If you have a battle that made you lose your bladesong ones/twice you are in a bad place.
The arcana ward can be renewed with rituals, race spells and the usual defense spells casters take(shield and absorb elements).

It doesn't suffer the same limit and when your AC depends on an ability that can be turned on/off you are at risk if it is off vs static defense.

I am not saying that bladesong is bad, I love this ability, especially on a monk with a headband on intelligent. I just think that the archana ward works better for pure defence.

[Eldariel]

Because magic armor exist and so does shields.
Mage armor+dex is max 18 +5 from song max 23(25 with bracers of defence 26 if you add staff of defence).

Medium armor is 15+2+2 dex 19AC. 20 with staff of defence and a possible+6 from magic armor and shield max 26 with a maybe +1 from dex if you take the medium armor master feat.

You can get higher and you don't need to have a 2 per rest resource that you need to use.

Is that really worth it over any other feats you could be picking up though? That's the main question I'm interested in: would you, as a Wizard, spend feats gaining Armor Proficiency instead of...any of the things a feat could be doing? You still have spells to make you less likely to be hit, you have minions, and you can cast at range and have every incentive to not be attacked when your big defensive buffs are not online. IME an AC of Dex+Mage Armor is generally more than sufficient for a non-frontliner to fight the sporadic attacks that get through; saves are more important.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Is that really worth it over any other feats you could be picking up though? That's the main question I'm interested in: would you, as a Wizard, spend feats gaining Armor Proficiency instead of...any of the things a feat could be doing? You still have spells to make you less likely to be hit, you have minions, and you can cast at range and have every incentive to not be attacked when your big defensive buffs are not online. IME an AC of Dex+Mage Armor is generally more than sufficient for a non-frontliner to fight the sporadic attacks that get through; saves are more important.

Hubgoblins and Mountain Dwarfs, 1 level dips, first level dip and more ways to get medium armor proficiency. No one say you have to wast your ASI, spell DC is too important to lose.

And I forgot to factor Rob of the Arcmagi.
With it Bladesong is better but still limited for X times a day(AFB, don't remember if he is stuck at two or have the ability to get more).

[Arkhios]

I would argue that War Mage is slightly better than either of those in terms of consistent survivability.

Abjurer's Ward ability depends on casting an abjuration spell, and Blade Song lasts only for so long and doesn't have indefinite uses.

War Mage's Arcane Deflection adds a +2 bonus to AC or Saving Throw against one attack or spell as a reaction, and can be activated once you already know if the attack would hit or the saving throw would fail. Only a reaction. No other resource needs to be spent.
Later, War Mage gains a +2 bonus to AC and on (iirc, only constitution) saving throws (to maintain concentration when you take damage) for as long as you are concentrating on a spell. It stacks with Arcane Deflection and both stack with other means of AC.

[Rusvul]

Bladesong can be broken good. Assuming 18 Int and Dex, 13 + 4 + 4 = 21. Even with lower stats, you're on par with heavy armor + shield right off the bat. Combine that with Shield, and you're all but impossible to hit when you need to be all the way up through tiers one and two. As far as the anecdotal evidence goes, I played a hand xbow Crossbow Expert Bladesinger and used most of my spell slots for defense (game topped out at around 6th level), and I was borderline unkillable while being on-par with or better than the rest of the party when it came to DPR. Bladesinger's pretty OP, in my opinion.

Sure, Bladesong is only twice per short rest, but... that's a lot of bladesinging. It's pretty rare to have three fights between long rests, in my experience, and even when you can't Sing you're still a full-casting wizard with fireballs and Shield and all. Again to the anecdotes, when I played a bladesinger, I never once ran out of bladesongs. If there's anyone else in the party who cares at all about short rests (monk/warlock/battlemaster etc), you'll be fine in all but the most dire circumstances.

Abjurer is cool too, and makes a lot more sense thematically, but it can't compete with Bladesinger when it comes to straight-up self-defense. It does have the advantage, at level six, of being able to share the protection, though, which makes it more of a supportive subclass. An abjurer with battlefield control spells is equipped to prevent damage to their allies in a way that Bladesingers just can't do.

Mountain Dwarf, dips, and feats for armored wizardry are... fine? They up your AC a little, for sure, but the opportunity cost is pretty high. Unless you're in a very small party or you want to be able to handle a little bit of melee, I think Mage Armor, high dex, and careful use of positioning and spells to avoid taking too many hits is typically the better choice. A cautious wizard doesn't need excellent AC.

[Eldariel]

Hubgoblins and Mountain Dwarfs, 1 level dips, first level dip and more ways to get medium armor proficiency. No one say you have to wast your ASI, spell DC is too important to lose.

You have 1st level feat regardless of ASIs, but I'd definitely not be picking Armor Proficiency before your usual Warcaster/Resilient: Con/Lucky/Alert/etc. Hobgoblin and Mountain Dwarf has quite the opportunity cost of not getting Variant Human bonus feat, Elven Accuracy, etc. though. Again, you're trading resources for something that's far less relevant to you. Same with one level dips: you say spell DC is too important to lose but it's even more important not to delay your high level spell access since every level is a game changer. Thus, I don't think there's a good trade-off available at all; while not terrible, I think not taking armor proficiency is strictly speaking stronger than going for armor proficiency.

[Spacehamster]

Bladesong can be broken good. Assuming 18 Int and Dex, 13 + 4 + 4 = 21. Even with lower stats, you're on par with heavy armor + shield right off the bat. Combine that with Shield, and you're all but impossible to hit when you need to be all the way up through tiers one and two. As far as the anecdotal evidence goes, I played a hand xbow Crossbow Expert Bladesinger and used most of my spell slots for defense (game topped out at around 6th level), and I was borderline unkillable while being on-par with or better than the rest of the party when it came to DPR. Bladesinger's pretty OP, in my opinion.

Sure, Bladesong is only twice per short rest, but... that's a lot of bladesinging. It's pretty rare to have three fights between long rests, in my experience, and even when you can't Sing you're still a full-casting wizard with fireballs and Shield and all. Again to the anecdotes, when I played a bladesinger, I never once ran out of bladesongs. If there's anyone else in the party who cares at all about short rests (monk/warlock/battlemaster etc), you'll be fine in all but the most dire circumstances.

Abjurer is cool too, and makes a lot more sense thematically, but it can't compete with Bladesinger when it comes to straight-up self-defense. It does have the advantage, at level six, of being able to share the protection, though, which makes it more of a supportive subclass. An abjurer with battlefield control spells is equipped to prevent damage to their allies in a way that Bladesingers just can't do.

Mountain Dwarf, dips, and feats for armored wizardry are... fine? They up your AC a little, for sure, but the opportunity cost is pretty high. Unless you're in a very small party or you want to be able to handle a little bit of melee, I think Mage Armor, high dex, and careful use of positioning and spells to avoid taking too many hits is typically the better choice. A cautious wizard doesn't need excellent AC.

True but also very DM dependent, if DM is of the “kill the one in the dress” mentality, then some armor investment might be worth its weight in gold. :)

[LudicSavant]

Say the party is often outnumbered and the wizard ends up in close combat for a bit (prior to Misty Stepping away).

The bladesinger and the abjurer take different approaches to surviving this scenario, one by boosting their AC and one by using their ward.

Does anyone have any anecdotal evidence or thoughts as to whether one of more effective than the other?

Both subclasses have their pros and cons.

Abjurers will often find some efficient way of getting armor (Hobgoblin/Moderately Armored is one of the good ones, especially because they get the truly excellent Save Face too). On top of that, they'll get plenty of hit points (more than a Fighter), the ability to use them to protect allies, superior counterspells, and Spell Resistance (which both gives you Advantage on saves against spells and Resistance to their damage). Great against pretty much every form of offense.

Bladesong provides great AC and Concentration, but is limited a bit by the fact that it requires an activation. This means that before your turn in initiative comes up, you're fully vulnerable. It also means that your defenses go down if you're Incapacitated for some reason (such as being Stunned). And of course, AC is only going to defend you from AC-targeting attacks, and Song of Defense is only really good against fat single hits (and won't always be better than using the slot on something else). Basically, you're still situationally vulnerable in a way that the Abjurer isn't really.

[Dork_Forge]

They both work, but the song stop you from wearing armor and as an abjurer wars doesn't.

If you take armor prof(highly recommend) you are better with anjurtion as it also save your concentration (the song do boost your concentration save but it is limited to 2 times a day and the ward can be renewed with rituals and stuff like deep gnomes)

It doesn't stop you wearing armor, it actually GIVES you prof with light armor, you just can't use medium or heavy and nor do you have any reason to want to besides there maybe being a magic set of armor handed out (and a full martial not getting dibs). For clarification the song is twice per short rest, if you regularly have more than 2 encounters per short rest (obviously table dependent, but I think the minority of tables) then abjuration is clearly better. Though at that point you'd probably want to cast catnap on yourself and two other party members anyway to help get through things.

[Dork_Forge]

Both subclasses have their pros and cons.

Abjurers will often find some efficient way of getting armor (Hobgoblin/Moderately Armored is one of the good ones, especially because they get the truly excellent Save Face too). On top of that, they'll get plenty of hit points (more than a Fighter), the ability to use them to protect allies, superior counterspells, and Spell Resistance (which both gives you Advantage on saves against spells and Resistance to their damage). Great against pretty much every form of offense.

Bladesong provides great AC and Concentration, but is limited a bit by the fact that it requires an activation. This means that before your turn in initiative comes up, you're fully vulnerable. It also means that your defenses go down if you're Incapacitated for some reason (such as being Stunned). And of course, AC is only going to defend you from AC-targeting attacks, and Song of Defense is only really good against fat single hits (and won't always be better than using the slot on something else). Basically, you're still situationally vulnerable in a way that the Abjurer isn't really.

Out of curiosity, what does an armored Abjurer cast at the beginning of the day? The only thing that came to mind was the redundant Mage Armor.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Out of curiosity, what does an armored Abjurer cast at the beginning of the day? The only thing that came to mind was the redundant Mage Armor.

Alarm is a level 1 anjurtion spell and a ritual so you don't even wast a slot.

You can also be a deep gnome with the relevant feat to cast non detection on the party(very useful in some campaigns).

[Gignere]

I play wizards, especially Divination. I’ve played it without mage armor, without getting armor proficiencies. Unless something crazy sh*t hits the fan I am usually untouched by anyone or anything. Defense for mages is really about positioning.

When we’re exploring use your familiar to find out what’s coming ahead, damn owl has 120 darkvision so it should see just about anything before it gets seen if it’s non magical darkness.

Move behind obstacles and only come out to cast. In 5e it’s never easier to move, cast, move again. Use your familiar as eyes when possible.

If there isn’t natural cover create some, minor illusion, silent image fog cloud, etc. Hell even running away, just out of the range of the monsters special senses works fantastic.

Fighting a creature with 30 feet tremorsense but blind, go beyond 30 feet and you’re effectively invisible and hidden. This is where knowledge rolls which you’re good at comes in handy or you can metagame.

Don’t rely on direct damage to contribute get a hat of disguise to appear like you’re in full plate. Hell my wizard ended up with elven chain and carrying a long sword. So you can’t even tell he’s a mage.

Typical strategy for me is find cover/ create cover —-> buff or debuff or summon minions—-> familiar help actions —-> finally deal damage preferably behind cover. The idea is to make it such that AC and HP doesn’t matter because you deny the chance of even an attack roll against you. Or if they try it it’s at disadvantage without line of sight. And if the enemies spend actions to counter my defenses great my team can mop them up.

[Dork_Forge]

Alarm is a level 1 anjurtion spell and a ritual so you don't even wast a slot.

You can also be a deep gnome with the relevant feat to cast non detection on the party(very useful in some campaigns).

But... why would you cast Alarm at the end of a long rest when you are moving on from an area? Looking at the Wizard list the only Abjuration spell it would have made sense to cast straight away would have been Mage Armor...

[Eldariel]

But... why would you cast Alarm at the end of a long rest when you are moving on from an area? Looking at the Wizard list the only Abjuration spell it would have made sense to cast straight away would have been Mage Armor...

His point is you cast it just for the Abjuration bonus as a ritual in the morning: this doesn't cost you a spell slot essentially granting you the Abjurer bonus for free.