dumb question about vampires.

[Wizard_Lizard]

so... a vampire is the host's worst day personified....
so... what if a completely, thoroughly evil psycopath became a vampire.. and this evil psycopath's worst day, and only regret was him doing a nice thing...

How would that vampire work?

[Schroeswald]

so... a vampire is the host's worst day personified....
so... what if a completely, thoroughly evil psycopath became a vampire.. and this evil psycopath's worst day, and only regret was him doing a nice thing...

How would that vampire work?

It would be Good.

[Wizard_Lizard]

It would be Good.

how would that work though...

[Jannoire]

Trying to use his abilities to influence the society into doing good?

How do non-vampires being good work?
Imagine just the same, just a new set of teeth and an umbrella against the sun

[Fyraltari]

so... a vampire is the host's worst day personified....
so... what if a completely, thoroughly evil psycopath became a vampire.. and this evil psycopath's worst day, and only regret was him doing a nice thing...

How would that vampire work?
I’m pretty sure this is not how people work.

Also I think it’s worst day as in ‘‘the day you felt the worst’’, nite that Durkon did not do anything in his worst day besides impotently raging at people who aren’t there. It’s not about regrets, it’s about how one felt.

[EmperorSarda]

so... a vampire is the host's worst day personified....
so... what if a completely, thoroughly evil psycopath became a vampire.. and this evil psycopath's worst day, and only regret was him doing a nice thing...

How would that vampire work?

Sounds like the vampire would be more like Ponchella (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1112.html). Except the host would be more eager to continue inflicting evil deeds.

[Fnordius]

I think the vampire would be overcome by a burning desire to undo that one "good deed". That said, I think that is too literal an interpretation of how vampires work, as Ponchella proved: she stated that her host was more than willing to go along with being a vampire. So your hypothetical vampire in a psychopath would find that one bit of regret decoupled, and act out the psychopath's worst intentions.

Now, I do not think the psychopath's trapped soul would enjoy it at all, because the psychopath would hate being a passenger in his or her own body. But the vampire would simply look at the psychopath's memories and go "huh, I didn't realise that was possible. Let's see if we can do that again."

[Worldsong]

I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario in which someone's worst moment/feeling is linked to doing good without all that negativity somehow including resentment.

Especially since Durkon's words strongly imply that even though his memory overflow had forced the vampire to become a copy of him the negative energy the vampire's essence is made out of would twist him back into some evil version eventually.

So you'd need a scenario where to not want to do good would actually be a complete contradiction with the core of the vampire-self.

[Erys]

so... a vampire is the host's worst day personified....
so... what if a completely, thoroughly evil psycopath became a vampire.. and this evil psycopath's worst day, and only regret was him doing a nice thing...

How would that vampire work?

When Greg opened up and absorbed all the feels- he turned to Durkon. But the real Durkon was also still trapped in his mind.

I imagine it would be a lot like this. But sort of inverse...

The psychopaths real soul would be trapped like normal, but his daemon master looks just like him. It goes where he wants to go and kills where he wants to kill, so who cares if technically 'its' in control.

[Particle_Man]

That reminds me of Deadlands. That game has the Harrowed, who are dead cowboys that can act mostly normal except there is a demon inside them that periodically tries to take control for a while and make them do evil things.

But there is one Harrowed that is so deadly, mean and relentless that the demon inside him basically just sleeps because there is nothing it needs to force that Harrowed to do.

[Dungeon-noob]

That reminds me of Deadlands. That game has the Harrowed, who are dead cowboys that can act mostly normal except there is a demon inside them that periodically tries to take control for a while and make them do evil things.

But there is one Harrowed that is so deadly, mean and relentless that the demon inside him basically just sleeps because there is nothing it needs to force that Harrowed to do.
Worse, i know which Harrowed you mean, and it's not that his Manitou isn't required to take control, he's actively AFRAID of his host and just tries to stay as far away from him as he can. It helps that said Harrowed is one of the horsemen.

[Squire Doodad]

Worse, i know which Harrowed you mean, and it's not that his Manitou isn't required to take control, he's actively AFRAID of his host and just tries to stay as far away from him as he can. It helps that said Harrowed is one of the horsemen.

But wouldn't all cowboys be horsemen?

[D.One]

But wouldn't all cowboys be horsemen?

Unless they are cowmen, or bullmen, or some other sort of anthropomorphic being.


Edit:

Correcting myself, we should call then horsefolk, cowfolk, bullfolk, etc...

[WolvesbaneIII]

I also have a dumb question, unrelated to the original poster.

Is there a spell that can simulate blood drinking and restore a vampire to full health in terms of not only HP, but also as if the vampire had drank blood without drinking?

I read that vampires can drink animal blood, but it tastes bad or something to them.

But outside of a home brew spell, does any spell have the same or a similar effect to a good blood feeding?

As to to the original post, I guess the vampire would take on the worst thing the host did, not take on the best thing they did as an ironic gesture.

Like vampire hitler wouldn't go back to art school, he'd continue his worst things he did but worse, because he's an undead abomination revived through negative energy.

[Particle_Man]

I imagine that prestidigitation could flavour animal blood to make it taste good to vampires.

[WolvesbaneIII]

I imagine that prestidigitation could flavour animal blood to make it taste good to vampires.

taste is subjective, so perhaps a barbarian who drank blood of animals as a token ritual to his god might enjoy animal blood via his hosts origin.

I don't know if that would be ok in D&D, and whther or not it would have any side effects, but I guess a quick spell should undo any damage from drinking blood in a race that doesn't drink blood normally.

[Squire Doodad]

taste is subjective, so perhaps a barbarian who drank blood of animals as a token ritual to his god might enjoy animal blood via his hosts origin.

I don't know if that would be ok in D&D, and whther or not it would have any side effects, but I guess a quick spell should undo any damage from drinking blood in a race that doesn't drink blood normally.

It's DnD: you can fix just about anything will a spell, the only thing holding you back is a lack of ingredients and power to cast aforementioned spell.

Though in this case I doubt it's anything high level, probably a quick remove disease or cure light wounds if someone starts to violently choke. Actually, maybe a heimlich in that case. And a fresh change of clothes.

[Gift Jeraff]

It's possible "worst day" means "you at your most Evil" rather than what you personally feel was your worst.

[Squire Doodad]

It's possible "worst day" means "you at your most Evil" rather than what you personally feel was your worst.

Unless spouting insults while being completely and utterly thrown out by the only home you've ever known without any justification or warning counts as Evil, I'm pretty sure it's not a matter of being Evil.

Then again, knowing Durkon, that could have been his day of being the most evil.

[WolvesbaneIII]

It's DnD: you can fix just about anything will a spell, the only thing holding you back is a lack of ingredients and power to cast aforementioned spell.

Though in this case I doubt it's anything high level, probably a quick remove disease or cure light wounds if someone starts to violently choke. Actually, maybe a heimlich in that case. And a fresh change of clothes.

Ok, thats a good point.

But is there a spell to restore a vampires mojo that he gets from feeding on blood without actually feeding?

Like a "fake blood" spell that simulates feeding without actually feeding?

[Emanick]

Ok, thats a good point.

But is there a spell to restore a vampires mojo that he gets from feeding on blood without actually feeding?

Like a "fake blood" spell that simulates feeding without actually feeding?

I'm pretty sure that no such spell exists, at least from official sources, but on the off-chance that you own it or have the money to blow on it, you might want to check the sourcebook Libris Mortis just in case.

[hamishspence]

Depending on if "life-sustaining nourishment" includes "unlife-sustaining", the Ring of Sustenance magical item may qualify:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#sustenance

[Jannoire]

Correcting myself, we should call then horsefolk, cowfolk, bullfolk, etc...

The horsefeminists, cow feminists and bullfeminists must be really proud of you...

[Worldsong]

It's possible "worst day" means "you at your most Evil" rather than what you personally feel was your worst.


Unless spouting insults while being completely and utterly thrown out by the only home you've ever known without any justification or warning counts as Evil, I'm pretty sure it's not a matter of being Evil.

Then again, knowing Durkon, that could have been his day of being the most evil.

Given that Durkon's worst day appeared to be based around despair, solitude, homesickness and uncertainty I'd say it's likely that your worst day is when you're feeling more awful than at any other time.

The essence of the vampire most likely helps twist those awful feelings into something evil. That way even if your worst day was caused by deep sorrow, which in itself definitely doesn't have to lead to evil, that sorrow can be turned into hatred towards the world which dared to make you feel that way.

Especially since for a lot of people their worst day wasn't one where they could act strong, but the vampires seem to all be capable of being quite active and energetic.

[Fyraltari]

The essence of the vampire most likely helps twist those awful feelings into something evil.

There’s no need for that. Pain breeds resentment anger and hatred. So since the very first thing the vampire experiences is pain, they become resentful, angry and hateful. And since it is the vampire’s first memory it colors every other, which is what Durkon meant when he talked about experiencing life in order. When Durkon was taught the value of being a good person Durkon* knew that the dwarves would cast him out so that feeling of anger overcame Sigdi’s words. And opposite of that, after Durkon was done ranting at the snow, his wealth of positive memories of the childhood he had had and the vampire lacked allowed him to overcome his pain.

The vampire’s plan was basically a newborn crying about being left in the dark and feeling betrayed for the first time except with and adult’s intelligence and means of action.

[Worldsong]

There’s no need for that. Pain breeds resentment anger and hatred. So since the very first thing the vampire experiences is pain, they become resentful, angry and hateful. And since it is the vampire’s first memory it colors every other, which is what Durkon meant when he talked about experiencing life in order. When Durkon was taught the value of being a good person Durkon* knew that the dwarves would cast him out so that feeling of anger overcame Sigdi’s words. And opposite of that, after Durkon was done ranting at the snow, his wealth of positive memories of the childhood he had had and the vampire lacked allowed him to overcome his pain.

The vampire’s plan was basically a newborn crying about being left in the dark and feeling betrayed for the first time except with and adult’s intelligence and means of action.

I dunno, I've always felt like deep sorrow is pretty far from evil despite being a negative emotion. While it's definitely true that for a lot of people the response to suffering is to lash out at the world I could definitely imagine that if the negative energy doesn't twist their thoughts there could be vampires who are shaped by misery but who just withdraw into themselves rather than declaring the rest of the world their enemy.

Although either way Durkon appears to believe that the negative energy the vampire consists of will eventually turn his vampire self back into an evil personality, so regardless of whether it's intentional or not vampires have a negative force pushing them towards evil, in the same way that in a lot of stories the way to turn someone evil is to bring them to despair and then push them over the edge rather than trust them to make the jump themselves.

[Wizard_Lizard]

This brings up another point, what if you never had a bad day? Whil I know this is practically impossible. Theoretically, if you never had any regrets and only did good deeds, then how would your vampire turn out?

[RatElemental]

This brings up another point, what if you never had a bad day? Whil I know this is practically impossible. Theoretically, if you never had any regrets and only did good deeds, then how would your vampire turn out?

Personally I don't think there's much good to be had discussing what would happen if you turned a newborn into a vampire.

Seriously though, I think the premise of this thread might be flawed from the start. Greg said he was Durkon's worst day personified, not that all vampire spirits are their host's worst day personified. And we even have evidence that other Vampire/Host dynamics don't fit the same mold as Greg and Durkon. The Exargh hated his host for rebelling against the life that had been laid out before him, becoming a manifestation of the sort of person who would have gone along with the plan for Gontor. Ponchula and her host actively got along with each other, the vampire spirit being a manifestation of what her host always secretly wanted to be.

[Riftwolf]

Think you're viewing this hypothetical psychopath a bit too one-dimensionally. Doing good wouldn't be anathema to them, because sometimes you have to do quasi-good actions to present yourself as normal so you're not arrested/run out of town. The psychopaths worst day would be when he felt the most powerless. Something that happened where he was ultimately outclassed, helpless, and unable to control the situation.
His vampire would be the most paranoid, overthinking, machivellian train wreck we'd ever have seen. Theywouldn't prepare Protection from Daylight twice, they'd prepare it three times, plus have two rings of daylight protection and the staff, and never tell anyone this. And they'd still not go out much. They'd train their UMD up so they could use scrolls of contingency so thet could word of recall without casting a spell. They'd still prepare WoR just in case, not tell anyone where their sanctum was, and still trap it so unless you ported to the exact spot they landed, you'd get crushed/planeshifted/shunted into the walls.
In short, we'd have the vampire everyone complains Malack wasn't.

[Squire Doodad]

In short, we'd have the vampire everyone complains Malack wasn't.

Odds are then we'd complain because Nale would have pinned him down while Z kept on dispelling his Protection from Daylight, which the UberMalack would have had to cast each turn because he figured that Word of Recall would be counterspelled and cause him to die of sunlight.

And then when he runs out he uses Word of Recall, which is counterspelled.

[Riftwolf]

Odds are then we'd complain because Nale would have pinned him down while Z kept on dispelling his Protection from Daylight, which the UberMalack would have had to cast each turn because he figured that Word of Recall would be counterspelled and cause him to die of sunlight.

And then when he runs out he uses Word of Recall, which is counterspelled.

And the comic would be considerably slower and less impactful for it.

I got thinking about what Malacks worst day must've been for him to turn out how he did. He put a lot of stock in Nergal; I'm wondering if lack of belief had caused a regrettable but easily avoided tragedy.

[Worldsong]

And the comic would be considerably slower and less impactful for it.

I got thinking about what Malacks worst day must've been for him to turn out how he did. He put a lot of stock in Nergal; I'm wondering if lack of belief had caused a regrettable but easily avoided tragedy.

Keep in mind that Malack as a vampire was over two hundred years old and vampires do appear to develop as people the same way living folk do. His current personality could have been a lot different from the one he had during his first couple of decades as a vampire, when who he was before he got turned still had a strong influence on him.

The modern Malack doesn't seem to feel any similarity or connection to his past self at all.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

Keep in mind that Malack as a vampire was over two hundred years old and vampires do appear to develop as people the same way living folk do. His current personality could have been a lot different from the one he had during his first couple of decades as a vampire, when who he was before he got turned still had a strong influence on him.

The modern Malack doesn't seem to feel any similarity or connection to his past self at all.

Yes. Durkon* may have said a vampire is your worst day personified, but that only really counts for however long it takes to absorb all your memories. After that, the vampire is a vampire, not a soul prison for its host. They are free to figure out their own personality

[Squire Doodad]

Yes. Durkon* may have said a vampire is your worst day personified, but that only really counts for however long it takes to absorb all your memories. After that, the vampire is a vampire, not a soul prison for its host. They are free to figure out their own personality

Yeah! Vamp rights!
...maybe let the dormant soul out first.