Double Scimitar, Revenant Blade, Builds

[Trickery]

Now that this weapon exists, what can we build with it?

With the feat (Elf only for no good reason other than designers loving elves and always pulling this crap, looking at you, Bladesinger), it's the only two-handed finesse weapon that I know of (barring rare magical items). It has a built-in bonus action attack that, after the feat, does 1.5 more damage than a shot from a crossbow expert hand crossbow. Because it's a melee weapon, it has good potential for reaction attacks.

All of the above make it an optimal choice for melee rogues. Elf -> Revenant Blade -> Elven Accuracy would be a reasonable level 8 Rogue build for any Rogue archetype.

In fact, this weapon is now the optimal Dex weapon for pure melee damage, if you can afford the feat. The downside is that you can't pickup GWM or Sharpshooter, so you'll be behind archers and strength fighters for damage (and not by an insignificant margin). But one thing you can get with it is defensive duelist. Fighters, given how many feats they can afford, can make a pretty good defensive build using this weapon. Revenant Blade and DD on a Cavalier fighter might work well.

Speaking of fighters, the weapon benefits disproportionately from great weapon fighting. You'll be rerolling half of your damage dice.

Bladesingers can't use this weapon. It's two handed and thus interferes with their bladesong. This seems like poor design. You can't go full Elf with your Elf because of this stipulation.

Now that we have a single melee Dex weapon that can make bonus action attacks and deal competitive damage, we can finally make a pretty decent blade pact warlock without having to multiclass or pick Hexblade. Hexblade will still deal the most damage (standard half elf GWM Elven Accuracy is still the best for pure DPR), but there's nothing wrong with a Revenant Blade Fey Patron Blade Pact Half-Elf or Drow warlock, for example. And they can still take the standard Elven Accuracy route for strong critical hits after Eldritch Smite, if so inclined, though Warcaster may be a better feat choice for general purposes.

What else? Are there any other classes or builds for which this weapon would be ideal?

[jaappleton]

Paladin.

Bonus action attack with Improved Divine Smite? Works with the Greatweapon Fighting Style? Or pick Defense style, and with the +1 to AC from the Revenant Blade feat, you're basically getting three attacks while still using a shield.

My DM hand-waived the race restriction and let me use it on my Tabaxi Dex-based Ancients Paladin. LOVING IT. I'm basically Ajani from MtG.

[Trickery]

Paladin.

Bonus action attack with Improved Divine Smite? Works with the Greatweapon Fighting Style? Or pick Defense style, and with the +1 to AC from the Revenant Blade feat, you're basically getting three attacks while still using a shield.

My DM hand-waived the race restriction and let me use it on my Tabaxi Dex-based Ancients Paladin. LOVING IT. I'm basically Ajani from MtG.

Nice one. A Dexadin is definitely a good option. Sorcadin and padlock would also work well for the same reasons.

[Misterwhisper]

There is no reason you have to use dex for it. You could easily take the feat and still use strength.

It is literally the best melee weapon in the game no matter what build you use unless you are combining PAM and GWM and even then it is iffy.

This one weapon put the nail in the coffin of anyone ever having a reason to play a two weapon fighter.

One of my players made a half elf barbarian and was just murdering things left and right.

Same with a Battlemaster we had too.

Since it came out nobody in my group has used a different melee weapon.

Not even sword and board.

[Trickery]

There is no reason you have to use dex for it. You could easily take the feat and still use strength.

It is literally the best melee weapon in the game no matter what build you use unless you are combining PAM and GWM and even then it is iffy.

This one weapon put the nail in the coffin of anyone ever having a reason to play a two weapon fighter.

One of my players made a half elf barbarian and was just murdering things left and right.

Same with a Battlemaster we had too.

Since it came out nobody in my group has used a different melee weapon.

Not even sword and board.

I've seen the comparisons to TWF, but that style was bad already. We shouldn't judge everything that looks vaguely like it against TWF because that's like saying a build is overpowered if it's better than a purple dragon knight using a blowgun.

I'm not surprised everyone in your group has switched to this weapon either, because it's new. It's still not doing as much damage as GWM or SS + CBE no matter how you swing it.

But yes, strength characters can also use the weapon. That's a good point. Though I have trouble thinking of any strength characters who, optimally, would use this weapon. Other feats are better for damage or defense. This thing is somewhere in the middle.

[jaappleton]

If I'm using STR I want either a GWM build or sword n board with shield master.

Every other build is Dex.

[Trickery]

If I'm using STR I want either a GWM build or sword n board with shield master.

Every other build is Dex.

What about Charisma? I'm not convinced that this is the best possible weapon on a Hexblade or Hexblade multiclass.

[jaappleton]

What about Charisma? I'm not convinced that this is the best possible weapon on a Hexblade or Hexblade multiclass.

Whether using a casting stat, such as Charisma (Hexblade, Shillalegh), or Wisdom (Shillalegh), or Intelligence (via Battle Master Artificer), I want something that'll give me a bonus action attack. So Polearm Master, the Revenant Blade, Crossbow Expert, etc.

And I'll try to couple that with Arcane Weapon, or Hex, or Hunter's Mark.

[DarknessEternal]

One of my players made a half elf barbarian and was just murdering things left and right.

Did he know it doesn’t work with GWM and reckless attack only works on strength attacks?

[nmitchell890]

Wood Elf Ranger (Hunter) 5/ Cleric X. Three attacks per round (four if you trigger Horde Breaker) with Divine Favour. Of course if you get high enough then Fighter 11 is better than anything Ranger ever offers but you can use this build in AL for at least half your characters life (afaik AL goes up to 12th level).

[Misterwhisper]

Did he know it doesn’t work with GWM and reckless attack only works on strength attacks?

Due to his ability to read, yes.

Just because something g has finesse does not mean you have to use it.

An extra attack for no investment with a stat bonus that can also get rage damage is very nice.

I am not even sure if he ever even took the feat for it.

[Damon_Tor]

Did he know it doesn’t work with GWM and reckless attack only works on strength attacks?

GWM is overrated. The accuracy penalty means its only worth using on enemies with low AC to begin with, and any enemy worth taking a feat for is going to have high AC.

[Trickery]

GWM is overrated. The accuracy penalty means its only worth using on enemies with low AC to begin with, and any enemy worth taking a feat for is going to have high AC.

Last time I calculated it out, GWM added quite a bit more damage than any other option for a Strength character, especially stats. You have to calculate it with hit chance in mind. The higher the hit chance, the more damage GWM adds. This is one reason why SS is an even more effective damage increase than GWM, because archery fighting style artificially increases your hit chance.

Which is not to say the CBE + SS does more damage than PAM + GWM on a fighter, only that SS adds more damage than GWM does, all other things being equal.

[Gignere]

GWM is overrated. The accuracy penalty means its only worth using on enemies with low AC to begin with, and any enemy worth taking a feat for is going to have high AC.

You don’t use it on everything and every time. Got an attack buff up and/or advantage go nuts. Got debuffed or disadvantage and hitting something with high AC stop using it.

But overall it adds a lot of DPR, and even the AC need to be really high before it’s an expected DPR loss.

[Damon_Tor]

You don’t use it on everything and every time.

A fact I don't think people properly take into account when judging the value of the feat.

If the feat adds thrice as much DPR (as compared to +2 Str) against 20% of targets, twice as much vs 30% of targets, about the same vs 20% of targets and detrimental vs 30% of targets, what is the actual value of the feat? If the feat might as well not exist vs 50% of creatures, that fact has to be weighed against the value of the feat.

Note I didn't say it's a bad feat: I said it's an overrated feat.

[samcifer]

Now that this weapon exists, what can we build with it?

With the feat (Elf only for no good reason other than designers loving elves and always pulling this crap, looking at you, Bladesinger), it's the only two-handed finesse weapon that I know of (barring rare magical items). It has a built-in bonus action attack that, after the feat, does 1.5 more damage than a shot from a crossbow expert hand crossbow. Because it's a melee weapon, it has good potential for reaction attacks.

All of the above make it an optimal choice for melee rogues. Elf -> Revenant Blade -> Elven Accuracy would be a reasonable level 8 Rogue build for any Rogue archetype.

In fact, this weapon is now the optimal Dex weapon for pure melee damage, if you can afford the feat. The downside is that you can't pickup GWM or Sharpshooter, so you'll be behind archers and strength fighters for damage (and not by an insignificant margin). But one thing you can get with it is defensive duelist. Fighters, given how many feats they can afford, can make a pretty good defensive build using this weapon. Revenant Blade and DD on a Cavalier fighter might work well.

Speaking of fighters, the weapon benefits disproportionately from great weapon fighting. You'll be rerolling half of your damage dice.

Bladesingers can't use this weapon. It's two handed and thus interferes with their bladesong. This seems like poor design. You can't go full Elf with your Elf because of this stipulation.

Now that we have a single melee Dex weapon that can make bonus action attacks and deal competitive damage, we can finally make a pretty decent blade pact warlock without having to multiclass or pick Hexblade. Hexblade will still deal the most damage (standard half elf GWM Elven Accuracy is still the best for pure DPR), but there's nothing wrong with a Revenant Blade Fey Patron Blade Pact Half-Elf or Drow warlock, for example. And they can still take the standard Elven Accuracy route for strong critical hits after Eldritch Smite, if so inclined, though Warcaster may be a better feat choice for general purposes.

What else? Are there any other classes or builds for which this weapon would be ideal?

What source is this combo from? Is it a campaign book or something?

[Khrysaes]

What source is this combo from? Is it a campaign book or something?

Valenar double scimitar is in Wayfinders Guide to Eberron. Same with Revenant blade.

The VDS is a 2d4+stat two handed weapon that inherently gives a 1d4+stat bonus action attack.

Because it is two handed, it works with the Great Weapon Fighting style, which just requires two handed weapons. It isn't heavy, so it doesnt work with Great Weapon Mastery feat.

The Revenant Blade feat is Elf only(Maybe half elf), but gives +1 str or +1dex, makes the bonus action attack a 2d4 + stat attack, gives +1 AC, and turns the weapon into a finesse weapon, meaning a person could use DEX as their stat.

On average WITH the fighting style and feat, each hit does 9 damage.

The Defensive duelist feat is in the players handbook.

Elven accuracy feat is in Xanathar's guide to everything.

The VDS will do the highest minimum damage of melee weapon, but with GWM feat, a greatsword(21 damage per hit) or Polearm(19 damage per hit) will do more damage on average per hit than two hits of the VDS. The problem is the -5 to hit from GWM.

[samcifer]

So for fun, I made up a swashbuckler/champion and took Revnant Blade, Elven Accuracy and Sentinel for my ASIs and with max dex, I was doing 50 to 75 damage per turn on 3 attacks with this build on test-attack rolls with advantage against an AC of 20.

[Trickery]

So for fun, I made up a swashbuckler/champion and took Revnant Blade, Elven Accuracy and Sentinel for my ASIs and with max dex, I was doing 50 to 75 damage per turn on 3 attacks with this build on test-attack rolls with advantage against an AC of 20.

How many levels of each?

[samcifer]

How many levels of each?

Rogue 5 / fighter 6... Might re-arrange for better saves as dex saves haven't come up for us more than once and int saves never have at all.


EDIT: So... I tried out a paladin 5/(Arcane Trickster for more spell slots) rogue 5/hexblade 1 build and with Hexblade's Curse and Oath of Vengeance's Vow of Enmity active on the same target and giving them an
aC of 20, I got a crit, added a sneak attack to that as well as two more attacks, and a level 1 smite on all 3 attacks and got 100 damage during those 3 attacks during an example second turn after the first round to set up the abilities.