Should WotC make an updated PHB DmG

[Whit]

First off , I can attest to the HATRED of buying constant updated books like the guide to Every class. 2ed,3ed, 3.5ed phb etc etc etc
However, as 5ed has seen Great success and I don’t see it changing anytime soon, should WotC take this moment to modify and add or change certain things Into a new PHB DMG?

Is there enough to warrant it or not.

Please list if it should or not be done
Please list what should be fixed if enough to warrant a revised book.

Example. Fixing the errata , finally fixing the ranger and arch types.

[Misterwhisper]

Yes, they absolutely should, but they won’t.

[GreyBlack]

First off , I can attest to the HATRED of buying constant updated books like the guide to Every class. 2ed,3ed, 3.5ed phb etc etc etc
However, as 5ed has seen Great success and I don’t see it changing anytime soon, should WotC take this moment to modify and add or change certain things Into a new PHB DMG?

Is there enough to warrant it or not.

Please list if it should or not be done
Please list what should be fixed if enough to warrant a revised book.

Example. Fixing the errata , finally fixing the ranger and arch types.

Sort of like a 5.5e as it were?

As above. They probably should but won't.

[Tawmis]

Or, they could release things they've changed in upcoming books.

So for example if they release, "The Beholder's Guide to the Underdark" - they could make notes in the book where they've made changes that are applied to the DMG, PHP and/or even monsters. Rather than doing PHP 5.5, DMG 5.5, etc etc.

[Yuki Akuma]

You mean like every edition of D&D that has been released in the past couple of decades?

Nah, that's completely unlikely.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Incorporating errata, sure. But I don't think they ever should print a new version of a rulebook with significant changes to... anything, really-- that's a recipe for confusion. The right formula, I think, is something like what they've done with the Tiefling in the Sword Coast Guide and Mordenkainin's Tome of Foes-- introduce an optional variant version.

(It's also a complete separate question from if there will be a 5.5e or 6e edition, which will almost certainly happen eventually but will be a lot more than just a few small tweaks.)

[Atranen]

I don't really see a need for it. It reminds me of Monte Cook's 3.5 review: (oops not allowed to post links; try Montecook 3.5 review webarchive on your search engine of choice)
where one of his main points was: "there's no real point in printing new books that make subtle but important changes because they erode people's acquired knowledge and system mastery without substantial benefit".

And that rings true here; the issues with 5E aren't big enough to justify an overhaul, just a few spot changes. And optional variants in newly printed rulebooks do a much better job of dealing with that than altogether new rulebooks.

[Brookshw]

I wouldn't buy a new one, but would love all errata in one place.

[Dr paradox]

I could see the appeal, and there's precedent: 2e released revised core books in 1995, even with the specification that they WEREN'T third edition or 2.5 in the introduction.

[Trickery]

Only if it's 5.5e. Otherwise they should just keep the errata easily accessible.

I won't be surprised if the next edition is app-focused.

[Sigreid]

If they did, I would not be interested in buying it. As far as whether they should or not, I think that would depend on whether enough people would re-buy it.

[GlenSmash!]

WotC would only do so if momentum for 5e has sufficiently slowed down to warrant a revision.

It's smarter for them to release new Starter Sets to attract new players to the game, and Optional rules to help tweak things that don't jive for current players (while keeping the original for those current players for whom it does jive)

[LordEntrails]

No.
Don't they already include the errata when they do new print lots? I thought they did, but since I don't buy dead tree. Anyway, my Fantasy Grounds version is kept up to date automatically every-time an errata is published so yea, I've got a current source. I assume DDB & Roll20 also keep the errata updates.

But no, their should not be a 5.5E. Or any errata that functionally changes anything. Eventually they will publish a new ranger in some AP book, but it may just be revised sub-classes or something rather than a full revamp of the class (i.e. nothing to obsolete the PHB version.)

[Beleriphon]

Well, the accumulate errata has made its way into each subsequent printing of a book. The PHB is on the 10th printing now, so it has a bunch of errata include already if you happen to have a newly printed copy.

[BloodOgre]

WotC was purchased by Hasbro some time ago. Hasbro is a publicly traded company with shareholders and a board of directors. As such it needs to make a profit. Therefore, it's subsidiaries, like WotC, also need to make a profit.

So, if WotC thinks it can INCREASE profit putting out new editions with revised content, they will do so. WotC does incorporate errata changes in newer printings of some of their material. And it is important to note that they do individual printings of their books.

So from a business standpoint, there is an additional expense in adding or changing content in a revised edition. So, can I charge more for a revised edition (to recoup the additional expense) than the current PHB? For a short time probably. BUT can I make the changes in the revised edition compelling enough to make those who already own a PHB to purchase the revised edition? Since a lot of the material we'd like to see in a revised PHB (or DMG) is already available elsewhere, and some of it for free, the answer is "probably not". They also don't want a revised PHB or DMG to scavenge sales of other titles. For example, there is a wealth of reules in Xanathers that could easily be moved into a revised DMG, but then that might might hurt sales of XGtE. They already charge a premium of $35-$55 per core rule book or expansion. So, from a business side of things, it seems that it is most profitable to simple print expansions (like Volo's, Xanathar's, and Mordenkeinen's) as those books are quite profitable and appeal to newbies as well as those that already own the PHB and DMG.

Additionally, WotC has heard time and again that the largest complaint is the expense of the core rule books. So instead of printing revised editions with additional content, they are going the other way. They are stripping content and producing cheaper rule sets with the beginner box, and the D&D Essentials kit and the Young Explorer's series of rulebooks, which they hope will eventually drive more sales to it's more expense and more profitable core rule books.

WotC also has to be careful that they don't look too much like they are trying to take advantage of their existing market, like TSR did when they release AD&D 2nd edition. Pathfinder is making a big push, and if WotC appears to be getting too greedy, they could lose marketshare to Pathfinder (who is already playing the "WotC is a greedy corperate b****rd" card in their marketing, usually very subtly, sometimes, not so much - and doing well with it.).

TL;DR -
So, I don't expect to see a revised PHB in the future, nor do I know what they could add to one for me to justify purchasing it since I already have a PHB.

[Reevh]

WotC was purchased by Hasbro some time ago. Hasbro is a publicly traded company with shareholders and a board of directors. As such it needs to make a profit. Therefore, it's subsidiaries, like WotC, also need to make a profit.

So, if WotC thinks it can INCREASE profit putting out new editions with revised content, they will do so. WotC does incorporate errata changes in newer printings of some of their material. And it is important to note that they do individual printings of their books.

So from a business standpoint, there is an additional expense in adding or changing content in a revised edition. So, can I charge more for a revised edition (to recoup the additional expense) than the current PHB? For a short time probably. BUT can I make the changes in the revised edition compelling enough to make those who already own a PHB to purchase the revised edition? Since a lot of the material we'd like to see in a revised PHB (or DMG) is already available elsewhere, and some of it for free, the answer is "probably not". They also don't want a revised PHB or DMG to scavenge sales of other titles. For example, there is a wealth of reules in Xanathers that could easily be moved into a revised DMG, but then that might might hurt sales of XGtE. They already charge a premium of $35-$55 per core rule book or expansion. So, from a business side of things, it seems that it is most profitable to simple print expansions (like Volo's, Xanathar's, and Mordenkeinen's) as those books are quite profitable and appeal to newbies as well as those that already own the PHB and DMG.

Additionally, WotC has heard time and again that the largest complaint is the expense of the core rule books. So instead of printing revised editions with additional content, they are going the other way. They are stripping content and producing cheaper rule sets with the beginner box, and the D&D Essentials kit and the Young Explorer's series of rulebooks, which they hope will eventually drive more sales to it's more expense and more profitable core rule books.

WotC also has to be careful that they don't look too much like they are trying to take advantage of their existing market, like TSR did when they release AD&D 2nd edition. Pathfinder is making a big push, and if WotC appears to be getting too greedy, they could lose marketshare to Pathfinder (who is already playing the "WotC is a greedy corperate b****rd" card in their marketing, usually very subtly, sometimes, not so much - and doing well with it.).

TL;DR -
So, I don't expect to see a revised PHB in the future, nor do I know what they could add to one for me to justify purchasing it since I already have a PHB.

D&D is a tiny part of the total revenue of WotC, which is largely driven by MTG. I wouldn't expect the profit motive to be the primary driver of their decision making when it comes to this stuff.

[Bjarkmundur]

If a problem is big enough to affect your game, you'll find out about it eventually.

I want no more editions of DnD. 5e pretty much nailed it. What I especially love about it is a open and non-specific it is. It leaves SO much room for homebrewed content, which basically is "table accepted errata".

4e was not nearly as welcoming to 3rd party content. Seriously, creating cool stuff for 4e was a much different experience.

[Keravath]

If a problem is big enough to affect your game, you'll find out about it eventually.

I want no more editions of DnD. 5e pretty much nailed it. What I especially love about it is a open and non-specific it is. It leaves SO much room for homebrewed content, which basically is "table accepted errata".

4e was not nearly as welcoming to 3rd party content. Seriously, creating cool stuff for 4e was a much different experience.

I agree with this sentiment for the most part. So far, in my playing of 5e, it is the best version of the game yet and I don't think they should create a 5.5e or 6.0e simply to create a new version of the game. There are some adjustments to some classes that could be made, there are some clarifications (like the hiding/vision rules that could be cleaned up). However, these things could easily be added as optional variations in books like Xanathar's Guide to Everything. Overall, I find the core rules of 5e to be very satisfying from both mechanical and role play aspects. It captures the feel of the original AD&D (for me) while generally making things more uniform, accessible, and balanced.

For me 5e might use some tweaks here and there, but it doesn't need a re-write or revision of the order of 3.5e-> 4e or 4e->5e.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

More than anything, I just want to see more material come out for 5e. I think a book dedicated to new classes and subclasses (even including all official classes up to this point) would be awesome. It could be a simple tool for character creation and exploration all in one book so you don't have to flip back and forth between several. I books on similar topics would be great. Things like a book of magic items that goes beyond the DMG and even includes more pictures or a book with every playable race and new races (and new Halfling art) or a book all about magic and casting that contains rules the different classes, a complete spell compendium, and lore about the different types of magic and how they work. These would be smaller books than most (about 100-150 pgs) and would hopefully cost less at around $20-$25.

This is all just a pipe dream, and most people probably aren't interested in it as it's not necessary, but a guy can hope.


If a problem is big enough to affect your game, you'll find out about it eventually.

I want no more editions of DnD. 5e pretty much nailed it. What I especially love about it is a open and non-specific it is. It leaves SO much room for homebrewed content, which basically is "table accepted errata".

4e was not nearly as welcoming to 3rd party content. Seriously, creating cool stuff for 4e was a much different experience.

I agree with this in principle but maybe not in practice. Point being, I'd love it if this was the final edition of D&D...until someone tells me how several things could actually be way better. That's a tricky line to draw because you're right about 5e being really open to change and multiple ways of play. But at the same time I never want to close myself off to the idea of innovation and change that could make an even better edition.

[BloodOgre]

D&D is a tiny part of the total revenue of WotC, which is largely driven by MTG. I wouldn't expect the profit motive to be the primary driver of their decision making when it comes to this stuff.

I'm not saying profit is the primary motive. I'm saying it is the deciding factor.

[LordEntrails]

More than anything, I just want to see more material come out for 5e. I think a book dedicated to new classes and subclasses (even including all official classes up to this point) would be awesome. It could be a simple tool for character creation and exploration all in one book so you don't have to flip back and forth between several.
As I said before, if you want all classes, races, spells, magic items in one place, all you need to do is to buy into one of the digital platforms. This dead tree product would simple be a re-hash of what already exists and though I can see its value in some cases, it's not actually new/novel or brings anything of the sort to the table.

If I want to see all the character races/classes/etc for all the product I own, I just open up the "Race" list in FG and their they all are for me to pick from. Or if I want to see all of the spells or magic items, I just open that list and their they all are to search and link to.

I know, I know, you already own the books in dead tree and you don't want to buy them again in another format. (Yet you are willing to buy them again in the same format so you can have them in one place...). It takes a mind shift, but the digital platforms do what you want, and a ton more. Consider or reconsider where to buy your next D&D book, dead tree or digital.

[GreyBlack]

Or, they could release things they've changed in upcoming books.

So for example if they release, "The Beholder's Guide to the Underdark" - they could make notes in the book where they've made changes that are applied to the DMG, PHP and/or even monsters. Rather than doing PHP 5.5, DMG 5.5, etc etc.

That'd be great except for the Adventurer's League rules they have in place; you wouldn't be able to use the Revised Ranger for example if it's printed outside of the PHB. And given how much they want to push that game...

[ad_hoc]

WotC also has to be careful that they don't look too much like they are trying to take advantage of their existing market, like TSR did when they release AD&D 2nd edition. Pathfinder is making a big push, and if WotC appears to be getting too greedy, they could lose marketshare to Pathfinder (who is already playing the "WotC is a greedy corperate b****rd" card in their marketing, usually very subtly, sometimes, not so much - and doing well with it.).


Pathfinder is a blip. They, and every other RPG, are completely insignificant compared to D&D.

As for the topic, no they shouldn't. Changing the core books will kill the momentum they have going. Thankfully they won't as it would cost them a lot of money to do so.

The earliest I could see something big changing would be 2024.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

As I said before, if you want all classes, races, spells, magic items in one place, all you need to do is to buy into one of the digital platforms. This dead tree product would simple be a re-hash of what already exists and though I can see its value in some cases, it's not actually new/novel or brings anything of the sort to the table.

If I want to see all the character races/classes/etc for all the product I own, I just open up the "Race" list in FG and their they all are for me to pick from. Or if I want to see all of the spells or magic items, I just open that list and their they all are to search and link to.

I know, I know, you already own the books in dead tree and you don't want to buy them again in another format. (Yet you are willing to buy them again in the same format so you can have them in one place...). It takes a mind shift, but the digital platforms do what you want, and a ton more. Consider or reconsider where to buy your next D&D book, dead tree or digital.

I think you missed the point of the overarching idea behind the book. If I just wanted a condensed book with all current character material then I'd completely agree with you. And I'm actually not opposed to buying digital copies all that much. Sure, I'd like for my hardcopies to transfer over, but I understand why they don't. D&D Beyond is actually getting better and better, and if I played more often or could run a game more consistently I'd definitely consider buying in.

The point of what I was saying was that I'd like new material in general, and I thought of a few ideas that I'd be interested in. So for instance, a character creation book that includes the old classes but also introduces a substantial number of new classes 3-5 at least I'd say, would be interesting enough for me to buy. Especially if it focused some sections around role playing, creating a character with depth, etc. There was a 4e book called the Player's Strategy Guide that touches on this concept a little bit. So it would be one part class mechanics/character creation and one part role-playing tips (similar to some of the story-telling techniques in the DMG, but more for PCs).

[JakOfAllTirades]

I rather like their current business model using free errata in pdf downloads.