Of being evil and killing every giant we see

[MarkVIIIMarc]

During the last session in a campaign I am playing a character in the DM made a reference to "changing my PC's alignment". Not sure if it would really matter much even but the next day in the text chain I proposed another character who stole a spell book had actually commited an evil act more recently.

Possible Storm Kings Thunder spoilers ahead:

We are playing a published campaign where giants of all types seem like they're the bad guys. The conversation grew into how as a party we ambushed three hill giants we saw who were doing nothing more than talking about being hungry. The player who is playing a ranger who has giants for a favored enemy suggested we try to engage the next group of giants we see in conversation!

At first I was shocked. Then I wondered if every group of Romans and Persians who saw eachother broke into combat. Then I thought about how deadly combat is and how hostile groups probably avoided eachother or tried to intimidate their way out of combat unless one had overwhelming odds.

The giants in our campaign almost have a holy war going on and even in past campaigns we have rarely encountered a giant who did not want to kill us.

So darn. Are we all murder hobo's?

[Particle_Man]

To paraphrase a comic from the 1st ed AD&D Dungeon Masters' Guide:


"What do you mean we have to talk to this Lynx? The last monster we talked to ate half of our party!" :smallsmile:

Hill giants that want to kill you and probably eat you are ok to ambush. You have my permission.

[BarneyBent]

Eh. Treat them as you would humanoids. Hill Giants are like extra big Orcs or Ogres. Almost always evil, almost always OK to kill them, exception is if they are expressly friendly, non-violent or otherwise want nothing to do with you.

Fire and Frost Giants are more complicated. Though generally evil, there are good ones occasionally, and though their society is evil, individuals aren’t always guilty of evil acts that deserve death. Maybe treat like a Red Wizard of Thay? Killing one without provocation would arguably be evil, but if they’re on a rampage or otherwise hostile then go for it.

Storm and Cloud Giants, treat as you would any humanoid. They can be good or evil, whether it is just to kill them depends on their actions and the situation. Storm Giants in particular are usually good so if you find yourself on the opposing side to a Storm Giant, take a beat to think about why. Their alignment certainly isn’t as hard and fast as, for example, Metallic Dragons which essentially have no choice but to be good, there are definitely evil Storm Giants, but just something to consider.

Stone Giants are generally neutral but don’t like small folk, so you might come into conflict on that alone. Again, treat based on merit, but be cautious. They may come after you just for being you and it would be totally just to kill them in that situation.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Both them replies make me feel better. I think they recenter me in what our characters wouldnknow about the world. Its got to be the type of stuff adventurers talk about in taverns or around the campfire.

[GlenSmash!]

There are good giants in SKT, but it sounds like you haven't run into them yet.

If the DM is expecting you to parley with every group of hill giant's you see they are being unreasonable.

[Reevh]

I have a tendency to not automatically want to kill every creature I come across in D&D. Mostly I'll try to talk with them first unless I have reason to believe they're hostile. One of my other party members makes fun of me a bit for this, and our DM likes to use this tendency to create deliberately ambiguous situations and then hurt us.

But in a previous campaign, there were several situations where we attacked on sight only to find out later that we were hurting or killing good guys.

[tieren]

If the DM is expecting you to parley with every group of hill giant's you see they are being unreasonable.

My guess is the DM wants to get out some exposition from the giants before the fight breaks out.

[GlenSmash!]

My guess is the DM wants to get out some exposition from the giants before the fight breaks out.

I can only imagine the exposition with 3 hill giants. Probably something like the Hobbit and the 3 trolls.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I can only imagine the exposition with 3 hill giants. Probably something like the Hobbit and the 3 trolls.

It may be me. I can be a little intense picking out what bad guys see when my PC casts Phantasmal Force or Fear. My CN wood elf Bard also always tries to defend the underdog, fight thieves, catch murderersn so there is that for good but she's a bit vengeful and figures some bad guys just have it coming also which I imagine is the evil of being neutral and chaotic.

Three years previously game time (last year irl) she um, dismembered a few human supremacist who had kidnapped her sister and left the parts for inimidation effect.

So it may be my or my PC's reputation. "We" just haven't done anything against the law even this campaign so it surprised me in a session where our wizard stole a spell book which started a fight that could have caused massive death and destruction.

[Dessunri]

Having played through SKT recently (don't worry, I'll avoid any spoilers) I can totally relate to what you're going through. I will say there are occasions where the group of giants you meet are not going to outright kill you and you may be able to sneak past them or even talk with them. Honestly my party and I did a lot to avoid fighting them unless absolutely necessary. There was one night, however, where the Bard in the group (it's always the faffing bard, isn't it :elan:) said that we should help a group of Hill Giants being beaten up on by two Fire Giants. His thought train was that if we slay the Fire Giants and save the Hill Giants maybe they'd help us with some information we were looking to find. Well, we begin the process of killing the Fire Giants. Theeeeenn the Hill giants show their gratitude by squishing me, the Gnome Wizard, into almost-oblivion and attacking everyone else in the party. So we killed them too. It was a super fun night!

[GlenSmash!]

Having played through SKT recently (don't worry, I'll avoid any spoilers) I can totally relate to what you're going through. I will say there are occasions where the group of giants you meet are not going to outright kill you and you may be able to sneak past them or even talk with them. Honestly my party and I did a lot to avoid fighting them unless absolutely necessary. There was one night, however, where the Bard in the group (it's always the faffing bard, isn't it :elan:) said that we should help a group of Hill Giants being beaten up on by two Fire Giants. His thought train was that if we slay the Fire Giants and save the Hill Giants maybe they'd help us with some information we were looking to find. Well, we begin the process of killing the Fire Giants. Theeeeenn the Hill giants show their gratitude by squishing me, the Gnome Wizard, into almost-oblivion and attacking everyone else in the party. So we killed them too. It was a super fun night!

The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.

[vexedart]

Hill giants are eternally cursed with hunger, and humanoids are a treat to them which they devour on whim. They bully other creatures into feeding them when convenient. And Hill giants being in a group is strange, because they do not share food with others of their kind. Sharing is what weak things do because they can’t take it for themselves, is what a hill giant would think 100%. Might makes right.

Find more about them in the MM page 152

Either way, killing a creature that is cursed to devour everything seems like you’re doing the world a favor. Specially in a faerun setting. Where these giants are nothing more than bullies, murderers, and gluttons.

I’d suggest reading more on the chief god of hill giants, Grolantor. These are creatures that are stupid first, and evil second, isn’t much room left for them to pick a third.

[Dessunri]

The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.

Facts. It was a decent idea on paper, but definitely didn't pan out the way he/we expected. I do wonder if we had helped the fire giants if it would have been different. They're generally more intelligent than hill giants.

[GlenSmash!]

Facts. It was a decent idea on paper, but definitely didn't pan out the way he/we expected. I do wonder if we had helped the fire giants if it would have been different. They're generally more intelligent than hill giants.

It's possible. Most Fire Giants I've run into in games are jerks. But they might have been amused by the help, or might be amused by killing you for sport.

[Lunali]

My guess is the DM wants to get out some exposition from the giants before the fight breaks out.

Standing policy, shoot anyone that attacks or tries to monologue, anyone else, parley.

[Tanarii]

Then I thought about how deadly combat is and how hostile groups probably avoided eachother or tried to intimidate their way out of combat unless one had overwhelming odds.
That's the problem right there. Combat hasn't been deadly since 3e, and even then it was only for the first few levels. In 5e it's maybe at level 1, possibly even two or three if you're a caster and kept a 10 con. Even then the DM pretty much has to have enemies focus fire you after you go down to kill you. (Perfectly acceptable in my book, anethema to some.)

This isn't the old days when you talked, ran, snuck past, and did just about everything except fight. And when you could run into 30-300 orcs due to a wilderness random encounter table.

Edit: Full disclosure, we did what every other group of ten year olds (and some adults) did back then: maxed hit points for PCs, had tons of fights, and cheated blatantly when a die roll might have killed us.

[Sigreid]

IMO it is not illogical for a group that has been consistently fighting giants to assume giants are going to fight them and try to get the jump on them. And at least when I'm running them, before a group of hill giants are going to be likely to talk to you; you would have to prove to them that you are strong enough to be respected. So I'd say you need to slap them around and convince them that you can kill them if you want to. Then they may talk/take you to their leader/whatever.

[Telok]

It's a D&D adventure. Almost every single thing you meet will eventually, intentionally or unintentionally, through malice or ignorance, put you in mortal danger. Add in that you are almost always immedately rewarded with xp, loot, or both when you kill something and the message is clear...

Kill everything.

Kill, loot, level up, rinse, repeat.

[GlenSmash!]

That's the problem right there. Combat hasn't been deadly since 3e, and even then it was only for the first few levels. In 5e it's maybe at level 1, possibly even two or three if you're a caster and kept a 10 con. Even then the DM pretty much has to have enemies focus fire you after you go down to kill you. (Perfectly acceptable in my book, anethema to some.)

This isn't the old days when you talked, ran, snuck past, and did just about everything except fight. And when you could run into 30-300 orcs due to a wilderness random encounter table.

Edit: Full disclosure, we did what every other group of ten year olds (and some adults) did back then: maxed hit points for PCs, had tons of fights, and cheated blatantly when a die roll might have killed us.

While maybe not deadly, I've found the encounters with multiple Giants in SKT to be quite challenging. A fire giant could hit my character with a natural 4. 2 in the same combat were really tough. And the damage was really quite a lot for Tier 1.

We're level 6 now so we'll see if it gets any easier, but it hasn't been a walk in the park.

[KorvinStarmast]

Hill Giants rampaging around the country side is part of why the adventurers have been hired to solve that problem. In SKT, it is blatantly obvious that the Hill Giants are wreaking havoc with humanoids all over that general area. If the DM is playing "gotcha" in SKT with Hill Giants, I have nothing to offer you,

But, there are other giants who you may wish to parley with.

That said, if three Hill Giants are coming, it would seem very much in character to kill two and "knock out" the last one. (See Rules of using melee attacks to knock out rather than kill various opponents).

Then, when he eventually wakes up, have a discussion with him from a position of strength.