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DiscipleofBob
2007-10-12, 12:19 AM
Okay, I need ideas for a butler who basically is, as far as the level 9 party knows, unkillable. The kind of butler who smoothly and gracefully shrugs off all your attacks and then politely shows you the door with considerable force.

Any ideas stat or class wise with this kind of thing?

Human Paragon 3
2007-10-12, 12:22 AM
He could be a programmed illusion, or have some form of stone skin.

Irreverent Fool
2007-10-12, 12:24 AM
Okay, I need ideas for a butler who basically is, as far as the level 9 party knows, unkillable. The kind of butler who smoothly and gracefully shrugs off all your attacks and then politely shows you the door with considerable force.

Any ideas stat or class wise with this kind of thing?

I think Pun-Pun qualifies...

Seriously, though... If you really want to do that it could be anything change its form. Maybe give us some more restrictions?

Or, a level 20 wizard.

Guy_Whozevl
2007-10-12, 12:25 AM
If you can find the stats for a sword cane (forgot which book), that would be thematically appropriate. Giving him levels in the Knight class (PHB2) might be appropriate if you glamer his armor to look like a tux or something.

Artemician
2007-10-12, 12:28 AM
If he's going to be unkillable, then why bother coming up with statistics at all? Just prepare some stock descriptions when the party tries to kill him, and go to town.

Work out how the Butler doesn't die, sure. But there's no need to stat it out.

Starsinger
2007-10-12, 12:43 AM
Okay, I need ideas for a butler who basically is, as far as the level 9 party knows, unkillable. The kind of butler who smoothly and gracefully shrugs off all your attacks and then politely shows you the door with considerable force.

Any ideas stat or class wise with this kind of thing?

Make him a lich that can't be destroyed without breaking his phylactery?

Firefingers
2007-10-12, 01:02 AM
Immunity to Nonmagical weapons as an EX ability
Permanent antimagic field with a radius of 2cm from his skin on him
Globe of invunerability outside the AM field

Immune to all weapons and level 5 or less spells will handle your standard party of adventurers quite handily

Collin152
2007-10-12, 01:03 AM
Ghost. Just make him a ghost.
not a standard ghost, no, a Ghostwalk ghost. Given that the other party members aren't ghostwalk characters, most of the conventionel means of dealing with him are rendered inaccesible, and they might not even know he's a ghost.

Nebo_
2007-10-12, 01:09 AM
I would feel cheated if my DM just gave random abilities to an NPC to make him invincible. Doing it within the rules seems like a much better way to do it.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-10-12, 01:10 AM
Just maximise the ACs, that's not too hard. High Dex, some Tumble ranks for the extra Dodge, Ring of Protection, Amulet of Natural Armor, etc.

I once had a PC under level 10 with an AC in the late 30s. I still have an NPC Pixie with an AC in the 50s, though she's Epic level and hurls 50 small Wounding Longswords with Telekinesis :smallsmile:

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-12, 01:17 AM
A martial adept character would be funny because with certain Setting Sun powers, you could have him literally throw the characters out the door (like in the movies).

But yes, for maximum power, a wizard. Naturally.

Or for maximum ability to literally take the hit, shrug it off indifferently, and toss them out ... an elan psion.

Icewalker
2007-10-12, 01:21 AM
Well homebrewing magic items is always the best choice for this, I'd say.

Tuxedo of the Eternal Servant
DR what, 30? Pick it based off the party's best melee damage dealer.
SR...whatever it takes so that they cannot penetrate it with spells. SR doesn't involve a roll, right?
Eternal youth, so it could be later revealed he has served the house for like 15 generations :smallbiggrin:

Lyinginbedmon
2007-10-12, 01:36 AM
SR does involve a roll, a caster level check to be precise

Machete
2007-10-12, 01:41 AM
Unseen Servant Living Spell wearing a tux Or some sort of Spelltouched-Unseen Servant Person who lives on as a visible force effect.


Or maybe go Catfolk. Fighter 2 and Expert 2 base classes and take Concentration ranks and throw in a Headband of Concious Effort. Vest of Resistance +1.
Levels in the Survivalist Prestige Class.
The Endurance and Diehard Feats, and Improved Natural Armor Feat.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-10-12, 01:49 AM
Name him Walter. If they know anything, they'll run without even trying to fight.

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-12, 01:54 AM
Name him Walter. If they know anything, they'll run without even trying to fight.

Or Alfred.

If the most powerful class in D&D is the wizard, and the most powerful wizard is the "Batman" build ...

What do you suppose that makes the actual Batman, in D&D?

Behold_the_Void
2007-10-12, 01:54 AM
For my silly Disgaea campaign, one of the PCs (a level-drained, cursed, and very angry Paladin of Slaughter named Kelzoth) had Jeeves, his generic kung-fu butler (he had a monocle OVER his eyepatch!). I made him a level 17-ish monk. Your mileage may vary, but just making him much higher level than they are with good enough saves that they aren't going to take him down and it should turn the trick. The fun thing about the monk is that they can do nonlethal damage and provide entertaining amounts of newbie railroading (Jeeves! Kick him in the face!).

SoD
2007-10-12, 04:25 AM
No, no, no. Not Alfred or Walter. Or Jeeves. You'd want to be calling him Willikins.

bugsysservant
2007-10-12, 04:36 AM
How about super high AC - say 60 and a ring of spell turning? Or just make him an intelligent stone Golem. Named Mr. Pump.

AtomicKitKat
2007-10-12, 04:40 AM
Your mileage may vary, but just making him much higher level than they are with good enough saves that they aren't going to take him down and it should turn the trick.

So he was in the world's oldest profession then?:smallbiggrin:

That being said, Master of the Unseen Hand? Initiate of the 7-fold cheese would also work as a "Get out, and stay out!" servant.

Cogwheel
2007-10-12, 04:55 AM
Drumknott. Call him Drumknott. Anyone who's read diskworld will be left running for their lives:smallbiggrin:

Riffington
2007-10-12, 04:56 AM
I would feel cheated if my DM just gave random abilities to an NPC to make him invincible. Doing it within the rules seems like a much better way to do it.

Do you mean that you like to play with the House Rule "no rule 0"?
If he gives an ability to an NPC, and he's the DM, then the rules are that this NPC has that ability.

Ecalsneerg
2007-10-12, 05:18 AM
Drumknott. Call him Drumknott. Anyone who's read diskworld will be left running for their lives:smallbiggrin:

Or asking why the step down from trusted servant of a tyrant to a butler?

I agree with calling him Willikins though.

raygungothic
2007-10-12, 06:05 AM
It's easy. NPC Class: Butler has the class feature "Unflappable": +2/level to AC, saves, dodges and all other stats and rolls against any circumstances which prevent them doing their duty. An Epic level butler isn't inherently terrifyingly hard, just terrifyingly good at his job. And if his job at present involves politely but firmly shepherding the PCs to the door... they won't hit him, he won't even look like he's dodging, his expression will remain neutral.

He won't resort to violence though. Totally out of role, and he's not that great at it. He might have some sort of will-dominating ability instead.

SoD
2007-10-12, 06:11 AM
I dunno about that...do you know Willikins?

That is a butler I would be scared of. Especially armed with a meat knife. Willikins is the sort of name to invoke fear into anyone.

Greyen
2007-10-12, 06:19 AM
I believe the IKEA Tarrasque might be what you are looking for.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20160

Just give it a hat of disguise and a few ranks of disguise and you are good to go.

raygungothic
2007-10-12, 06:38 AM
SoD: True, Willikins is fairly scary. I think combat powers are optional rather than compulsory in the Butler class though.

Greyen: What on earth is an IKEA Tarrasque? A mass-produced, flat-pack, chipboard copy of a unique monster which is almost impossible to put together but can be destroyed in seconds by anyone with an Allen key?

As an aside: I was in a Call of Cthulhu adventure once where the butler was really Nyarlathotep. Nothing suggested in this campaign is quite as worrying.

Drider
2007-10-12, 09:36 AM
I believe the IKEA Tarrasque might be what you are looking for.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20160

Just give it a hat of disguise and a few ranks of disguise and you are good to go.

Win, best idea in this thread.

Collin152
2007-10-12, 12:54 PM
Why, everybody knows the name should be Wheatherby.

Raolin_Fenix
2007-10-12, 01:02 PM
It's easy. NPC Class: Butler has the class feature "Unflappable": +2/level to AC, saves, dodges and all other stats and rolls against any circumstances which prevent them doing their duty. An Epic level butler isn't inherently terrifyingly hard, just terrifyingly good at his job. And if his job at present involves politely but firmly shepherding the PCs to the door... they won't hit him, he won't even look like he's dodging, his expression will remain neutral.

He won't resort to violence though. Totally out of role, and he's not that great at it. He might have some sort of will-dominating ability instead.

That's an actual NPC class? I should look that up.

That being said, the only thing you'll really want to do apart from en-massive-ify his AC is to boost his Bull Rush as much as physically possible. I think that's about as good as it gets for "show them the door."

Zim
2007-10-12, 01:51 PM
Make him a golem. Better yet, an awakened golem. Total spell immunity, crazy DR, high AC, HP galore and unflaggingly polite. Give the PC's a hint that his CR is Waaaaay above them and trust to their common sense (hah!) to avoid conflict.

Either that or the permanent illusion thing.

TheSteelRat
2007-10-12, 02:18 PM
Wouldn't a high enough Bard be able to basically convince the characters to leave? Just give him ridiculous save DC due to item x / feat y / spell z. For more physically tough character, go with one of the above options and make it say, an Awakened Human-looking Tuxedo-Clad Clay Golem with Bard Levels. For the Perform, just have it be "Oratory." He politely tells you a story about a similar situation as he convinces you through Fascinate and Suggestion to walk through the door outside. I know the Bard description specifically lists types of the Perform skill and Oratory isn't on it, but it's close enough for your purposes.

Draz74
2007-10-12, 02:22 PM
Or Alfred.

If the most powerful class in D&D is the wizard, and the most powerful wizard is the "Batman" build ...

What do you suppose that makes the actual Batman, in D&D?

His good NPC friend, Lucius Fox, the 15th-level Artificer, who spends all his time crafting overpowered magic items for Batman. :smalltongue:

BardicDuelist
2007-10-12, 02:36 PM
For the Butler:
I would go with Combat Expertise to boost your AC, and Spellfire Wielder form FRCS to make spells not bother you. After that, I would make him a monk (because evasion helps with non-targeted spells, wis synergises with profession skills). Now he isn't omnipotent, but is near-unkilliable, although not very offensive. Ranks in Tumble will bost AC even further. Weapon Finesse will help reduce MAD.

I would go Wis, Con, Dex, Cha, Int, Str as far as stat order is concerned. Stunning Fist and high unarmed damage will help make him better at offense.

I only recomend this as an NPC. As PCs, monks are useless.

Alternativly, for a smart butler, you could do some stuff with Factotum that I will post later, when I have more time.

tainsouvra
2007-10-12, 03:21 PM
Do you mean that you like to play with the House Rule "no rule 0"?
If he gives an ability to an NPC, and he's the DM, then the rules are that this NPC has that ability. "Legal" and "not stupid and cheesy" are not the same thing.

Riffington
2007-10-12, 04:08 PM
What is more stupid and cheesy?
For a DM who wants an NPC to have an ability to just give it to him, or to give him prestige classes and templates that don't fit his concept in order to give it to him?

Example: the butler as described is cool. Naming him Willikins: cool. Having to make him a "Lernean Multi-Headed Half Clay Golem with a hat of disguise"... that is cheesy.

Anxe
2007-10-12, 04:28 PM
I made the butler for my players a Protean Scourge when they got one. That campaign ended before I did anything with him though.

Eldritch_Ent
2007-10-12, 04:33 PM
What is more stupid and cheesy?
For a DM who wants an NPC to have an ability to just give it to him, or to give him prestige classes and templates that don't fit his concept in order to give it to him?

Definitely just saying "The Butler is invincible. Don't even try."

Giving him crazy templates and legal abilities is a lot more acceptable because it works within the same rules the player is bound to, thus at least giving them a chance. (The Butler is a stone golem? Well, I did prepare stone to mud today...) But if you just say the Butler does things without even rolling dice, that's... Well, you might as well say rocks fall and everyone dies. It breaks player confidence, breaks versimilitude, and just isn't fun... Even if it's railroading either way, I'd rather be railroaded by a DC 20 encounter that I can say "Okay, yeah, that's prismatic sphere" rather than a DC DM encounter who just shrugs everything off.


Rant aside, I agree having him be a Stone Golem could be quite cool. Give him a purple moustache for effect. :smallbiggrin: You could also make him an Area-control fighter, using a long string of folded napkins or something as an "Improvised Spiked Chain". In fact, making him an Improvised Weapons Master (Smacking the party down with candelabras and flatware) could be quite interesting, especially if the Butler apologizes to his master and says he'll repair the items to pristine condition later.

Riffington
2007-10-12, 04:47 PM
Definitely just saying "The Butler is invincible. Don't even try."

I never said you should give him the power "invincible". But if you want to give him a high AC or some DR, do you need to give him a class or template to go with it?

Also, if I shoot arrows at a gazebo, do you need some stats for it, or can you just tell me that it doesn't do anything - it's a gazebo? It's a little different than "rocks fall and everyone dies" because the goal isn't to kill them, it's to move them towards fun.

Wraithy
2007-10-12, 04:56 PM
I've allways enjoyed the name Higgins for a butler.
I agree with those who say "don't stat him out", whenever they roll for attack or cast a spell at him, just say it hits. then of course he gets back up again unscathed, streightenes up his suit, and exclaims:
"excellent sir, you are truely a man of great prowess, not to interrupt you sir, but a Lord Snootingdon the Third awaits in the music room, shall I prepare the crumpets?"

Rogue 7
2007-10-12, 05:13 PM
Or Alfred.

If the most powerful class in D&D is the wizard, and the most powerful wizard is the "Batman" build ...

What do you suppose that makes the actual Batman, in D&D?

Name him Domovoi. Cheers for the reference.

mostlyharmful
2007-10-12, 05:25 PM
There's a level nine spell that permenantly binds an elder elemental to a specific location, you can kill the elemental allllll you want and it'll just come back, it costs 1000gp to cast and it can only be gotten rid of by destroying the site it's bond to. Just homebrew a new version that gives a humanoid with applicable skills instead of a walking bonfire. You get the wonderful image of them coming back after toasting the butler to be met by the same guy asking to take their coats without a blink. better still if they can take over the place they can try to work out how the hell Walter there keeps coming back

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-12, 05:48 PM
I still like the idea of the butler being something like a high-level swordsage, though, with those Setting Sun throw abilities. Literally, you could have him just throw the PCs bodily out, and if he's way over them in level, they're probably not going to fare that well if they try to fight.

The only problem, of course, is that at this point, the PCs at least have some tiny chance of doing something to him. But ... unless you like railroading, shouldn't games always be like that?

tainsouvra
2007-10-12, 05:54 PM
The only problem, of course, is that at this point, the PCs at least have some tiny chance of doing something to him. But ... unless you like railroading, shouldn't games always be like that? The original post did sound like it was looking for a little railroading, though.

The Glyphstone
2007-10-12, 07:19 PM
There's a level nine spell that permenantly binds an elder elemental to a specific location, you can kill the elemental allllll you want and it'll just come back, it costs 1000gp to cast and it can only be gotten rid of by destroying the site it's bond to. Just homebrew a new version that gives a humanoid with applicable skills instead of a walking bonfire. You get the wonderful image of them coming back after toasting the butler to be met by the same guy asking to take their coats without a blink. better still if they can take over the place they can try to work out how the hell Walter there keeps coming back

This is a perfectly blended fusion of win and awesome.

Roderick_BR
2007-10-12, 08:48 PM
Immunity to Nonmagical weapons as an EX ability
(...)
For that, you could use a Starmantle Cloak frim Book of Exalted Deeds. Seriously, that spell, and the magic itens, are horribly broken.

martyboy74
2007-10-12, 09:48 PM
Name him Domovoi. Cheers for the reference.

I doubt that they're fighting teenage irish masterminds.


Introduce a spell that summons a humanoid every time that he is killed for x rounds, limited to a certain area. Hell, you could even let the players get it, as long as they were done with the butler by that point.

Deth Muncher
2007-10-12, 11:43 PM
I doubt that they're fighting teenage irish masterminds.


Introduce a spell that summons a humanoid every time that he is killed for x rounds, limited to a certain area. Hell, you could even let the players get it, as long as they were done with the butler by that point.

Sweet! Someone else gets that reference...

Oh, right, back on topic. Personally? I'd look up some of the butler PrC's floating around, and adapt them to fit your needs.

Douglas
2007-10-13, 12:08 AM
I like the high level Swordsage focused on Setting Sun idea. Make it the unarmed variant, take a whole bunch of counters - especially the "your attack hits someone else or yourself" ones - and Stance of Alacrity, and the various throw maneuvers. Get his attack bonus high enough and every time someone attacks him he can calmly step aside and comment dryly as the strike swishes by and hits another party member instead. A ring of Spell Turning takes care of targeted spells, and evasion plus a high reflex save negates most AoE spells. Just make sure he has a few reroll abilities available in case of a natural 1.

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-13, 12:22 AM
For added lulz, also give him Elusive Target. Now he's not only redirecting their attacks using counters, but if they flank him and attack, one attack is automatically redirected. Hilarity ensues as the whole party literally trips and stumbles all over its collective self.

The invincible bulter who simply can't be harmed at all will work, purely functionally. The akidoish unarmed master who makes them all trip over each other every time they attack and flings them casually outside will be remembered.

Sidestep Charge would also be good. Bonus to avoid a charge (the best fighter tactic), negate the Power Attack through Elusive Target, and on a miss, use a throw manuever to send the fighter flying out the door. Positively a classic.

CthulhuM
2007-10-13, 12:47 AM
Pah, just make him a level 2 human expert with the Paragon template.

With a base dex of 10 (25 after the template is added), he'll have +7 Dex, +12 Insight, +12 Luck and +5 Natural bonuses to AC, for a total of AC 46. He'll also have 50 hit points, DR 20/epic, fast healing 20, SR 29, resistance 10 versus fire and cold, and saves in the upper teens.

He can also seem to always be wherever he is needed, due to a move of 90 and high spot/listen checks, and can throw the PCs out on their asses easily with his +25 bonus on all attack rolls (not to mention 25 strength).

raygungothic
2007-10-13, 01:16 PM
Raolin: Butler NPC class: erm, not as far as I know. I was making that up. I know NPC classes are meant to be really broad, but sometimes I find it helpful to imagine NPC classes as really narrow specialist classes and invent new ones suitable for roles. It's not necessary, just a tool for thinking about how things might work (or, in this case, a less-than-serious declaration that I think the easiest way for the DM to handle things is to declare the butler very, very good at his job - which necessarily involves being unreasonably good at staying calm and in control. An old group of mine had a joke about "don't bother, he has Buttle 98%" which this thread brought to mind...)