A rare occasion to get everything one can want

[Trandir]

Well my weak ass rogue survived his first quest (by doing absolutely nothing while hiding in a corner) got 2 levels and since he was introduced at the end of a chapter of this campaign now can do whatever he wants.


The DM gave us 500k gp each and a 10 years break from adventuring. I had do spend 90k for some living expenses (a house and some gold to eat even if he do not get a job).

In this time we will get involved in more political oriented quests that will not threaten our lives and so the exp rewards will be far lower that the regular adventuring ones.

Now as the DM sayed we can train in various things (the sorcerer applyed to the local university to get 1 rank in 5 different knowledge per year for a total of 50 ranks over the course of the vacation) so I could get some more free skill ranks that the rogue always need.

Sidenote: this DM ruled that every 1st level you take in any class you get 4 times the skill ranks and by multiclassing a little I got 13-16 ranks in many skills
Also here a take 10 means a +10 untyped bonus to the skill check but it requires a couple of minutes do do it but skill mastery allow to do it without spending the extra time and even in combat, by taking 10 levels in rogue and 1 in exemplar I got 8 skill mastery
Skill ranks and stats

Base stats with al the bonus I have from my current magic items (nothing):
Str 8 Dex 22 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 12 Cha 12

Ranks and SM on the skills with skill's mastery

Bluff 5
Concentration 13 SM
Diplomacy 6
Disable device 14
Hide 16 SM
Jump 5
Knowledge (arcana) 1
Knowledge (local) 1
Knowledge (religion) 1
Knowledge (the planes) 1
Listen 16
Move silently 16
Open lock 14
Perform (dance) 5
Search 16
Sleight of hand 16 SM
Spot 16 SM
Tumble 14 SM
Use magic device 14 SM
Autohypnosis 4 SM
Iaijutsu focus 16 SM







We also got a contat with a self proclaimed archmage, but still really high level caster, and he accepted to craft me anything I want (so anything that appears in the table "Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values" DMG p285 or in any manual, npc vesion of craft X line i presume) for 2 favors that I will have to do when he will require and the money to cover only the materials, not the exp, necessary to complete the items.


Well from having the starting equipment to possibly 800k gp worth of magic items this is a rare opportunity what would the playground reccomend for a mostly skill monkey focused rogue build?

[pabelfly]

Could your rogue run some heists? Like, would it fit your character's alignment and skill set?

[Trandir]

Could your rogue run some heists? Like, would it fit your character's alignment and skill set?

Caotic neutral so yes he would do something like that. And since my rogue is a skill monkey he has pretty good: hide, move silently, open lock, disable device and UMD so I should be able to actually do it. Also since that wizard will craft anything I can just wait some years before actually begin to steal and meanwhile get some more ranks and gather info on who is the best target.

But it might screw things up. Probably performing in the streets using (sleight of hand instead of perform, +33 and +6 bonus respectively) might get better opportunities if he follows the PHB table of perform outcomes.

[daremetoidareyo]

Putch in with group and get a stronghold

[Trandir]

Putch in with group and get a stronghold

I am the poor one and the other 3 members each got already a mansion in the countryside with 50000 m^2 of field to do whatever they want (one got a quite impressive collection of plants, one got some sort of zoo with only snakes and is running some druidic cult of a snake god with human sacrifice and the last one got a weapon factory). Also we are in a safe kingdom so there is no actual need of a fortified place. And last and most important I already got an apartment in town for 30k gp

[pabelfly]

Caotic neutral so yes he would do something like that. And since my rogue is a skill monkey he has pretty good: hide, move silently, open lock, disable device and UMD so I should be able to actually do it. Also since that wizard will craft anything I can just wait some years before actually begin to steal and meanwhile get some more ranks and gather info on who is the best target.

But it might screw things up. Probably performing in the streets using (sleight of hand instead of perform, +33 and +6 bonus respectively) might get better opportunities if he follows the PHB table of perform outcomes.

Mind listing your skills and how good you are at them?

[Trandir]

Mind listing your skills and how good you are at them?
Ok i have put those in the OP

[pabelfly]

Ok i have put those in the OP

Having a look at your skill list... if performing heists is out of the question, what about assassinations? Especially of bad people? Fits right into your character's wheelhouse of chaotic neuteral, and could be worth good money and items for your character. You could also see about doing this work for an important NPC, like a lord or king, to gain favour with them.

I'd also think about getting custom items to improve your main skill checks, since you're so reliant on skill checks. Cost is (bonus)^2 x 100, so a +10 is 10,000 gold and a +20 is 40,000 gold.

[Trandir]

Having a look at your skill list... if performing heists is out of the question, what about assassinations? Especially of bad people? Fits right into your character's wheelhouse of chaotic neuteral, and could be worth good money and items for your character. You could also see about doing this work for an important NPC, like a lord or king, to gain favour with them.

I'd also think about getting custom items to improve your main skill checks, since you're so reliant on skill checks. Cost is (bonus)^2 x 100, so a +10 is 10,000 gold and a +20 is 40,000 gold.
About assassinations I'd like to live.
There is a thieves guild an adventurers guild and the guild of assassins. And none of them would allow someone without permission to "steal their job" (the thieves one is quite open and we got some contacts while there is an assassin that was set loose on our tails and now is waiting for a good opportunity to end his contract).

For the magic items since I rely so much on checks I have to use the 1.5×item price to add it to another item so that I can have some body slot free for other items. So far one of the items I'd like to commision is a celestial armor weightless with +10 on iaijutsu focus, concentration, disable device, open lock, tumble, listen, search, sleight of hand, spot and +15 on hide and move silently. Even with a budget of 400k I can't get +20 on all of them (open lock and disable device woud reach a base bonus higher than the maximum DC for locks and traps with a simple +10 bonus but 9 more skills remain). I'd like also a manual of quickness of action +5, gloves of dexterity +7 and a amulet of healt +6 to get more decent defences, skill bonus and HP. Maybe I could get to +20 hide, concentration and iaijutsu focus to +15 since they will probably be the most important to keep high

[daremetoidareyo]

You need a hub for your spy network

[RNightstalker]

What is your character class breakdown/progression so far?

[Trandir]

You need a hub for your spy network

Before I'd beed a sky network


What is your character class breakdown/progression so far?

It suck from any prospective but here it is:
Rogue 10 with the ACF: spell sense, spell deflection and distruptive attack
Shadowdancer 2
Exemplar 1
And the plan is to take a dip in warblade to get the devensive maneuvers that allow a concentration check in place of a ST.
Then a dip in the NPC class expertform UA to get a bonus feat and some skill points in some non class skill.
This leaves 5 levels open to complete the skillmonkey setup or begin to improve the combat viablility of this thing

[pabelfly]

About assassinations I'd like to live.
There is a thieves guild an adventurers guild and the guild of assassins. And none of them would allow someone without permission doing this kind of things (the thieves one is quite open and we got some contacts while there is an assassin that was set loose on our tails and now is waiting for a good opportunity to end his contract).

Why not see if you can join the Assassin's guild then? Would be a good story excuse to have the contract on you removed.

[Trandir]

Why not see if you can join the Assassin's guild then? Would be a good story excuse to have the contract on you removed.

Emmm I would be killed on sight by that assassin that's why

[OGDojo]

Sidenote: this DM ruled that every 1st level you take in any class you get 4 times the skill ranks and by multiclassing a little I got 13-16 ranks in many skills
Also here a take 10 means a +10 untyped bonus to the skill check but it requires a couple of minutes do do it but skill mastery allow to do it without spending the extra time and even in combat, by taking 10 levels in rogue and 1 in exemplar I got 8 skill mastery
Skill ranks and stats

Base stats with al the bonus I have from my current magic items (nothing):
Str 8 Dex 22 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 12 Cha 12

Ranks and SM on the skills with skill's mastery

Bluff 5
Concentration 13 SM
Diplomacy 6
Disable device 14
Hide 16 SM
Jump 5
Knowledge (arcana) 1
Knowledge (local) 1
Knowledge (religion) 1
Knowledge (the planes) 1
Listen 16
Move silently 16
Open lock 14
Perform (dance) 5
Search 16
Sleight of hand 16 SM
Spot 16 SM
Tumble 14 SM
Use magic device 14 SM
Autohypnosis 4 SM
Iaijutsu focus 16 SM







Well from having the starting equipment to possibly 800k gp worth of magic items this is a rare opportunity what would the playground reccomend for a mostly skill monkey focused rogue build?

i would suggest multiclassing into "Factotum" From Dungeonscape. it gets all skills as class skills and with the skill point boost you can become a swiss army knife of a character that can perform several skill decently if no one else in the party needs it, and if your able to get feats you should also take the "Font of inspiration" Feat from the wizards of the coast website for the factotum that gives him more inspiration points so he can perform those skills better than he otherwise would. i think its a good secondary class for rogue since the rogue gets so many skill ranks anyways so the factotums skills are just a bonus. and since this new campaign is more diplomacy and skill based it would serve you better to multiclass into something that can add to the skills known

[Trandir]

i would suggest multiclassing into "Factotum" From Dungeonscape. it gets all skills as class skills and with the skill point boost you can become a swiss army knife of a character that can perform several skill decently if no one else in the party needs it, and if your able to get feats you should also take the "Font of inspiration" Feat from the wizards of the coast website for the factotum that gives him more inspiration points so he can perform those skills better than he otherwise would. i think its a good secondary class for rogue since the rogue gets so many skill ranks anyways so the factotums skills are just a bonus. and since this new campaign is more diplomacy and skill based it would serve you better to multiclass into something that can add to the skills known

So far I have 10 levels in rogue with early ACF and 1 Shadowdancer.
With the 2 bonus levels I was thinking to take the second level in Shadowdancer to get back everything that was traded away and a level in exemplar to get 3 more Skill Mastery and a wopping 40 skill ranks in all skills.
From that my plan was to take a single level in warblade and i get from it:

Moment of perfect mind and Mind over body, which are great since it is easy to get +40 bonus to concentration, 10 from custom item, 2 from "masterwork tool", 1 from luckstone, 5 from constitution, 13 ranks and 10 from houserule vesion of Skill Mastery;
white raven tactics to cheese some more rounds for the others that can actually do something in combat;
12 hp;
1 BAB;
Proficiency with almost everything;
And still 24 skill ranks to put in concentration, diplomacy, and the rest in skills with low ranks that now are all class skills thanks to that level in exemplar.


And after that a level in one of the generic classes in UA. This is a little sad but shadowdancer required some serius feat invesments in some of the worst feats in the book and combat reflexes that I will probably never use. Still I get out of this a lot of skill ranks a feat or generic class feature and I can even choose where to put the +2 in the ST. But factotum is probably better but for how many levels?

Multiclassing martial/skillmonkey classes until lv 20 and maybe even further is probably the best course of action.

[OGDojo]

So far I have 10 levels in rogue with early ACF and 1 Shadowdancer.
With the 2 bonus levels I was thinking to take the second level in Shadowdancer to get back everything that was traded away and a level in exemplar to get 3 more Skill Mastery and a wopping 40 skill ranks in all skills.
From that my plan was to take a single level in warblade and i get from it:

Moment of perfect mind and Mind over body, which are great since it is easy to get +40 bonus to concentration, 10 from custom item, 2 from "masterwork tool", 1 from luckstone, 5 from constitution, 13 ranks and 10 from houserule vesion of Skill Mastery;
white raven tactics to cheese some more rounds for the others that can actually do something in combat;
12 hp;
1 BAB;
Proficiency with almost everything;
And still 24 skill ranks to put in concentration, diplomacy, and the rest in skills with low ranks that now are all class skills thanks to that level in exemplar.


And after that a level in one of the generic classes in UA. This is a little sad but shadowdancer required some serius feat invesments in some of the worst feats in the book and combat reflexes that I will probably never use. Still I get out of this a lot of skill ranks a feat or generic class feature and I can even choose where to put the +2 in the ST. But factotum is probably better but for how many levels?

Multiclassing martial/skillmonkey classes until lv 20 and maybe even further is probably the best course of action.
well with the 10 levels in rogue i would say do 5 in factotum then multiclass into iaijutsu master from Oriental Adventures, and take iaijutsu as one of the factotum class skills, cuz then if you DO get into a fight all you have to do is catch your opponent flat footed, roll a d20, expend an inspiration point to add your int mod to the roll, then you add as many d6's on top of your already 4d6 for sneak attack as long as you draw your weapon in the same round as you attack. then get the quick sheathe feat from pathfinder to make putting your weapon a way a swift or free action and quick draw from D&D 3.5. then you can draw, sheathe, attack, and move, all in the same round, do anywhere from 5-10 d6 of extra damage, and you will be a skill monkey, i may have built this a few times before lol

[Crake]

I had do spend 90k for some living expenses (a house and some gold to eat even if he do not get a job).

90k for food and a house? Did you pick up a massive mansion on prime real estate or something? Eating nothing but the finest caviar and most expensive wines? According to cityscape, an average apartment, or a small cottage costs 1,000-4,000 gold, while a villa or manor is 2,000-16,000 gold, while the DMGII prices a mansion at 100,000gp under the business rules.

Food is likewise listed in the player's handbook, even eating good meals each day, basically eating out at fancy restraunts for every meal, for 10 years, would only run you about 1,800 gold.

So unless you're envisioning your character living in a mansion with dozens of servants tending to the place, and banquets every night, I'd try and ask your DM to reconsider that 90k figure.

[Trandir]

well with the 10 levels in rogue i would say do 5 in factotum then multiclass into iaijutsu master from Oriental Adventures, and take iaijutsu as one of the factotum class skills, cuz then if you DO get into a fight all you have to do is catch your opponent flat footed, roll a d20, expend an inspiration point to add your int mod to the roll, then you add as many d6's on top of your already 4d6 for sneak attack as long as you draw your weapon in the same round as you attack. then get the quick sheathe feat from pathfinder to make putting your weapon a way a swift or free action and quick draw from D&D 3.5. then you can draw, sheathe, attack, and move, all in the same round, do anywhere from 5-10 d6 of extra damage, and you will be a skill monkey, i may have built this a few times before lol

Thanks for the advice but I see a couple of problems with that PRC: I do not meet the prerequisites and also it isn't very good for a skillmonkey.

We do not use material from pathfinder so no katana shenanigans unfortunately.

But why 5 levels in factotum when that single level in exemplar, 3 in a full spellcaster and 1 generic class provides basically the same bonus plus some more? Probably something more variegated like rogue 10/ shadowdancer 2/ exemplar 1/ warblade 1/ Scout 1 (feat swift ambusher)/ Swordsage 1/ Expert 2 (probably craven and 2 utility feats)/ something else 2 will provide probably more skill ranks and things to do that I can put in a single sheet







90k for food and a house? Did you pick up a massive mansion on prime real estate or something? Eating nothing but the finest caviar and most expensive wines? According to cityscape, an average apartment, or a small cottage costs 1,000-4,000 gold, while a villa or manor is 2,000-16,000 gold, while the DMGII prices a mansion at 100,000gp under the business rules.

Food is likewise listed in the player's handbook, even eating good meals each day, basically eating out at fancy restraunts for every meal, for 10 years, would only run you about 1,800 gold.

So unless you're envisioning your character living in a mansion with dozens of servants tending to the place, and banquets every night, I'd try and ask your DM to reconsider that 90k figure.

Weirdly everything in this setting cost a lot of money. A looooooooooooot.
Usually any item is selled for 3 times the manual price and rolled randomically. Aslo just the flat itself took 30k and 40k for a wand of invisibility a handy haversak and a pair of gloves of dexterity +2. And 20 k for permits, documents and other burocratic nonsense to get a house and the first 2-3 years of daily expenses.

The gold is super inflated here.

But on both sides, it is worth much less but we get much more out of the quests.

[OGDojo]

Thanks for the advice but I see a couple of problems with that PRC: I do not meet the prerequisites and also it isn't very good for a skillmonkey.

We do not use material from pathfinder so no katana shenanigans unfortunately.

D&D 3.5 has a katana in the Oriental Adventures book. but Iaijutsu focus in D&D 3.5 only specifies "Melee Weapon" for Iaijutsu focus. not Katana >;) so you can do it with the Greathammer from MM1 normally weilded by a minotaur that has 1d12 with a 19-20x4 crit :smallbiggrin: or you can use it with the Scythe, or with a Kusari Gama for all the rules care lol! as long as you draw your melee weapon in the same turn you attack with it you can add your iaijutsu focus damage, and with the skill points you get and the levels you already have and the BAB that you already have it should be realatively easy to shift into the Iaijutsu master. i actually built something similar

Ghestalt Factotum, Lurk, Iaijutsu Master. and i had a 50+ to my iaijutsu every time i attacked, on top of the like 8 or 9 d6's for my sneak attack, i was rolling close to 20 dice a hit thanks to marbles, hit and run tactics, and the invisibility spell. not to mention i was wielding a hammer that was as big as she was dealing a crap ton more damage on crits.

Back on topic, if you dont use it in this campaign i would still suggest trying it out one day... also the Swift Hunter feat... you should try that one out too.

[Trandir]

D&D 3.5 has a katana in the Oriental Adventures book. but Iaijutsu focus in D&D 3.5 only specifies "Melee Weapon" for Iaijutsu focus. not Katana >;) so you can do it with the Greathammer from MM1 normally weilded by a minotaur that has 1d12 with a 19-20x4 crit :smallbiggrin: or you can use it with the Scythe, or with a Kusari Gama for all the rules care lol! as long as you draw your melee weapon in the same turn you attack with it you can add your iaijutsu focus damage, and with the skill points you get and the levels you already have and the BAB that you already have it should be realatively easy to shift into the Iaijutsu master. i actually built something similar

Ghestalt Factotum, Lurk, Iaijutsu Master. and i had a 50+ to my iaijutsu every time i attacked, on top of the like 8 or 9 d6's for my sneak attack, i was rolling close to 20 dice a hit thanks to marbles, hit and run tactics, and the invisibility spell. not to mention i was wielding a hammer that was as big as she was dealing a crap ton more damage on crits.

Back on topic, if you dont use it in this campaign i would still suggest trying it out one day... also the Swift Hunter feat... you should try that one out too.

Yes iaijutsu focus is probably one of the 3 or 4 best skill to use in combat. A little weird to use every turn but one could just carry 10 daggers and draw them while moving and toss them immetiately after.
As it is now I have 16 ranks in iaijutsu focus, 13 bonus from varius souces, 1 from Cha and 10 from Skill Mastery, all in all it is enough to get 8d6 somewhat reliably.

About swift hunter did you meant swift ambuscer? The swift hunter is for multiclass ranger/scouts

[OGDojo]

Yes iaijutsu focus is probably one of the 3 or 4 best skill to use in combat. A little weird to use every turn but one could just carry 10 daggers and draw them while moving and toss them immetiately after.
As it is now I have 16 ranks in iaijutsu focus, 13 bonus from varius souces, 1 from Cha and 10 from Skill Mastery, all in all it is enough to get 8d6 somewhat reliably.

About swift hunter did you meant swift ambuscer? The swift hunter is for multiclass ranger/scouts

no i just meant swift hunter lol i dont mean for your rogue to go into it i just thought id throw that feat out there for you to try in some other campaign, also you cant throw daggers with iaijutsu, it specifies melee attacks, i tried really hard to work around that but its pretty ironclad.
i mean your DM might allow it as long as you burn a feat. also epic level you can get a feat that will allow you to do more than the max 9 or 10 d6 for iaijutsu as long as you have the ability to roll that high. not sure where its at but i remember finding it hidden away in one of the more obscure books.

now i wanna rebuild my Allison king (Non Gestalt) character on here and see what people think lol

[Trandir]

no i just meant swift hunter lol i dont mean for your rogue to go into it i just thought id throw that feat out there for you to try in some other campaign, also you cant throw daggers with iaijutsu, it specifies melee attacks, i tried really hard to work around that but its pretty ironclad.
i mean your DM might allow it as long as you burn a feat. also epic level you can get a feat that will allow you to do more than the max 9 or 10 d6 for iaijutsu as long as you have the ability to roll that high. not sure where its at but i remember finding it hidden away in one of the more obscure books.

now i wanna rebuild my Allison king (Non Gestalt) character on here and see what people think lol

Oh well that was a mishunderstanding when I sayed "toss them" I meant to litterally drop them to the ground so I can draw a new one and qualify for the iaijutsu focus. The epic level feat is improved iaijutsu focus from the WotC site.

Anyway thanks for the help and let's get back on topic

[OGDojo]

Oh well that was a mishunderstanding when I sayed "toss them" I meant to litterally drop them to the ground so I can draw a new one and qualify for the iaijutsu focus. The epic level feat is improved iaijutsu focus from the WotC site.

Anyway thanks for the help and let's get back on topic

sorry, i still say multiclass into factotum and use your newfound skills to help you through the more political side of your campaign