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katarl
2007-10-12, 08:06 AM
Ultimate Corpsecrafting

Beyond the ken of erudite sage and petty spellcaster alike, unnatural things grow and thrive in the dark. Mysterious and ancient creatures pioneered the creation of new breeds of undead being, no longer stagnant and stale, like most of their type, but adaptive, responsive to change, a kind of evolving undead. The gap between living and dead shortened considerably that day.

Over time, like all empires, those ones fell, but the knowledge that they possessed was too insidious to be forgotten, and it was not long that ignorant treasure hunters discovered some of the most basic of these secrets, and traded them away to fledgling necromancers and other beings of dark intent.

The ancient art, or Corpsecrafting, as it is called, has thus spread throughout the world, much coveted by those who would build a better manservant.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w229/minx_summerstorm/Necromancer.jpg
courtesy of minx_summerstorm

This is a simpler and more powerful version of Deluxe Corpsecrafter, there is no longer a dc check, and the cost system has changed, as well as several new traits, a more robust allowance system and is generally less fiddly.


Corpsecrafter [General]

You know secrets about undead metabolism better left unknown, and can empower your creations beyond their normal capacities.

Benefit: You learn 3 corpsecrafter traits from the list below, and can apply any of these to undead you create or animate using necromancy spells. These traits cost material components to apply: 25gp/hd of the undead, per trait applied, and undead can only support so many traits- see table 1-01. You may take this feat multiple times, each time learning 3 more traits.


Specialist Corpsecrafter [General]

Extensive research and exhaustive experiment has yielded the very best results from undead you create.

Prerequisites: Knowledge of 3 or more traits; able to cast 5th level necromancy spells

Benefit: Choose 2 corpsecrafter traits that you know, you may now apply the specialist benefit to undead that you apply these traits to, as well. Each specialist benefit costs as an additional trait (for purposes of hd maximum), but costs 50gp/hd instead. You may take this feat multiple times, each time learning the specialist traits of 2 more traits you know.


Master Specialist [General]

None can match the sheer power of your undead, they are truly a terror to behold.

Prerequisites: Knowledge of 5 or more traits, including 3 specialist traits; able to cast 8th level necromancy spells

Benefit: Choose any one trait you also know the specialist benefit of. You now automatically apply this (basic) trait to any undead you create or animate using necromancy spells. This does not take up a trait slot, or cost any additional gold. You may take this feat only once.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x62/pharoh_02/NECROMANCER01.jpg
courtesy of pharoah_02


Corpsecrafted undead can only support so many traits, as they are powered by the life energy (negative energy) of the undead themselves. Larger undead require more energy, ans so have more to spare, while smaller undead have less and need to be more efficient with it.



Table 1-01: Slot maximum
HD-------------Limit
1-5------------3
6-10-----------4
11-15----------5
16-20----------6

Variant Class Features

Undead Mastery

change- in addition to being able to control more hd at a time, you learn 2 corpsecrafter traits, one of which may be specialised. You may treat this traits as if they cost half their normal material component cost.

Enhanced Undead

change- you begin play with knowledge of 2 traits, and the first trait you apply to an undead costs no gold, if chosen from these two.

katarl
2007-10-12, 08:07 AM
Traits

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f267/CrimsonHawke/014e626f.jpg
courtesy of CrimsonHawke

Power

Big, burly and bulging with what couldn't be muscle, your undead can lift well beyond their normal limits, and strike harder than ten fully grown men.

Benefit: Undead recieves +6 enhancement bonus to strength

Specialist: Undead is treated as one size category larger than normal for all beneficial purposes.

Grace

Dancing and dodging through the battlefield, your undead laugh at the coordination of the living, and react faster than any elf.

Benefit: Undead recieves +6 enhancement bonus to dexerity

Specialist: Undead is always treated as having partial cover (20% miss chance).

Durable

All undead are tough, but your undead put nails to shame, they can endure almost any blow, and keep on swinging.

Benefit: Undead recieves +4 hp per Hit Die.

Specialist: Undead starts with maximum possible hitpoints.

Hardy

Leathery callouses form on your undead, and bones twist and harden, now nearly impervious to harm.

Benefit: Undead recieves +4 racial bonus to natural armour

Specialist: Your undeads current damage reduction increases by 5/x, x being the current damage reduction. If the undead does not have damage reduction, it gains 2/-.

Intuitive

Like a monk, your undead can dodge blows that seemingly come out of nowhere. Nothing's going to hit them now.

Benefit: Undead recieves +4 racial bonus to dodge armour

Specialist: Undead can take an additional move action as an immediate action.

Enduring

Like a bad cold, your undead keep on trucking through any attempt to kill it. The bane of trigger-happy mages everywhere.

Benefit: Undead recieves a +4 profane bonus to all saving throws.

Specialist: Undead may choose to automatically pass on any save 1/round as an immediate action.

Regenerative

Difficult to keep down, these creatures are. Bones knit and reform themselves, totally implacable.

Benefit: Undead recieves Fast Healing 2

Specialist: Undead killed reanimates 1d4 rounds later with 1 hit point. Can only be permanently killed by good or light effects or holy water.

Skilled

Professional tradesmen have nothing on your undead, they really are good at what they do.

Benefit: Undead recieves +10 racial bonus to any one skill. Mindless undead cannot take intelligence based skills, and incorporeal undead cannot take strength based skills.

Specialist: Undead recieves the class features, but not spellcasting of any PC class as if they had levels in that class equal to half their level, except those that would be impossible or improbable for undead-eg. paladin or druid.

Unlike other traits, this may be applied more than once, each time for a different skill.

Alacrity

Faster than a speeding bulette, these undead may not know how to do much, but they can do it fast.

Benefit: Undead gain an extra attack when making a full round attack. Zombies instead lose the single actions only quality.

Specialist: Undead gains +30ft insight bonus to speed, and +1 insight bonus to attack rolls, reflex saves and to ac.

Elemental

Imbued with the primal forces of nature, your undead are a blend of energy and necromancy.

Benefit: Undead deal +1d6 energy damage (your choice, chosen at creation) with melee attacks, and gain resistance 20 to the requisite energy.

Specialist: Undead gains immunity to the requisite energy type, and gains all the qualities of an elemental of that type, medium size.

Vicious

Malice pours from your undead as it brandishes its wicked claws.

Benefit: Choose one natural attack the undead possesses. Its damage goes up one grade (eg. 1d6 to 1d8), and its critical threat doubles (eg.20 to 19-20).

Specialist: The natural attack chosen gains the wounding quality, which constantly drips blood.

Combative

Stepping in formation, your undead are ruthless military machines. They know how to make war.

Benefit: Undead gains armour and weapon proficiencies of a warrior of its level. Additionally, it gains 2 bonus combat feats it fulfils the prerequisites for.

Specialist: Undead gains base attack equal to its level instead of 1/2 its level, and they gain 1 additional feat per 4 hit die.

Reserved

Deep within your undead lies the secret of their power. They don't share it with anyone.

Benefit: Undead gain +6 turn resistance.

Specialist: Undead can no longer be affected by turning or rebuking.

Sorcerous

Combining magic and negative energy, your undead can tap into the weave to power its spells.

Benefit: Undead may cast any one arcane spell (chosen at creation) up to 2nd level, 3 times a day. The caster level equals the undeads hd. You cannot choose a spell that requires a higher caster level than your undead has hd.

Specialist: Undead may cast any one arcane spell (chosen at creation) up to 4nd level, 2 times a day. The caster level equals the undeads hd. You cannot choose a spell that requires a higher caster level than your undead has hd.

Unlike other traits, you may apply Sorcerous more than once, picking different spells each time. Undead, of course, must supply expensive material components or foci (1gp or more). They may not use spells with an xp component.

Cerebral

Not possessing a mind does not hinder your undead's latent psionics in the slightest.

Benefit: Undead may manifest any one power (chosen at creation) up to 2nd level, 3 times a day. The manifester level equals the undeads hd. You cannot choose a powerthat requires a higher manifester level than your undead has hd.

Specialist: Undead may manifest any one power (chosen at creation) up to 4nd level, 2 times a day. The manifester level equals the undeads hd. You cannot choose a power that requires a higher manifester level than your undead has hd.

Unlike other traits, you may apply Cerebral more than once, picking different powers each time. You may not choose powers with an xp component. These powers cannot be augmented, and are not considered augmented.

Shade

Your undead possess an innate understanding of shadow and the dark.

Benefit: Undead may cast any one mystery (chosen at creation) up to 2nd level, 3 times a day. The shadowcaster level equals the undeads hd. You cannot choose a mystery that requires a higher shadowcaster level than your undead has hd.

Specialist: Undead may cast any one mystery (chosen at creation) up to 4nd level, 2 times a day. The shadowcaster level equals the undeads hd. You cannot choose a mystery that requires a higher shadowcaster level than your undead has hd.

Unlike other traits, you may apply Shade more than once, picking different mysteries each time. You may not choose mysteries with an xp component.

Bound

Calling out to beings beyond imagining, your undead become gateways to the impossible.

Benefit: Your undead are permanently bound to any 1st level vestige (chosen at creation). They always manifest the sign, and if applicable, are always influenced.

Specialist: Your undead are instead permanently bound to any 3rd level vestige (chosen at creation). They always manifest the sign, and if applicable, are always influenced.

Detonation

Your undead can explode, much to everybody's surprise (hopefully not yours).

Benefit: Your undead explode on death or when ordered (which kills them), dealing 1d6 negative energy damage per 2 hit die in a 10ft burst. You may not combine this trait with the specialist regenerative trait.

Specialist: Your undead can make a melee touch attack to deal 1d6 negative per 2hd, once a round.

Sacrilegeous

Your undead revel in their profane nature, so much that the forces of evil and blight sometimes lend a hand.

Benefit: Undead may cast any one divine spell (chosen at creation) up to 2nd level, 3 times a day. The caster level equals the undeads hd. You cannot choose a spell that requires a higher caster level than your undead has hd. It may not be a spell with the good, healing or light descriptor.

Specialist: Undead may cast any one divine spell (chosen at creation) up to 4nd level, 2 times a day. The caster level equals the undeads hd. You cannot choose a spell that requires a higher caster level than your undead has hd. It may not be a spell with the good, healing or light descriptor.

Unlike other traits, you may apply Sorcerous more than once, picking different spells each time. Undead, of course, must supply expensive material components or foci (1gp or more). They may not use spells with an xp component.





You may only apply a trait of each type once, unless noted. DCs are always charisma based.


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f369/Darkspawn93/Necromancer.jpg
courtesy of Darkspawn93

katarl
2007-10-12, 08:14 AM
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i166/Necromancer777/Necromancer.jpg
courtesy of necromancer777

Chapter 3

Examples

Sisyphus the necromancer wants a medium size unarmed bruiser to act as a personal bodyguard. He's a 10th level dread necro and possesses the traits: Power; Bound; Combative; Regenerative and Alacrity. Combative and Power are specialised.

He chooses a ghaele eladrin, preserving it with timeless unguent and other methods, before setting out to animate it. It's 20hd (zombie), which requires 500gp of onyx to animate.

He wants something that'll pass for a monk, so first he binds her to ronove, a 1st level vestige, giving her sprint, monks fists, strikes as cold iron and magic, feather fall, and telekinetic fists. This costs a further 500gp and 1 slot.

Zombies are slow, anyone could spot a zombie in combat, so he adds the alacrity trait, which removes the undeads single actions only. That costs 500gp and 1 more slot.

He decides to further enhance her with the power trait, giving her +6 str, as well as specialising, giving her (effectively) powerful build. This costs 1500gp and 2 slots, leaving 2.

He uses these on combative, and regenerative, costing 1000gp more.

Thats 6 slots, her maximum, and costs 4000gp. Not bad considering you now have a 20hd regenerating monk zombie with flying!

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s191/Dark_Millicent/2006-02-28/67e6re2.jpg
courtesy of Dark_Millicent

katarl
2007-10-12, 08:15 AM
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/legendary_library/167-Mirage.jpg
courtesy of legendary_library

Chapter 4

For Players

Equipment

Control Crystal

Prestige Classes

Thrall of Rang'os

Deadwalker Guildmaster

Spells

Undead and Magic

Discharge Undead
Necromancy
Level: Sorc/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Duration: Instantaneous
Range: Close
Saving Throw: Will (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes

The necromancer reaches out to you with an open hand, as if giving you something. You eagerly accept the subtle wisps of power that surround you. You feel... in control.

This spell will transfer control of one undead from yourself to another willing spellcaster, neither needs to be able to cast animate dead or any similar spells, but the caster must be in control of the undead to be given (that is, it's hd must count towards your maximum). The spellcaster is now considered it's master, and it's hd now counts towards his maximum instead (usually 4hd/caster level). If the spellcaster is unwilling, the undead simply becomes uncontrolled.

Necromancers use this spell to trade undead in return for gold, goods or other undead.

Material Components: a sliver of onyx worth 5gp/hd to be transferred

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i166/Necromancer777/Necromancergoddes.jpg
courtesy of necromancer777

katarl
2007-10-12, 08:17 AM
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n96/eldergm/L2/Necromancer.jpg
courtesy of eldergm

chapter 5

Additional Material

THE DEADWALKERS SOCIETY

Symbol: A white circle surrounding a smaller, black circle, inside which is a white, skeletal hand.

Background, Goals and Dreams: The society was founded deep in the ruins of a Banite temple by a secretive cult of liches and other undead who grew tired of what they saw as the oppression of the living. They set up a school there, to train talented necromancers, with the intention of selling their capabilities to the highest bidder, while remaining protected by their power. They regard morality with contempt thinking as logically and pragmatically as possible, and punishments are shockingly draconian even by the standards of the underdark. Despite this, their school is among the greatest of its type, and it's creations and alumni are highly sought after.

Enemies and Allies: As a necromantic cult-like group, the deadwalkers have many enemies, most notably the church of Pelor, whose clerics ceaselessly attempt to destroy the deadwalkers. The society has a particular hatred for the Seldarine, the origins of which remain unknown.

Type: Cabal (Social)
Scale: 11 (Multi-regional)

Criterion Affiliation Score Modifier
Character level +1/2 level
Corpsecrafter Feat +1/feat
Tomb-tainted Soul feat +1
Ability to cast animate dead +1
Ability to cast create undead +2*
Ability to cast create greater undead +3*
Donates undead to organization +1 per 10 hd
Goodly Aligned -4
Chaotic Aligned -10

Affiliation Score Title: Benefits and Duties
3 or lower No affiliation or junior member with no benefits
4 - 10 Neophyte: Member of the society, may attend lectures and has a dormitory where he may stay free of charge, and free meals. Must pay a tuition of 100gp/month.
11 - 15 Acolyte: Undead show more respect to the student, he is treated as possessing the lich-loved feat (boVD)
16 - 22 Adept: Unrestricted access to the animation chambers, which allow undead created there an extra trait slot.
23-29 Master: Gains benefit of Master Corpsecrafter feat if he does not already possess it. You must now spend at least 40 hours a week teaching younger deadwalkers. Each failure to do so causes you to lose 2 from your affiliation score.
30 or higher Grand Master: No longer loses a level from dying.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l251/v_vega007/fa0f59bb.jpg
courtesy of v_vega007

katarl
2007-10-12, 08:18 AM
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/Tobi-Sean/NecromancerGirl-Morentez.png
courtesy of Tobe-Sean

more to come.

Skelengar
2007-10-12, 09:51 AM
It's great, but what's with all the pictures?

katarl
2007-10-12, 10:49 AM
there'll be more text eventually. it's easier to get the pics up first. any thoughts on the system?

Hadrian_Emrys
2007-10-12, 11:00 AM
I'm liking it quite a bit. I always felt that undead were throw away minions without some extra kicker. The Corpsecrafting feats in LM were a step in the right direction, but with only a limited number of feats available to casters, they don't do quite enough still.

Arrghus
2007-10-12, 02:32 PM
Elven skeletons with the Grace and Combative traits, and Weapon Finesse to boot. Sounds like fun. Expensive (a minimum cost of 75 gp per skeleton, + rapiers is you want better armaments) and not necessarily very effective, but skeleton fencers. Awesome. :smallbiggrin:. :xykon: would be proud. Not that that is necessarily good, what with him being evil and all, but still.

Maerok
2007-10-12, 02:58 PM
Oooh shiny. :D Is this a revised Corpsecrafter outlook on it? I think this one works better; setting it up like the skill tricks, kinda. May I propose a few?

Guardian
These special undead are highly adept at bodyguard duty.
Benefit: Undead gains a +2 bonus to attack and damage against any creature that has attacked its creator within three rounds.
Specialist: Once per encounter per Guardian undead, as an immediate action, the creator may redirect an effect or attack to an adjacent Guardian undead that could have been hit as well, typically an adjacent one; this only works on effects or actions specifically targeting the creator (not area of effect spells).
Example: A finger of death spell aimed at the creator can be redirected, as well as a melee attack against the creator while the Guardian is also adjacent to the attacker.

Integrated
The bond between creator and created just got stronger.
Benefit: While within one mile, the creator of the undead may see through its eyes up to 60 feet with darkvision; this may be barred by spells, treat the effect as scrying when doing so.
Specialist: The creator gains a permanent status and telepathic bond effect towards its undead creations and is roughly aware of where they are.

Stalker
Though undead, the senses of many such creatures only get sharper when hunting the living.
Benefit: Undead gains the Tracking feat.
Specialist: Undead gains the Scent ability when tracking a living creature.

Incarnum-fused
The energy of souls bonds with the undead to create a formidable enemy.
Benefit: Undead may shape one evil soulmeld from the Incarnate or Soulborn soulmeld list; it has an essentia pool of 1 plus 1 more per five HD; the DC of any save is 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha modifier.
Specialist: The soulmeld is bound to a chakra of the creator's choice.

Treacherous
Sometimes, the greatest enemy was once an ally.
Benefit: Undead's natural weapons gain the bane property against its original race; an elven zombie will deal extra damage against elves.
Specialist: On a critical hit against a creature of its original race, the victim must succeed on a Fortitude save or be slain instantly. The save DC is equal to the damage dealt.

Deceitful
Any necromancer knows that to gain the upperhand, one must stay out of their enemies' suspicions.
Benefit: The undead gains max ranks in Disguise, or is treated as such for mindless undead, allowing it to evade detection by sight (opposed by a Spot check).
Specialist: The undead is immune to detect undead and detect evil spells of a caster level less than 4 + undead's HD.

Artisan
The undead have nothing but spare time, and some, with training, develop extraordinary skill.
Benefit: Intelligent undead gains max ranks in one of your class skills. It takes an additional week to create this undead creature (to train it). It cannot use a skill that requires the expenditure of XP (Crafting, etc.).
Specialist: Gains Skill Focus in the relevant skill.

Wartorn
Your undead minions are infused with the natural element of war.
Benefit: Undead receives proficiency and Weapon Focus with a one-handed martial weapon.
Specialist: Undead with the Wartorn trait gain an additional +2 attack bonus when flanking when the other flanker is Wartorn as well. It gains a +1 bonus to AC for each Wartorn undead adjacent to it, to a maximum of +2.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-10-12, 03:31 PM
I can see Regnerative undead being a very dangerous thing, especially since they get Fast Healing too.

Think of a necromancer's army filled with them. You take one down, and it stands up a couple rounds later. The longer you take to kill it again, the more it returns to it's initial state. Meanwhile, you've got all the other undead as well. An unending wave.

Jaerc
2007-10-12, 04:02 PM
Can you define 'starts' in the Specialist Durable trait?

Intuitive's specialist ability is above and beyond improved uncanny dodge, was this purposeful?

Elemental traits seem a fair bit more powerful comparatively with the others.

For combatively, define 'combat feats'.

The reserved specialist ability is a little over the top in my mind. Why not just give it a large bonus. Also I can't imagine why any necromancer would grant an undead that.

Mysteries are generally slightly more powerful than spells of an equal level. You may want to take that into account for your shade progression.

Clarify how one orders an undead to explode?

Yeril
2007-10-12, 04:16 PM
Clarify how one orders an undead to explode?

Easy.

"YOU! Skeleton! Expload NOW!"

For vampires? not so sure.

Maerok
2007-10-12, 05:10 PM
I can see Regnerative undead being a very dangerous thing, especially since they get Fast Healing too.

Think of a necromancer's army filled with them. You take one down, and it stands up a couple rounds later. The longer you take to kill it again, the more it returns to it's initial state. Meanwhile, you've got all the other undead as well. An unending wave.

"Ninety-nine bloodthirsty zombies on the hill,
Ninety-nine bloodthirsty zombies!
Take one down! Stab it around!
Ninety-eight bloodthirsty zomb- Oh... Well that su- *splortch*"
-Kelmar, the Short-Lived

Maybe make it so that the undead are revived after 3d10 minutes or so; it'll keep it out of battle, but at least it allows the necromancer to preserve most of his/her investments. I'd like the image of the bones slowly tumbled back together, reforming a skeleton from the toes up, with the skull finally tumbling up its back and locking into place on top of its neck...

All in all, I think a DM is a lot more likely to allow this as it is more simplistic than the original improved Corpsecrafter you proposed, though both are quite impressive. I'd allow it, though I am necromancy-inclined. :D Any possibility of some prestige classes or something? You've got a lot of chapters set up here, and I'd like to see what else you have planned.

Yeril
2007-10-12, 05:15 PM
Seems alittle overpowered some combinations.

Grab Strong, Durable and Regenerative, slap it on some orc zombies and you have a 200gp MONSTER with +12 Strength, Fast healing and more hitpoints than the party barbarian... and consider that this can all be aquired at first level with alittle extra funding. :smalleek:

Grab some levels under your belt and Regenerative Skeletons.. I mean at 50gp each they are a bargin, especialy when only holy water, good aligned attacks or damaging light spells can kill them.. and how often do creatures have stuff like that on hand exept when your raiding a pelorian church.

Yeril
2007-10-12, 05:52 PM
I'd like to know the effects of Adding/Updating Traits? Eg. a spellcaster has a very nice Ogre Skeleton hanging around with him, he finaly specalises in Power and Durablity, Can he add these new effects to the ogre?

and say he takes Coprsecrafter again and picks up Combative to give the ogre more feats, can he then Add this effect to him?

Ps. Sorry if you have already gone over this and Ive missed it :smallredface:

katarl
2007-10-13, 09:47 AM
wow, lots of questions, i'll do my best to answer them.


Maerok Oooh shiny. :D Is this a revised Corpsecrafter outlook on it? I think this one works better; setting it up like the skill tricks, kinda. May I propose a few?

Very nice list there, Maerok, i particularly like integrated, i may have to use it. One of the things i went for when writing this was to make it easily customisable, you can always just make up new traits for a necromancers 'signature move'.


Can you define 'starts' in the Specialist Durable trait?

The undead has maximum hit points per hit die when animated, in this case 12 per hit die, meaning on average, you're gaining 5.5 more per hd.


Intuitive's specialist ability is above and beyond improved uncanny dodge, was this purposeful?

Yes, rogues get uncanny dodge early on, so i felt it was too weak for a special trait when another might be powerful build or immunity to turning.


For combatively, define 'combat feats'.

Feats a fighter may take as bonus feats.


The reserved specialist ability is a little over the top in my mind. Why not just give it a large bonus. Also I can't imagine why any necromancer would grant an undead that.

I felt adding +12 or +14 turn resistance was unnecessary- no-ones going to turn that! A non-clerical necromancer may find a use for it, but yes, its as much a curse as it is a blessing.


Mysteries are generally slightly more powerful than spells of an equal level. You may want to take that into account for your shade progression

Thematically undead have a great deal in common with shadowcasting, so i felt it was unnecessary to make changes in the number per day. I may well be adding a 'needs to be able to cast said power/spell/mystery' in later edits, which will mitigate that somewhat anyway.


Clarify how one orders an undead to explode?

The undead has to be under your control, but yes, it just is:


"YOU! Skeleton! Expload NOW!"

or you could use codewords if you'd prefer, but they have to be set at creation. Its a free action either way.


Maybe make it so that the undead are revived after 3d10 minutes or so; it'll keep it out of battle, but at least it allows the necromancer to preserve most of his/her investments. I'd like the image of the bones slowly tumbled back together, reforming a skeleton from the toes up, with the skull finally tumbling up its back and locking into place on top of its neck...

All in all, I think a DM is a lot more likely to allow this as it is more simplistic than the original improved Corpsecrafter you proposed, though both are quite impressive. I'd allow it, though I am necromancy-inclined. :D Any possibility of some prestige classes or something? You've got a lot of chapters set up here, and I'd like to see what else you have planned.

1. The reanimation time is 1d4 because i wanted to see the ability useable in an encounter against pcs, who would kill the skeleton, and find that it just keeps getting back up, and it was the original time proposed in the necromantic undead templates somewhere else on the web(the main idea was taken from there). Of course, if you're dming you can pick any time, or if you're a player you may justify increasing the time yourself as a sort of 'timer'.

The best combo i can think of so far is a team spec. regenerative undead with detonation. With each kill you must take the damage, which heals the newly reconstructed ones in the team, over and over.

2. Yes, i had just written my first corpsecrafter list, posted it and only then realised that i didn't really want to play it. Thats why i went and wrote a few more, and ended up with this one. There will be at least 1 small prestige class, since i need one to make my thread on wotc boards on topic, my post magic and spells has yet to get a single reply. It will probably be a themed prc, or a guild-based one.

Other stuff lined up are two affiliations (deadwalkers and reavers), items, spells (incl. discharge undead) and examples. I may also add slightly modified versions of maeroks traits to the list, as well as others who may want to submit traits.


Grab Strong, Durable and Regenerative, slap it on some orc zombies and you have a 200gp MONSTER with +12 Strength, Fast healing and more hitpoints than the party barbarian... and consider that this can all be aquired at first level with alittle extra funding.

that would be a lot of extra funding (remember you have to *cast* the spell as well), but yes, that would work.


Grab some levels under your belt and Regenerative Skeletons.. I mean at 50gp each they are a bargin, especialy when only holy water, good aligned attacks or damaging light spells can kill them.. and how often do creatures have stuff like that on hand exept when your raiding a pelorian church.

Well, it would cost a bit more than that: 100gp each, because regenerative (25) and spec. regenerative (50) don't cancel out each other, but they are still a bargain if they don't have any magical support. The idea behind it was that armies would simply stock up extra holy water, which isn't too costly. It will give players a real shock though.


I'd like to know the effects of Adding/Updating Traits? Eg. a spellcaster has a very nice Ogre Skeleton hanging around with him, he finaly specalises in Power and Durablity, Can he add these new effects to the ogre?

and say he takes Coprsecrafter again and picks up Combative to give the ogre more feats, can he then Add this effect to him?

No, sorry, the effects have to be applied at creation (apply when animating/creating using necromancy spells). The same thing with specialist traits, it has to be done during the animation.

Yeril
2007-10-13, 11:11 AM
Alacrity

Faster than a speeding bulette, these undead may not know how to do much, but they can do it fast.

I only just noticed this.. thats hilarias! :smallbiggrin:

Vadin
2007-10-13, 01:38 PM
I used what's been provided so far to make this, the Disciple of Flame. These undead are sent to bring chaos to towns in the middle of the night. The villain in this adventure (a crazy old man who may or may not be the owner of the pub the heroes are staying in) will loose them in the middle of the night, using the touch attacks to catch people and buildings on fire so the undead blend in with the living.


Disciple of Flame

Size/Type: Medium Undead
Hit Dice: 4D12+16 (56)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 30 ft.
Armor Class: 13 (0+size, +3 Dex, +0 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+4
Attack: Claw +4 melee (1d6+2)
Full Attack: Claw +4 melee (1d6+2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Halo of Fire
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., Undead Qualities, Halo of Fire, Fire Resistance 10, Ruinous Attack
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +4, Will +4
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 16, Con -, Int 0, Wis 10, Cha 2
Skills: None
Feats: Improved Sunder
Traits: Bound (Vestige of Aym), Durable (Specialist)
Alignment: Neutral Evil
CR: 4

Halo of Fire (Su): The undead is constantly surrounded by a layer of fire, dealing 1d6 fire damage to all who strike it in melee. In addition, the undead may make a melee touch attack dealing 1d6 damage, though is unlikely to do so unless commanded to.

Ruinous Attack (Su): The undead deals double damage to objects with melee attacks.

Yeril
2007-10-13, 06:05 PM
Heres my Goblin Clerics Bodyguard, Im soon gonner animate some Goblin Skeletons and get some nifty archers with Combative (Point blank shot, Rapid shot) Acelaritive (Extra attack on full attack) and Grace (More dex)

for +4/+4/+4 to hit, costing 100gp & 1HD


Name; "Whumpa the Skeletal Ogre"
Class; Large Undead
Hit dice; 4d12+16 (42hp)
Initiative; +4
Speed; 30ft. in Breastplate; Base speed 40ft
AC; 20 (-1 size, +6 Natural, +5 Breastplate)
Bab/gpl; +2/+14
Attack; Greataxe +9 Melee (3d6+12 /X3)
or Claw +9 Melee (1d6+8 /X2)

Full attack: 2 Claws +9 Melee (1d6+8 /X2)

Special Qualities; Immunity to Cold, DR 5/Bludgeoning, Fast Healing 2
Saves; fort; +1 reflex; +1 will; +4
Abilities; Str; 27 Dex; 10 Con; - Int; - Wis; 10 Cha; 1
Feats; Improved Initiative
Traits Applied: Hardy (Basic), Power (Basic), Regenerative (Basic).

Maerok
2007-10-13, 08:17 PM
I'd like to see a CR modification for the use of traits, such as +1/2 per basic trait and +1 per specialist trait; for the purposes of a DM creating new undead such as those above (so they could be used as minor templates), or for XP and balancing a necromancer encounter as they are tougher than the normal versions.

katarl
2007-10-14, 12:42 PM
Some very nasty creatures there (27str!?), hopefully they'll be of use to your PCs (or in killing your PCs). What kind of undead are the disciples of flame? They don't have any natural armour, which is very strange.


I'd like to see a CR modification for the use of traits, such as +1/2 per basic trait and +1 per specialist trait; for the purposes of a DM creating new undead such as those above (so they could be used as minor templates), or for XP and balancing a necromancer encounter as they are tougher than the normal versions.

The examples you give seem about right, to be more useful to dms, i'll include this, or something like this in the next edit.


I only just noticed this.. thats hilarias!

Humour isn't usually my strong point, but glad you liked it!

Vadin
2007-10-14, 05:24 PM
They're mindless undead, just 4 HD of the Undead creature type (D12 HD, no CON, Undead Triats, etc.), 1 trait, and 1 specialist trait.

They aren't all that threatening individually and are really pretty easy to kill, but in large groups around a bunch of humans running around on fire, I'm hoping they'll confuse my players.

"Oh, no! That man's on fire! ELDRICHT BLAST!"

Yeril
2007-10-14, 06:38 PM
I'd like to point out that Detonation seems to be very.. weak, considering its specialist trait is no better than Elementals basic trait, and detonations basic trait tends to be a one hit wonder of a few D6 of damage that kills your undead.

Compared to say, Power, which grants +3 to hit and +3 damage, that piddly 1d6 damage kicker on your skeleton just doesn't cut it.

Even on higher 20hd undead, +10d6 final kicker just doesn't match up to some of the other abilitys, such as +80HP.

I would also like to see a trait that allows casting for Cleric spells, a priestly skeleton passing on negative healing to his zombie buddies seems nice

katarl
2007-10-18, 05:19 AM
How about these:

Blind Eye (unique)

Your undead have no eyes to see. This trait is favoured by the ascetics of Ki'teneth

Benefit: Undead loses its sense of sight and any sight-based abilities, but gains blindsight to a distance of 60ft.

Specialist: Undead gains benefit of the spell foresight, only in relation to himself.

Bonewrought (unique)

Your undead never lack for a weapon. This trait is the signature ability of the bonemen mercenary company, legendary for their incredible archery and unlimited ammunition.

Benefit: Undead may 'grow' a weapon that it is proficient with as a move action from it's bone (even zombies have bone underneath). If the undead relinquishes its grip on the weapon, it disintegrates a round later. The undead can only grow weapons of its size or smaller.

Specialist: Weapons grown recieve a +1 enhancement bonus per 4 hit die (min +1). They still disintegrate after a round if relinquished.

Necromantic lore holds that certain specialists have discovered how to add the 'profane' quality to their creations' bone weapons, but this is not available to PCs.

Maerok
2007-10-18, 09:09 AM
Blind Eye seems too powerful...

Lochar
2007-10-18, 09:23 AM
Maybe blindsense equal to 2' or 3' per HD? That way a more powerful created undead like that would actually have more benefit from the use.

katarl
2007-10-18, 10:12 AM
Blind Eye seems too powerful...

It does? Please elaborate. (Foresight is very high level, but it's pathetically weak)


Maybe blindsense equal to 2' or 3' per HD? That way a more powerful created undead like that would actually have more benefit from the use.

If i did do something like that (eg. 5ft/2hd), it would make 1hd undead completely useless, because they'd only be able to percieve a square around them. They'd be no point in applying the trait, or learning it, because it would weaken the undead who took it.

You'd need a minimum (prob. 30ft) to allow this to work.

Vadin
2007-10-18, 02:28 PM
Can we expect a 20-level necromancer class to go along with this?

Or a necrologist prestige class for those who can't use magic (a class that makes a few more powerful, permanent undead companions, maybe)?

katarl
2007-10-19, 02:33 AM
Can we expect a 20-level necromancer class to go along with this?

Or a necrologist prestige class for those who can't use magic (a class that makes a few more powerful, permanent undead companions, maybe)?

:smallfrown:

don't ask me that, or i'll probably end up doing it.

prob. no core class, but PrCs are likely.

Maerok
2007-10-19, 11:36 AM
The thing is, for a base class it seems as though the class would be dead until 7th level when it can finally use the Corpsecrafting abilities. Can it be applied to Summon Undead? Then that may give the class a little bit of utility before it can start building uber undead.

One feature I'd propose is the ability to cast animate dead at 3rd level as a cleric, and do so spontaneously by offering up 3 or 4 spell levels of prepared spells. Though the class itself would be best suited, thematically, to arcane magic. Most science/art-like.

And perhaps an ability that reduces the cost of 25/gp per trait -> 20/gp per trait, with specialized ones going from 50/gp -> 40/gp.

And maybe the ability to grant oneself one of their own known traits for one round per class level?

Definitely Corpsecrafter as a bonus feat, perhaps every 5 levels; with Specialized Corpsecrafter every 10?

And a feature rivaling the Dread Necro's Undead Mastery; "Corpsecrafted Legion"?

The ability to retroactively apply a trait, taking one hour and the normal amount of gp.

Any spell modified with Corpsecrafting gets a +1 CL bonus, then +2 CL later on.

Resistance to necromancy and undead, for the pesky ones who aren't your creations. I'd oppose giving the base class rebuke undead, as this would seem like more of a science-based necromancy than a divine one. Detect undead, magic circle against undead (like with Good/Evil/Chaos/Law) and hide from dead as SLA.

Also, the ability to preserve a corpse for later use (gentle repose or an appropriate DC 20 Profession check and/or Knowledge check (based on the type of creature)).

The ability to designate one Corpsecrafted undead per X class levels as a general or lieutenant, etc. to give it some leadership abilities (like intelligence or bonuses to nearby undead).

The ability to remove a trait from a Corpsecrafted undead with a touch (when going up against opposing Corpsecrafted undead).

Undead within 30 ft. feet gain the creator class level/2 positive energy resistance.

katarl
2007-10-19, 12:17 PM
*shakes fist at maerok*

Half of those ideas are already lined up for equipment, spells etc.

As punishment I will steal the other half.

:smallamused:

Maerok
2007-10-19, 12:34 PM
IM IN UR MIND, STEALIN' ALL UR THAWTZ.
:smallbiggrin:

DracoDei
2007-10-19, 06:00 PM
This may be selfish of me... but I just want to know how well any/all of this would mesh/synergize with my Empty Skin, Gut Snake, and Hopping Stomach concepts...
(See my sig for links)

Maerok
2007-10-19, 09:09 PM
A Detonating gut snake would be awesome.

DracoDei
2007-10-19, 10:21 PM
A Detonating gut snake would be awesome.

Because of the grappling (and need to rescue the possibly nauseated victim) causing more people to be within range, or because of the resulting mess, or both?


P.S.: Flavor wise, an Empty Skin with "Skilled" would fit, although because of their low hitdice it wouldn't give that much of a bonus... still even a few ranks in Diplomacy or Handle Animal can make your undead butler or groom much more effective.

katarl
2007-10-20, 04:56 AM
... i may need to rinse my mind after reading that post...

a detonating gut snake would indeed be awesome.

Yeril
2007-10-20, 10:50 AM
I love the skilled trait, because I like the idea of a necromancy filled village where manual labour is done very efficently, non-stop by Skilled Zombies/skeletons and the villagers live very lesiure filled lives.

Thinking about that..

a Skilled (profession [farming]) Skeleton would cost 50gp.

Each Skeleton has a +10 to farming, meaning on taking 10 they get 10gp a week. meaning in just over a month they are making a profit for the village.

But thats not all, Assuming one full day of work is 14 hours work 10 hours sleep/rest/whatever, skeletons are about 70% more efficient

so they get They get their (Check/2)*1.7 Gp a week. so 17gp. So by week 3, your making a profit on your worker. and how long does a skeleton last? they don't get sick, they don't starve, Their only real risk is Paladins attacking the village.

For a one time 50gp Investment, Turning in a profit in only 3 weeks, This is a preety nifty idea that could make a nice little village very well off.

DracoDei
2007-10-20, 03:55 PM
... i may need to rinse my mind after reading that post...

I assume you mean my post in the competition thread that stats out the gut snakes?

katarl
2007-10-22, 11:37 AM
small update, the society of deadwalkers, no longer a cult, but a school.

equipment and magic to come next, but there will be no core class, i decided the system was not enough to warrant it (it helps casters, it isn't a new system of magic). PrCs seem likely tho.

katarl
2007-10-23, 06:14 AM
a Skilled (profession [farming]) Skeleton would cost 50gp.

i keep getting a mental picture of a skeleton with a straw hat and a hoe tending his turnips now. its not too hard to envision an entire nation relying on this kind of slave labour (and incidentally, thats exactly what many deadwalkers stand for).

Profession works, but craft doesn't, perform works but won't be very good (most undead have a cha of 1). The logistics are a bit tricky- how much more work does an undead do? The living take breaks, sleep, leisure time, but with farming and other professions, how much extra will the undead produce with the added effort? (there's only so much you can do for your crop). In my campaign i may either double the produce, or keep it the same.

You can add skilled to any skill type except int, so it's probably one of the most versatile traits. It is assumed all of the knowledge involved is contained within the undead, even if it is mindless, and when told to 'farm' a certain patch of land with a certain amount of seed, will know what to do. Anything fancy will have to be commanded.

DracoDei
2007-10-23, 06:51 AM
While it is true that there is only so much you can do for a given field to increase the yield, you can simply decrease the number of undead doing the farming (or clear more land) until each undead is reasonably continuously occupied.

Vadin
2007-10-23, 02:35 PM
If we assume that the common medieval fantasy farmer is only using 2/3 of his land (letting the other third go wild and be replenished), then we can find the maximum possible produce (with no outside magical help and using the same farming techniques) for that amount of land by multiplying the original by 3/2. In one year, on that amount of land, 1.5 times as much food could potentially be produced. Of course, this saps the land of nutrients and is in the long run a bad idea when using only 1 crop.

If we can go a step further and consider that a society with a completely mechanized (undead) labor force would be fairly intelligent, then its not too much of a stretch to say the figured out crop rotation. This crop rotation means that every 3 years, the farmer won't have to stop farming and can produce 1.5 times as much food per year as could before, and he won't have to stop growing for a year to let the land be nourished.

So, in short, I'd say (at most, now) double the food production. They do have magic, after all. Failing 'magic', though, one and a half times as much seems a reasonable increase in food production for an industrialized or other sufficiently advanced society. The undead workforce is really only an indicator of how advanced these people are.

This has all been about the actual growing, mind you. When it came time to harvest these plants, they'd be done in record time. Same goes for seeding the ground and watering all this food.

Yeril
2007-10-23, 02:48 PM
http://www.purplemoon.com/Stickers/skeleton-farmer.jpg

Yeril
2007-10-23, 02:53 PM
Skilled would be a great trait if it could be taken more than once.

Skilled (Move Silently), Skilled (hide), Grace for some Sneaky Skeletons...

Skilled (Spot), Skilled (Listen) for some great Sentry Lookouts.

katarl
2007-10-24, 07:38 AM
Skilled would be a great trait if it could be taken more than once.

Agreed, i will make it so!

Maerok
2007-10-24, 08:14 AM
Now with the spellcasting traits, wouldn't it be better to make it an SLA that still requires material components, foci, and XP on occasion? Its a small nuance but having them actually go through the motions to cast a spell like a wizard does seems out of place.

katarl
2007-10-25, 01:37 PM
edit- just the one spell

katarl
2007-10-26, 10:40 AM
1000 views! minor changes made.

Yeril
2007-10-26, 11:10 AM
and 50 replys!

Maerok
2007-10-29, 12:10 PM
So what's on the agenda for updates?

smart thog
2007-11-01, 04:30 PM
I have a feat that works with this.

Cost effective necromancer.

By taking a bit of flesh, a pinch of marrow, and a dab of damed souls, you can reduce the cost in onyx you pay when making undead


prerequisite

Crospecrafter, ability to cast animate dead.

benefit

When ever you apply a corpsecrafter trait to an undead, it costs only 10 gp in onyx per HD per trait. When animating undead, it likewise only costs 10 gp in onyx per HD of the animated undead.




Now you may think this is overpowered, but when I was playing a evoker who used Bigby spells, I would just ask the rouge if he had any rubies. He would say yes, and charge me the minimum gp I needed to get the spell to work. then he would give me the money back. and the spells worked. Magic fails in comparison to economics.

katarl
2007-11-02, 03:50 AM
I made the cost 25xhd to allow traits to simply apply as a cost multiplier, to make calculating components really easy, but if you don't mind making the process a little more complicated, you can change the formulae with feats and stuff.

Since your feat only changes the base cost, it's fine, though i'm a bit leery of general feats that change the wording of spells.

How about Frugal Necromancy, or something other than 'cost-effective'?

last line- eh? you don't get material components back.

ForzaFiori
2007-11-02, 05:40 AM
best part about the undead farmers?

if someone comes to attack you, they'd be ALOT better for defending your town than the farmers they replaced.

Maerok
2007-11-02, 03:01 PM
Now, can we make an undead soldier as effective or comparable to a living one? That's always been the weak point of raising one's own unliving army... For any awesome boss you drop and decide to raise, it'll lose all its class levels. So a level 20 Druid becomes a 1 HD Skeleton or a 2 HD Zombie... In that case, you might as well start making friends with the living version. As it might end up, the skeleton/zombie versions will be superior to probably any NPC of 3nd level or less in an NPC class (and maybe some PC ones as well). With monsters it becomes more interesting though, especially with dragons.

Let's say for this test, we'll have a manticore (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/manticore.htm), a ghaele (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghaele.htm), a kraken (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/kraken.htm), and a 6th level Human Cleric. Each of these guys were picked because they have reasonable different approaches to combat, which require different necromantic strategies to make them good. However, 'we' are one necromancer; so what kind of collective build can we come up for our dark artist to maximize the potential of these four different canvases.

katarl
2007-11-02, 04:09 PM
That's an interesting thought- which is better? living or dead?

A 1st level warrior is cr 1/2, a skeleton warrior is cr 1/3 and a zombie is cr 1/2.

However, with corpsecrafting, just one trait will make them at least cr 1, as you increase the cr by 1/2 per trait, 1 per specialist trait.

I am currently working on my army of skeletal warriors, they will be more than a match for any living army. I plan on using orcs as the ideal- strong, stupid, and very plentiful.

Can't compare them to druid 20s or any high levelled characters, but they'll be far stronger than the bog standard GI.

Maerok
2007-11-02, 04:22 PM
So do you plan on posting the additional material now that it seems to have picked up again?

Cybren
2007-11-02, 04:29 PM
So, if i were a wizard who was in the process of becoming a lich, could I give myself these traits?

Vadin
2007-11-02, 05:13 PM
Were you a wizard in the process of becoming a lich, I'd use that as a segway for this little beastie I just drew up:

Lich Mount
Size/Type: Huge Undead
Hit Dice: 18d12+75 (291 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), burrow 10 ft.
Armor Class: 25 (-2 size, +1 Dex, +16 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 24
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+25
Attack: Bite +16 melee (2d10+9)
Full Attack: Bite +16 melee (2d10+9) and 2 claws +11 melee (2d6+4) and
Slam +6 melee (2d6+4)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: /
Special Qualities: DR 5/slashing, Immune to Turning and Rebuking
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +8, Will +11
Abilities: Str 29, Dex 15, Con -, Int 2, Wis 10, Cha 1
Skills: /
Feats: Toughness
Traits: Alacrity, Reserved (Specialist), Vicious (Bite), Durable (Specialist)
Challenge Rating: 10

The hideous and terrible beast before you was once a bulette, but now serves as a mount for a powerful lich king.

DracoDei
2007-11-02, 08:54 PM
Vadin, my personal advice: Show yourself the respect you deserve, repost you entry as a separate thread, and edit your above post to be a link to said thread. It will make your work easier to find in the archives and an individual entry, while still being linked to this thread for discussion. SORRY!, didn't realize it was based heavily on the material presented here (just a zombie at the core, right?)

Katarl: You going to let those perfectly good digestive tracts go to waste or you going to use my stuff (Gut Snakes, and Hopping Stomachs)...

Also, I am going to expand my series of "undead you can get out of just one corpse and still have enough left over for a skeleton" by doing one or both of the following mindless undead:
1.) Floating Lungs: Very low HD for their size, but maybe with some turn resistance. Shout based attacks and require that (or the Greater version) in their creation. Probably fly speed around 20 (Good) for most of them...
2.) Dark Hearts: As the seat of life energy (in most cultures), this becomes the purest seat of negative energy when corrupted into an Undead. Releases a pulse of negative energy every X rounds (scaling up as you go along) that acts like a Mass Inflict effect, although probably with the number of points, the frequency, and the the radius scaling with the size of the heart. Fly speeds start at 10 for ones made from medium creatures and go up from there.

So, which one grabs peoples interest more (I have started work on both)?

katarl
2007-11-03, 05:01 AM
So do you plan on posting the additional material now that it seems to have picked up again?

gah!


The hideous and terrible beast before you was once a bulette, but now serves as a mount for a powerful lich king.

That's quite a mount there, 18hd!

I know it's a zombie, but i've been wondering how many creatures you're able to fit inside a skeletal creature (assuming you reinforce the ribcage). My guess is the number that can ride it, so on a large (long) creature, that would usually be 1 medium creature. I plan on using ogre skeletons as prisoner management and general storage.


Katarl: You going to let those perfectly good digestive tracts go to waste or you going to use my stuff (Gut Snakes, and Hopping Stomachs)...

I wasn't aware you were offering them, okay, i'll c+P soon. The lungs sounds really cool. I want to fit them in my entrance hall...

Lyinginbedmon
2007-11-03, 05:25 AM
I know it's a zombie, but i've been wondering how many creatures you're able to fit inside a skeletal creature (assuming you reinforce the ribcage). My guess is the number that can ride it, so on a large (long) creature, that would usually be 1 medium creature. I plan on using ogre skeletons as prisoner management and general storage.

I'm sure that's a Flintlocke (http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/articles/650/650343p1.html)reference...

DracoDei
2007-11-03, 06:23 AM
I wasn't aware you were offering them, okay, i'll c+P soon.
Well, I don't post my homebrew here so people can just look at the pretty words on the screen... I LIKE getting my stuff play-tested(or at least played around with in the case of theoretical builds)... just... not an exclusive offer (in case you thought it was for some bizarre reason)

The lungs sounds really cool. I want to fit them in my entrance hall...
That is one vote for lungs! {Makes a hack-mark on a small chalk-board}

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2007-11-03, 09:45 AM
For other interesting undead in that line, there's already the Brain-inna-jar, from Libris Mortis: Book of Bad Latin.

Maybe one for the eyes? Zappy beholder rays!

I really like the hearts. They are so creepy.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-11-03, 10:10 AM
Perhaps some things for the less offensive or alarming organs, like the gall bladder and the appendix. Parasites and spies!

DracoDei
2007-11-03, 11:16 AM
Bit of a rough draft, but the lungs are up. (I actually posted them accidentally while just trying to check the formatting etc, but since they were up I decided to go with it).
The idea of eyes had indeed occurred to me...
Gall bladders and appendices just seem silly to me...

katarl
2007-11-04, 11:58 AM
Has anyone used the trait system in their games? Refining the mechanics of these is a main priority, are there any thoughts on the balance?

Lyinginbedmon
2007-11-04, 02:15 PM
Bit of a rough draft, but the lungs are up. (I actually posted them accidentally while just trying to check the formatting etc, but since they were up I decided to go with it).
The idea of eyes had indeed occurred to me...
Gall bladders and appendices just seem silly to me...

That's exactly what the enemy would think! They could find their way into the target and act as spies/torture devices.

For example, the appendix. In the normal human body, it extracts poisons from the waste. If we had an undead appendix agent inside someone, it could be used to poison them at will. The gall bladder aids in digestion, so it could gradually starve a target.

And, of course, they could control them.

Lizardfolk Lich
2007-11-04, 06:40 PM
I don't understand. Is it a feat, and if so, is it a feat tree? Or is it just some form of enhanced necromancy known only to those of whom seek its secrets?

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2007-11-04, 07:29 PM
We're using this in my RL campaign. We just started though, and I shan't have any feedback until the 20th or so.

mostlyharmful
2007-11-04, 07:47 PM
Question, it says you can "apply these traits to undead you create or animate using necromancy spells." Does that mean that undead you create by other means can't have these applied to them. Such as spawn abilities, ritual creations or other forms of undead. Can you for instance use these to boost your creation of your phylactery when you turn yourself into a lich? Howabout when you use negative levels to kill someone and turn them into a wraith?

Likewise some forms of more powerful undead, such as those made with Greater Create Undead may come off rather overpowered with some of these, regeneration and immunity to turning and effective foresight for example really kick up the average Morgh or Nightcrawler, or Mummy or whatever, so do they add to the CR?

They seem to work really well with animate dead, so much so that any necromancer I make in the future will try to get them. But they bend Create Undead and seem to really push Greater Create Undead, even if they can't be used in other methods of undead creation

katarl
2007-11-05, 03:24 AM
I don't understand. Is it a feat, and if so, is it a feat tree? Or is it just some form of enhanced necromancy known only to those of whom seek its secrets?

It's a feat tree, and it replaces corpsecrafting in a campaign.


We're using this in my RL campaign. We just started though, and I shan't have any feedback until the 20th or so.

cool, hope it's useful


Does that mean that undead you create by other means can't have these applied to them.

This is correct, just like normal corpsecrafter, it won't help you spawn. Lichhood is not a necromancy spell, so it wouldn't work.


Likewise some forms of more powerful undead, such as those made with Greater Create Undead may come off rather overpowered with some of these,

yes, though anything you create with these spells is not controlled anyway, so i don't know why you'd bother.


so do they add to the CR?

yes, for now we're using +1/2 for traits and +1cr for specialist.

Maerok
2007-11-05, 02:41 PM
yes, though anything you create with these spells is not controlled anyway, so i don't know why you'd bother.

The power to create, but not the wisdom to control. Typical... And any mean old DM would turn that abomination right around and strike you down. :smalleek:

katarl
2007-11-06, 09:36 AM
I'm sure it won't escape anybody that you can create undead with the sorcerous (animate dead) trait, use their hd as well, and have many minions. I plan to create an army using this, combined with the discharge undead spell.


Ferocious

Your undead don't go down easy.

Benefit- undead no longer dies at 0hp, instead it is staggered for a number of rounds equal to half its hd (round up), before dying. Dealing damage to the undead when it is below 0hp will kill it. If for whatever reason, the undead gains enough hp to increase its total above 0hp, it is no longer staggered. this trait cannot be applied to undead with the specialist trait regenerative.

creating the undead in a desecrated area increases the duration of the effect by 1 round.

Specialist- undead is no longer instantly killed if it takes damage while beyond 0hp. it will function until the duration is up, or is destroyed by turning or other means.

clearly this trait is meant to be combined with basic regenerative and other healing, for the zombie that just won't stay down.

smart thog
2007-11-06, 03:09 PM
last line- eh? you don't get material components back.

No, But my friend gave me my gold back.

dyslexicfaser
2007-11-06, 03:20 PM
So, basically, your friend paid for your material components?

By the way - interesting new Corpsecrafter, katarl. Could I suggest one of the PrCs be a continuation of the necromancer cleric, i.e. levels add to turn/rebuke as cleric levels?

DracoDei
2007-11-06, 03:48 PM
That's exactly what the enemy would think! They could find their way into the target and act as spies/torture devices.

For example, the appendix. In the normal human body, it extracts poisons from the waste. If we had an undead appendix agent inside someone, it could be used to poison them at will. The gall bladder aids in digestion, so it could gradually starve a target.

And, of course, they could control them.

That might begin to make sense if we first posited the existence of anesthetic magic... otherwise "find their way INTO the target" is such a tall order it makes Colossal+ dragons feel short standing next to it.... well... ok, maybe if you KOed them somehow you rolled a really high Heal check, and they threw a curative spell on them to scarlessly heal up the incision before they woke up you could pull it off... but really, there are probably better ways of accomplishing something like that.

dyslexicfaser
2007-11-09, 12:17 AM
You might wake up in a bathtub filled with ice in (insert generic magic city here) after a night of heavy drinking, and find that someone had taken out your kidney - and given you a dark kidney of the damned!

Hey Katarl, what about a trait that keeps them well-preserved, so you can't tell they're undead? They could pass themselves off as the living, maybe. Consummate spies. I dunno, guess it wouldn't be worth it compared to stuff like regeneration and suchlike.

DracoDei
2007-11-09, 03:06 AM
That might be a good trait... Two or three things I can think of that come close to that.
1.) Craft Wonderous Item + Gentle Repose
2.) Vampire/Vampire Spawn Perhaps with Hat of Disguise
3.) Empty Skin + Hat of Disguise

katarl
2007-11-09, 06:17 AM
I didn't include a trait to preserve undead, because that would emulate a spell that already exists (gentle repose), the same reason there's no trait to make undead intelligent (awaken undead).

Skilled (disguise) might do the job, though it would only be +5 total with most undead. Unguent of timelessness is also useful, it slows the decaying process right down.

smart thog
2007-11-09, 09:16 PM
So, basically, your friend paid for your material components?

No. We had just looted the temple of the red one, and found his hoard. among other things, 500 1 gp rubies. My friend would then sell me the rubies for 500 gp each, then gave back the money. since I paid 500 gp for the rubies, it worked.

dyslexicfaser
2007-11-09, 10:25 PM
Okay, either you aren't understanding me, or I'm not understanding you, but...

Your rogue has 500 gp in gems. You give him 500gp for his gems, an equal trade. Then you destroy his gems to cast the spell. Then he gives you 500gp.

To me, that says that that rogue just payed your 500gp for you.

DracoDei
2007-11-10, 01:06 AM
He paid 500 gp for a ruby normally only worth 1 gp... but since he PAID 500 gp for it, the GM let him cast the spell as if the ruby was actually worth 500 gp. The GM was an idiot in my opinion.

Zeful
2007-11-10, 06:11 PM
He paid 500 gp for a ruby normally only worth 1 gp... but since he PAID 500 gp for it, the GM let him cast the spell as if the ruby was actually worth 500 gp. The GM was an idiot in my opinion.

The lesson here folks is that just because something costs a certain amount doesn't mean it's worth that amount. Think about your computer. It probably cost $500-$1000 to get yet the worth of the individual materials that make it up is maybe only worth 1/10 of that. The rest of the price is in the name emblazened on it.

DracoDei
2007-11-10, 11:35 PM
The name? 50% at MOST and probably much less than that... the WORK that goes into PROCESSING the materials, and ORGANIZING that processing, and delivering the finished product... that is what makes up most of the cost.

katarl
2007-11-11, 04:55 AM
Please don't hijack my thread. Take this conversation elsewhere.

Dante & Vergil
2007-11-13, 06:41 PM
Well I actually really like this. I have seen this at wizards.com which is how I remember you, katarl.

Mewtarthio
2007-11-13, 08:22 PM
Finally, the necromancers get a bit of creativity!

Two questions:

What sort of classes are good for the Skilled Mastery trait?
I'm almost afraid to ask, but where did you get all those necromancer pinups?


EDIT: So long as I'm posting, I should probably point out a potential problem with the "Cerebral" trait. Namely, PLAs work differently from SLAs when you boost their effective caster/manifester levels. The problem is that PLAs start out fully augmented. For instance, say I want to make a 20-HD, intelligent, telekinetic undead (say, from making a skeleton and Awakening it). I give him the TK maneuver PLA (fourth-level power) at ML 20. This is like the "combat maneuver" function of telekinesis, except the undead also gets a +13 bonus to all maneuvers. Or, heck, let's go with a mindless 20-HD skeleton and just give him a second-level power, for which I don't even need mastery: energy missile. He's dealing 20d6 damage with his missiles (20d6 + 20 for fire and cold, 20d6 - 20 and bypasses hardness for sonic), but more importantly he gets either a +17 or +8 bonus to the DC, depending on whether or not you think the augmentation line of energy missile is a typo. A fully-augmented ML 20 power cost slightly more than a theoretical tenth-level power.

I'd recomment making the "pseudo-caster" traits take a set effective caster level.

katarl
2007-11-14, 04:49 AM
Well I actually really like this. I have seen this at wizards.com which is how I remember you, katarl.

:smallbiggrin: i much prefer corpsecrafting here.


What sort of classes are good for the Skilled Mastery trait?

The rogues sneak attack, clerics turn undead and the warlocks eldritch blast are all reasonable choices, though the trait really does seem to lack power compared to the other traits, i may have to change it to 1/2 hd class features.


I'm almost afraid to ask, but where did you get all those necromancer pinups?

I got the pictures you see on Photobucket, from searches for necromancy, undead etc.


So long as I'm posting, I should probably point out a potential problem with the "Cerebral" trait. Namely, PLAs work differently from SLAs when you boost their effective caster/manifester levels. The problem is that PLAs start out fully augmented.

Ouch! I'll change the wording so it is not augmented at all.

smart thog
2007-11-14, 10:20 AM
Please don't hijack my thread. Take this conversation elsewhere.

Sorry. To make up for starting this I will post a new trait.


Musical
Somehow, though it comes from the soul, music is great when preformed by the soulless

basic

Undead with this trait may use bardic music as a bard whose level equals 1/4 the undead's hit dice. this bardic music can effect other undead.

Specialist

as the basic trait but the bards level is 1/2 the undeads hit dice.

I await greatful dead jokes

DracoDei
2007-11-14, 10:51 AM
Hmmm... Perhaps have the basic level also specifically allow them to influence undead with bardic music... or if you want to nerf it further make it so the basic level allows them to BE influenced by bardic music (thus you would have to give it to every undead you create in a group to be really effective), and make it so the Master version allows them to influence any undead with it.

I think the appropriate feat is called "Requiem".

smart thog
2007-11-20, 02:19 PM
This would look sou weird. I actually fought these kinds of things when I waws fighting a sublime cord who was into necromancry.

smart thog
2007-11-23, 05:53 PM
Is anybody else going to make any more traits? I want to see some more.

Co-Smet-Or
2008-04-21, 06:51 PM
I like this idea, but mostly am posting here because Slayer_9999 told me not to.

katarl
2008-04-22, 04:18 AM
I like this idea, but mostly am posting here because Slayer_9999 told me not to.

eh? why would he say that?


Is anybody else going to make any more traits? I want to see some more.

I did write a few more, but i lost interest in corpsecrafting a while ago, moving on to other projects, my degree for example.:smallfrown:

Stycotl
2008-04-22, 09:54 PM
eh? why would he say that?

probably because it had been dead for a while. unless you're adding new content, i don't really see the decency in disturbing sleeping posts. it's rude.

MelkorsHalo
2008-04-23, 02:42 AM
pshaw. how is school more important than necromancy? unless it's a necromancy school.. ah, if only.

katarl
2008-04-23, 02:48 AM
if only...