Changing the party "tank" roll forever

[moonfly7]

So, before I start, I need to ask a question, vehicles are tools right? Because I checked the phb, and it seemed to say that, and I checked online, and it said that, and my DM is pretty sure they are too.
I ask this so you don't tell me what comes next is me bending or breaking the rules. If I messed up, I just didn't know vehicles weren't tools.
Anyways, I was looking at the warforged race. I saw envoy. I like envoy, I've played a few, and the integrated tool is nice. It gives you expertise with the tool as well.
But after rereading it, I was buying equipment, and seriously read the tool rules.
And I confirmed it anywhere I could.

Vehicles are tools.
Warforged can have one tool integrated into there body.

I suddenly wanted to play a warforged named "Tank" who was a tank. But not just a high AC heavy hitting monster. No, no I just realised that I could play a warforged with a built in wagon as his tool (wagon replacing his legs hopefully, leaving head and torso on top) with a heavy crossbow and crossbow mastery he could be an actual tank. Especially if I was allowed to make the wagon wheels treads.

Note that I may never play this character. I probably won't. But darn it if the idea is too good to not think about!

[Kane0]

Surely you mean your next character is going to be a transformer. That's the only way I read that.

[Damon_Tor]

I think I would limit it to tools that can reasonably fit inside the warforged. So you could name him "Unicyle" or maybe "Rickshaw". "Aircraft Carrier" is probably over the line.

[moonfly7]

I think I would limit it to tools that can reasonably fit inside the warforged. So you could name him "Unicyle" or maybe "Rickshaw". "Aircraft Carrier" is probably over the line.

I mean, tecniqually, no rule actually stops me. It's ridiculous. But tevhniwually legal. So transformer tank is ok. Although I think he constantly is stuck in wagon mode.

[Kane0]

Right so what are some medium or smaller vehicles we could use for this? Bicycle, sled, cart, kayak...

[Callin]

Ornithopter! I swear I am wanting to steal this idea.

[Trickery]

Make a warforged "warship" monk. People think they're getting onto a warship, but it's actually a sentient creature that can attack them with any part of itself for Monk unarmed strike damage. Bonus points: it's a shadow monk and, at night, can suddenly shift 60 feet in any direction and screw with people, or suddenly turn invisible like you're playing a video game and the terrain hasn't loaded in yet. Areas of silence and pitch-black darkness randomly pop up all over the warship.

[Kane0]

Haunted warship!

[JackPhoenix]

The rules don't remove the weight of the tool. If you can still move with the 400 lb of encumberance from the wagon, go ahead.

[Kane0]

I'm sure we can fudge some carry capacity rules from somewhere, pulling a cart quintuples your carry capacity right?

[JackPhoenix]

I'm sure we can fudge some carry capacity rules from somewhere, pulling a cart quintuples your carry capacity right?

Nope. You can pull double your max encumberance, but you won't be pulling anything if the vehicle in question is part of you.

[SLOTHRPG95]

Nope. You can pull double your max encumberance, but you won't be pulling anything if the vehicle in question is part of you.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that your own body mass doesn't count toward your carrying capacity/encumbrance, so actually you're in the clear. You could even have a Carriage (weighing 600 lb.) integrated, or a Dromon (weighing 100+ tons) if you were going for a naval tank. And just going by RAW, you wouldn't have a problem moving around. But this is why just going by RAW is silly. If you're a Warforged Emissary with a Galley built in, you shouldn't still be able to walk at all, let alone at a regular speed.

[Lunali]

Vehicle proficiency is a tool proficiency, but there are no vehicles in the list of tools, at best you could probably have reins as your integrated tools. In a similar case, you can have smith's tools integrated, but that doesn't mean you have a portable forge, just that you have the tools necessary to use one.

[moonfly7]

So, obviously issues exist. In no way shape or form is a warforged with a carriage gonna be easy to use. He's gotta find a way to go mobile (if we won't let him move 30 feet with his wheels) and will never stealth. Ever.
You need horses to pull him in carriage mode. You would need to repair your teammate when he takes damage meant for the vehicle, stuff like that.

If your a boat, there is no way to ever go on land unless you remove the boat. This concept is gonna be ridiculously useless in a lot of ways if I, as a DM ever even allowed it. But Id also still let it happen, because loopholes found by players deserve to be exploited, in my opinion, so long as they don't truly ruin a game or get to abused.

In the end, Id say vehicular warforged can't move unless the vehicle is relatively small (kayak, bike, rickshaw, etc) but of they're a boat, they got a sail, they can use that, if theyre a cart, they need horses or something to pull them. So yeah, I'd allow a cart-forged, but you better be aware how much that hurts mobility and doing most things.

On the other hand, as a player, I wouldn't care so long as I could be a living boat or tank, I'd try to work around my issues best as I could. Because, it's just way to funny and awesome to give up.

[Lysimarchos]

The rules don't remove the weight of the tool. If you can still move with the 400 lb of encumberance from the wagon, go ahead.

Buy some oxen to pull you

[JackPhoenix]

Buy some oxen to pull you

Ah, but you're a creature, so the oxen would have to grapple you, and they can't do that, as grapple requires free hand!

[SLOTHRPG95]

Ah, but you're a creature, so the oxen would have to grapple you, and they can't do that, as grapple requires free hand!

Okay, but as for a more serious concern: a fireball and a few attacks, and you are rendered immobile (and also damaged by the fireball). As soon as you start facing enemies with moderately decent AoE options, you'll often end up in this sort of situation.

[Kane0]

But on the flipside, you provide great cover!

[JackPhoenix]

Okay, but as for a more serious concern: a fireball and a few attacks, and you are rendered immobile (and also damaged by the fireball). As soon as you start facing enemies with moderately decent AoE options, you'll often end up in this sort of situation.

Not so! AoE spells generally affect creatures and objects that aren't worn or carried. I'm not sure if the integrated tool counts as part of the creature or carried object, but either way, Fireball would do nothing special to the wagon.

I dunno if I should've made the last two posts in blue, but it's RAW....

[SLOTHRPG95]

Not so! AoE spells generally affect creatures and objects that aren't worn or carried. I'm not sure if the integrated tool counts as part of the creature or carried object, but either way, Fireball would do nothing special to the wagon.

I dunno if I should've made the last two posts in blue, but it's RAW....

No, but the oxen'll die.

[AdAstra]

I remember this was broached a while ago in one of my groups. Wagon wheels would be far too large to integrate into a humanoid sized-robot. Even bicycle wheels are too big to work. The obvious solution is that your warforged just has integrated heelies and people can pull them along by the hands. Useful if you want to rest while traveling, or just for the prestige of having heelies on your DnD character.

[Laserlight]

The Sailor background lists "Tool Proficiencies: Navigator’s tools, vehicles (water)" and the Soldier background has "Tool Proficiencies: One type o f gaming set, vehicles (land)". Vehicles are listed as a special item with variable cost and weight at the bottom of the Tools shopping list. So...it would appear that vehicles are tools.

My new goal: start at L1 as a canoe and amass enough gold to become a warforged ship of the line.

[Zetakya]

My new goal: start at L1 as a canoe and amass enough gold to become a warforged ship of the line.

With your conventional Warforged body as the ships' figurehead?

[Chronos]

I was all set to nitpick the typo in the thread title, but no, you do want your tank to roll. Well played (even if it was unintentional).

As for whether to allow it, I invoke both Rule of Narrative and Rule of Cool. We've all seen stories with a magical or technological ship, with a portion of a human-ish body as an avatar to interact with the crew. Of course, this would interfere with a lot of ordinary activities, just because there will be a lot of places your body won't fit. That's enough, in my mind, to balance it.

[jaappleton]

Yeah this actually is a thing that happened in my Strahd game.

But we also managed to take Strahd, which is purely gothic horror, and turn it more into the Addams Family, so....

[Arkhios]

Warforged Envoy having a vehicle as their integrated tool isn't exactly a new thing. When someone brought this up to Keith Baker himself, afterwards Keith himself told he's playing a Warforged Envoy (forgot the class) who could turn himself to a cart and back. If that's not a "green light" or "go for it", then I don't know what is. :smallcool:

[moonfly7]

I remember this was broached a while ago in one of my groups. Wagon wheels would be far too large to integrate into a humanoid sized-robot. Even bicycle wheels are too big to work. The obvious solution is that your warforged just has integrated heelies and people can pull them along by the hands. Useful if you want to rest while traveling, or just for the prestige of having heelies on your DnD character.
I....I want this!

I was all set to nitpick the typo in the thread title, but no, you do want your tank to roll. Well played (even if it was unintentional).

As for whether to allow it, I invoke both Rule of Narrative and Rule of Cool. We've all seen stories with a magical or technological ship, with a portion of a human-ish body as an avatar to interact with the crew. Of course, this would interfere with a lot of ordinary activities, just because there will be a lot of places your body won't fit. That's enough, in my mind, to balance it.
it was an accident, but I'm keeping it now

Warforged Envoy having a vehicle as their integrated tool isn't exactly a new thing. When someone brought this up to Keith Baker himself, afterwards Keith himself told he's playing a Warforged Envoy (forgot the class) who could turn himself to a cart and back. If that's not a "green light" or "go for it", then I don't know what is. :smallcool:

yep. yep yep. definitely a green light.

so, could you add modifications to your vehicle? like, mount stuff on top of the cart? or perhaps have spiked oars for your boat? Or perhaps mount a ballista on the deck of your ship, you cant shoot it alone, but you can use your action to aid.....

[Nagog]

I came to this thread fully expecting an optomized caster build and folks back on the wagon of "Martials are useless cuz casters". Instead I found an entirely different wagon, which then rolled a natural 20 to seduce me into the concept of using this 100% ridiculous yet amazing and RAW concept as my next character. This is so beautiful.

[NNescio]

Be a Druid. Now you can transform into animals too! Beast Wars a-go-go!

Autoforges, transform and roll out! Maxiforges, maximize!

[moonfly7]

Be a Druid. Now you can transform into animals too! Beast Wars a-go-go!

Autoforges, transform and roll out! Maxiforges, maximize!

Ok. Ok this is beautiful.

When the druid becomes a hawk, and then ends wildshape, and a 400 pound wagon forged just false right on the orc horde.

[Whiskeyjack8044]

The way I'd rule this as a Dm is letting the Warforge turn into a motor. They would have to get a specially built Wagon that they could hitch themself to. I imagine it looking like a carriage with a figurehead on the front, but the figurehead is the Warforged. Also, I think Decent into Avernus is adding motorcycles, so I think its reasonable for a WF to turn into one.