View Full Version : Would a Gestalt Bard/Wizard be pretty awesome or is just me?

2007-10-12, 10:40 AM
I mean, not ridiculously overpowered awesome, but still fairly good for non-prestige classing, core-only gestalt build. It'd have focus mostly on Int and Cha, with Dex and Con after it. Intelligence + Bard gives loads of skill points (Bardic Knack would help here), large amounts of spells and nice synergy flavour-wise as well.

Or am I just totally wrong?

2007-10-12, 10:47 AM
A bard, becoming a wizard? Are you mad? Do you know how much studying those finger-wavers have to do? You'd have to be in all night, reading and studying and not going out to the tavern. Nuts to that! Got to dash, I have a gig at that bar with the really attractive maid.

A wizard, becoming a bard? Are you mad? Why would anyone want to exchange the potential to rewrite the laws of the universe with the ability to sing? Really, what use is singing? As for their "magic"! It's an abomination! No, no, no! Magic and music just don't mix. Now leave me be, I spells to study.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-12, 10:48 AM
Mostly you, really. The aren't big advantages for doing this, since you won't get many new spells from bard, or many ways to use bardic knack without stopping casting spells. I'd rather factotum and get a jack of all trades, master of wizardry, if I were you.

Kurald Galain
2007-10-12, 10:49 AM
I'd say a sorcerer/bard, or beguiler/wizard, is more awesome both in fluff and in crunch.

2007-10-12, 11:54 AM
Factotum//Wizard is certainly sick in terms of SAD and the ability to do anything with it.

Regarding Bard//Wizard, I can see one good thing about it: Going into Sublime Chord//Wizard. Admittedly, a bit redundant, but you get Song of Arcane Power, which will help your wizard abilities considerably. +4 CL is a pretty big bonus, even if you have to spend a round and a bardic music usage to get it.

But you still lose the ability to cast in light armor, which is part of the point of a bard. Your bardic spells aren't going to help so much compared to your wizard ones. Your BAB is still not usable, especially without that armor (and especially if you go Sublime Chord, and given that you're not going to focus on combat stats and will have low HD.) None of the other things you can get from Bard, aside from Sublime Chord's Song of Arcane power, are really going to help the wizard abilities... while the wizard abilities will more replace the bard abilities whenever you want to use them, rather than working with them.

I think that if you're talking core only, Rogue//Wizard would be better in almost every respect. What useful things does Bard//Wizard get that Rogue//Wizard doesn't? Bardic spellcasting and bardic music aren't important to a wizard, since Wizard spellcasting can do much better.

2007-10-12, 01:29 PM
it depends on how you build the bard, but there isnt a whole lot of synergy. WHen using bardic music, you cant cast spells. The helpful songs require you to be rather close to your allies and thats not where you want to be as a wizard.

For the most part you will be doing the wizard/bard spell casting in combat, and doing the bardish thing outside.

HOWEVER, if your group isnt all about optimizers with a powerlevel over 9000, id say you could go for it, especially if you have a good backgroup or such with it. A wizard knowledge monkey with bardic knowledge is pretty hot.

Make sure to get Mithril and twilight enchanted armor so you can wear light armor without a ASF on your wizard side.

2007-10-12, 02:25 PM
I would say Sorcerer//Bard is better, because you now have less of a limit on the number of spells you know (on both sides), and a huge number of spells per day. Then synnergy is nice too. Maky Int your second stat, and you won't be lagging in skills much.

Wizard//Beguiler has its advantages, but there is personally too much overlap for me. A bit too many spells really, not enough actions.

Wizard//Factotum is amazing. SAD jack of all trades, enough said.

Something I personally like is Bard//Spellthief. It isn't amazing, and you don't gain much, but the flavor is fun to roleplay. Sorcerer//Spellthief is, of course, mechanically better.

Nowhere Girl
2007-10-12, 02:31 PM
Monk/Samurai FTW!

I had to say it. :smalltongue:

2007-10-12, 03:12 PM
Wizard//Factotum. Because the only thing Wizards didn't have enough of was standard actions.

Fax Celestis
2007-10-12, 03:12 PM
Wizard//Factotum. Because the only thing Wizards didn't have enough of was standard actions.

Pretty much, yup.

2007-10-12, 06:27 PM
The fluff is still cool enough that I can ignore the builds ineffectiveness. Thanks for the help, though.

I did think Factotum//Wizard would be better, but I don't have Dungeonscape, so yeah.
BTW, what is the fluff on the factotum? Why is it a factotum can do what he can?

2007-10-12, 07:28 PM
Cunning Surge (or was it cunning brilliance), 8th level ability: Spend 3 'inspiration' points to get an extra standard action. No limit of uses per round. You only get about 10 at level 20, but there's an awesome Faerun feat called Font of Inspiration, which adds more.

You also get Int to AC while wearing light armor or none, int to attack rolls and damage rolls, every single skill as a class skill, and other goodies.

2007-10-12, 08:27 PM
Fluffwise, you're not really a "trained" anything, you're a "practised" dilettante, with a habit of sudden bursts of inspiration. You're not brilliant at anything, but due to your wandering mind you can make a good stab at everything. By "spending" some of the "inspiration" that you get from/during every encounter you can gain a sudden boost in your talents in a specific field.