Wyvern venom

[Yuki Akuma]

So, in the campaign I'm running, the PCs just killed a wyvern and want to harvest its venom. Wyvern venom is a DC 15 Con save to take half damage, and deals 7d6 poison damage, which is... quite a lot stronger than basic poison. Does anyone have any advice for how to handle this?

I don't want them to get nothing, because I think it's a fairly smart thing to do. I've also established that the wyvern was fairly old, so I can justify knocking down the potency a bit.

[nickl_2000]

So, in the campaign I'm running, the PCs just killed a wyvern and want to harvest its venom. Wyvern venom is a DC 15 Con save to take half damage, and deals 7d6 poison damage, which is... quite a lot stronger than basic poison. Does anyone have any advice for how to handle this?

I don't want them to get nothing, because I think it's a fairly smart thing to do. I've also established that the wyvern was fairly old, so I can justify knocking down the potency a bit.

If that is to powerful, have the process of extracting the venom from the dead wyvern reduce it's potency. Maybe it is to thick or thin to apply to a weapon normally and the PC will have to dilute it to get it to stick properly. Or maybe the poison degrades when it has left the wyvern's body. Or give them full potency poison, but make it so they are only able to get one dosage out.

[Nhorianscum]

As it turns out there is a really good reason poison is resisted/does-jack-all against a truly staggering amount of the monster manual.

I say let them have the dose full power.

[Pelle]

As long as it is just a limited number of doses, don't worry about it. Another option to limit it is to say that it deteriorate over time, and thus can't be saved forever.

[SirGraystone]

As someone already said the venom do have to be mix with something probably some kind of oil so it can be apply to a weapon which would lower the damage but I would let the player choose how powerful he want to make it. Give him a pool of dice, let say since the base damage is 7d6, that you let him extract 3 doses from the dead wyvern then he get a pool of 21 dice to divide in how many poisoned oil he want, maximum damage of 3d6. So he can make 7 doses of 3d6 or 21 doses of 1d6 or any mix he prefer.

[Nhorianscum]

As long as it is just a limited number of doses, don't worry about it. Another option to limit it is to say that it deteriorate over time, and thus can't be saved forever.

This is a slippery slope of argument that leads to the PC's establishing a farm. By a farm I mean a dirty shed full of wyverns with immovable rods shoved through their limbs with an automated milking staff. Don't judge my fetish.

Or the PC's just hit 9th level, get fabricate, and have an effectively unlimited supply because wyvern venom exists on this plane. Bathtubs of it. Don't judge my fetish.

(The earliest place we can get wyvern venom in a module is 1st level)

That said, this is a horrificly illegal substance, and again no-worries, unless there's a grave cleric or a Wish->Hallow user on deck poison is very hit-or-miss. Dealing either ludicrous chunks of damage (which is fun), meh-whatever damage (meh ), or my favorite, it does nothing and the PC's begin panicking when something that is not normally resistant is outright immune (Used sparingly, with good timing, this is hilarious).

-------

Alternately, the answer of "No, I don't want poison in my game" is valid.

[OgataiKhan]

Or the PC's just hit 9th level, get fabricate, and have an effectively unlimited supply because wyvern venom exists on this plane.

How? Don't you need the raw materials to fabricate something?

[Erys]

So, in the campaign I'm running, the PCs just killed a wyvern and want to harvest its venom. Wyvern venom is a DC 15 Con save to take half damage, and deals 7d6 poison damage, which is... quite a lot stronger than basic poison. Does anyone have any advice for how to handle this?

I don't want them to get nothing, because I think it's a fairly smart thing to do. I've also established that the wyvern was fairly old, so I can justify knocking down the potency a bit.

IIRC its a DC 20 nature check to get one dose of poison from a critter.

Odds are he won't get much, so let him enjoy any amount he can muster.

[Nhorianscum]

How? Don't you need the raw materials to fabricate something?

Ah yes. The hard to find components of venom...

Like....

Or....

I'm blanking. Only magic items require DM fiat ingredient's by RAW. Everything else is ambiguous and assumed to be at-cost unless you're on a giant pile of wood and want a bridge. Then yeah sure, free.

The spell is open enough to be "some FMA bullsheez" as it's essentially just crafting any non-magical substance at a hyperaccelerated pace. We're just also required to pony up the cost-of-creation for anything we want to make where resources are not abundant.

As always DM fiat is in play but in this case the fiat is "Hey DM can I learn this spell and actually cast the damn thing?".

--------

Let's assume that wyvern poison is a magic item (It's not). We need a schematic to craft. We have a dead wyvern with the organs that create this along with a PC capable of making a DC20 survival check. We can make the poison.

-----------

Again. If we don't want to allow a thing because reasons. We just outright say so. Everything else is just the bad kind of rules lawyering and it encourages even more creative player lawyering. Not a good arms race to be in when the end result is a friggin wyvern milking factory.

---------

It's just so much simpler to discuss these things out-of-game in an open, reasonable, and adult-like manner. While of course letting the folks playing the hobby for fun... have fun.

[OgataiKhan]

Ah yes. The hard to find components of venom...

Like....

Or....

I'm blanking. Only magic items require DM fiat ingredient's by RAW. Everything else is ambiguous and assumed to be at-cost unless you're on a giant pile of wood and want a bridge. Then yeah sure, free.

The spell is open enough to be "some FMA bullsheez" as it's essentially just crafting any non-magical substance at a hyperaccelerated pace. We're just also required to pony up the cost-of-creation for anything we want to make where resources are not abundant.

As always DM fiat is in play but in this case the fiat is "Hey DM can I learn this spell and actually cast the damn thing?".

--------

Let's assume that wyvern poison is a magic item (It's not). We need a schematic to craft. We have a dead wyvern with the organs that create this along with a PC capable of making a DC20 survival check. We can make the poison.

-----------

Again. If we don't want to allow a thing because reasons. We just outright say so. Everything else is just the bad kind of rules lawyering and it encourages even more creative player lawyering. Not a good arms race to be in when the end result is a friggin wyvern milking factory.

---------

It's just so much simpler to discuss these things out-of-game in an open, reasonable, and adult-like manner. While of course letting the folks playing the hobby for fun... have fun.

I don't think you have read the spell description. It is quite clear: "You convert raw materials into products of the same material. For example, you can fabricate a wooden bridge from a clump of trees, a rope from a patch of hemp, and clothes from flax or wool.
Choose raw materials that you can see within range. You can fabricate a Large or smaller object (contained within a 10-foot cube, or eight connected 5-foot cubes), given a sufficient quantity of raw material."

This doesn't apply to magic items, which cannot be created or transmuted at all by the spell, this applies to every legitimate use of the spell. It doesn't just create something from nothing, or from gold.

Moreover, this is by no means "rules lawyering": it is literally how the spell works, RAW and RAI.

[RedMage125]

So, in the campaign I'm running, the PCs just killed a wyvern and want to harvest its venom. Wyvern venom is a DC 15 Con save to take half damage, and deals 7d6 poison damage, which is... quite a lot stronger than basic poison. Does anyone have any advice for how to handle this?

I don't want them to get nothing, because I think it's a fairly smart thing to do. I've also established that the wyvern was fairly old, so I can justify knocking down the potency a bit.

I would first of all rule that a PC needs to have proficiency in a Poisoner's Kit, or he risks poisoning himself when harvesting the venom.

Then you could make it a Dexterity check (add proficiency if proficient in a poisoner's kit), DC 15 for one dose. Beating this check by 4 or more nets an additional dose for every 4 points the check was beaten by. miss the check by 5 or more, and the supply is ruined (and the PC is poisoned if he was not proficient).

[Nhorianscum]

I don't think you have read the spell description. It is quite clear: "You convert raw materials into products of the same material. For example, you can fabricate a wooden bridge from a clump of trees, a rope from a patch of hemp, and clothes from flax or wool.
Choose raw materials that you can see within range. You can fabricate a Large or smaller object (contained within a 10-foot cube, or eight connected 5-foot cubes), given a sufficient quantity of raw material."

This doesn't apply to magic items, which cannot be created or transmuted at all by the spell, this applies to every legitimate use of the spell. It doesn't just create something from nothing, or from gold.

Moreover, this is by no means "rules lawyering": it is literally how the spell works, RAW and RAI.

Well yes. As stated you need the materials.

For practical intents and purposes this means gold to buy sufficient raw materials for the task at hand unless we're sat atop a mound of wood and want a bridge.

[DwarfFighter]

I am curious: If a character harvests poison from a venomous creature, does each dose deal as much damage as a natural attack by the creature?

I imagine a wyvern would happily inject you with a soda-can's worth of poison, but you'd have a hard time applying the same amount on a blow dart or even a knife... So toning down the effect of poison effect in this case would not be out of order?

-DF

[RedMage125]

It should do what it is listed as in the DMG, page 258.

[JackPhoenix]

RAW rule is DC 20 Int (Nature) or Poisoner's Kit proficiency check to get one dose. Failing means no poison is harvested, failing by 5 or more means you poison yourself.

Poison is one-use item, 1/4 of monster manual is immune to it, and it can still be resisted. It is fine. Fireball hits for 8d6 in the area, and can be used repeatedly. Let weapon users have nice things.

[RedMage125]

RAW rule is DC 20 Int (Nature) or Poisoner's Kit proficiency check to get one dose. Failing means no poison is harvested, failing by 5 or more means you poison yourself.

Poison is one-use item, 1/4 of monster manual is immune to it, and it can still be resisted. It is fine. Fireball hits for 8d6 in the area, and can be used repeatedly. Let weapon users have nice things.

I missed that. Okay, so DC 20, not 15. I'd allow a check of 25+ to get 2 doses, though. Especially from an older (and likely larger) wyvern, as mentioned by the OP.

There was some talk of the wyvern's age making the venom "less potent", but last time i checked, wyverns were creatures of the "dragon" creature type, and those things get MORE potent as they get older, not less.

[RickAllison]

1d6 minutes of harvesting, DC 20 Intelligence (Nature or poisoner's kit) check to get one dose of poison, fail by 5+ and suffer its effects. It's a potent effect, but a one-time bonus to damage isn't going to break the balance of the game. I also don't think it's a problem that someone could (theoretically) farm wyverns for poison. The only way that happens is if they are incapacitated, and at that point they have earned it and they are opening themselves up to some significant issues. Even if they aren't true dragons, I can't imagine a proud chromatic not taking umbrage at someone treating their distant cousins like that.

[denthor]

I come at this from a different angle.

1 do they have proper equipment? Bottles for storage, syringe to extract?

2.Proper skill knowledge anatomy, knowledge poison,

3. Do they know it is constitution poison? This stuff kills just like an evil assassinations would use. Do they mind a grey (neutral) or evil(black) alignment. (Strength or Dexterity poisons not so bad.

4. If proper equipment being used the stuff is good for 30 days.

[RedMage125]

I come at this from a different angle.

1 do they have proper equipment? Bottles for storage, syringe to extract?

2.Proper skill knowledge anatomy, knowledge poison,

3. Do they know it is constitution poison? This stuff kills just like an evil assassinations would use. Do they mind a grey (neutral) or evil(black) alignment. (Strength or Dexterity poisons not so bad.

4. If proper equipment being used the stuff is good for 30 days.

I imagine most of that is covered under proficiency in a Poisoner's Kit, as well as possessing one.

[JackPhoenix]

3. Do they know it is constitution poison? This stuff kills just like an evil assassinations would use. Do they mind a grey (neutral) or evil(black) alignment. (Strength or Dexterity poisons not so bad.

The what poison? Every poison has Con save. Well, some creatures just do poison damage with no save, which may be a problem if players somehow get their hands on it, but those tend to be on the weaker side.

And alignment has nothing to do with the use of poison.