Why did they make Meteor Swarm so weak?

[BlueWitch]

For a Level 9 Spell it's pretty crap.

It deals 2d6 Bludgeoning and 6d6 Fire Damage. Yes, there are four (so a Grand Total of 32d6)
But Disintegrate already beats this. And with Metamagic other spells can easily beat this out.

I just thought for sucha high level spell it should be more brutal than that.
Hellfire Ray is raw af!

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If I could remake Meteor Swarm, it should deal 3d8 Bludgeoning Damage and 15d8 Fire Damage each. And the Fire Damage should be Holy or Unholy so it's not affected by resistance.

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Tl:dr, Why did they make this spell suck so badly?

[Segev]

For a Level 9 Spell it's pretty crap.

It deals 2d6 Bludgeoning and 6d6 Fire Damage. Yes, there are four (so a Grand Total of 32d6)
But Disintegrate already beats this. And with Metamagic other spells can easily beat this out.

I just thought for sucha high level spell it should be more brutal than that.
Hellfire Ray is raw af!

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If I could remake Meteor Swarm, it should deal 3d8 Bludgeoning Damage and 15d8 Fire Damage each. And the Fire Damage should be Holy or Unholy so it's not affected by resistance.

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Tl:dr, Why did they make this spell suck so badly?
Playing Devil's Advocate, here, the comparison to disintegrate is unfair because meteor swarm is an AoE.

That said, it's fire damage, which is not the strongest type around, and it is pretty underwhelming for a 9th level spell. A significant part of the weakness is that it's a core book spell that does damage, and "big numbers" was still considered very risky balance in early 3.5.

I'd probably leave the damage amount alone, myself, but make the fire damage both [fire] and [force], and then I'd up the number of meteors to CL. I'd then add two additional caveats: no one creature can be affected by more than one meteor's AoE per round (though if they overlap, you can roll both and apply the more damaging), and the meteors hang around the caster for up to his CL in rounds after casting, until expended. He can launch any number of them as part of the casting action, or as a standard action on a later round while the spell duration lasts.

Want to hit one creature over and over? You have 17-20 rounds of moderate projectiles to do it with. Want to blanket an area? you have that capacity.

Still might be on the weaker end, without the stacking damage.

Balancing a 9th level pure damage spell is not easy.

[heavyfuel]

It's because 1d6/lv is the mark they were going for for pretty much every other damage dealing spell. 32d6 means that, at the level it fisrt becomes available (17th), it's almost twice as powerful as next best spell, which deals 17d6.

Yeah, they probably forgot about metamagic, so it could stand to be a bit stronger. Making it like Flame Strike where half the Fire damage is unresistible would be a nice start, but the reality is that Meteor Swarm is only really weak compared to other 9ths, which are on the ridiculous level of strength.


If I could remake Meteor Swarm, it should deal 3d8 Bludgeoning Damage and 15d8 Fire Damage each.

That would probably be way too strong (inb4 someone says no damage dealing spell will ever be too strong)

[Lapak]

The short short answer is 'because it is a carryover from earlier editions where direct damage was more useful because it was both much less commonly resisted and facing much lower HP totals.'

It was a no-sweat party killer spell in 1e, just like PW:K was a no-save-just-die against any but the mightiest enemies.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I think the "why" has been covered. On "how to fix it": I'd look at adding a debuff, like deadfall (buried in rubble), and a damage-over-time component, like vitrify. That should make it a nice blasting option.

[Telok]

If I recall correctly Meteor Swarm was translated to 3e almost directly from AD&D. In AD&D only fighters got more than +2 from Con and everyone stopped getting hit dice at 10th level, from 11th and up they got a flat +1, +2, or +3 with no Con bonus.

When a 20th level wizard had max 10d4+30 HP Meteor Swarm was a big deal. In 3e that wizard could have 19d4+74 HP without much effort. Meteor Swarm is much less of a big deal when you have x2 to x4 the HP that it was written for.

[liquidformat]

I think add Segev's and ExlibrisMorti's together, CL # meteors over CL# Rounds where you can launch however many meteors you want each round until you are out and they bury you if you fail a reflex save would round it out pretty well.

[Troacctid]

Disintegrate only deals 5d6 damage if the target passes a save. Meteor swarm doesn't even offer a save at all, and it hits an AoE, which serves as an additional multiplier for the damage. If they were the same level, I would definitely rather have meteor swarm.


I think the "why" has been covered. On "how to fix it": I'd look at adding a debuff, like deadfall (buried in rubble), and a damage-over-time component, like vitrify. That should make it a nice blasting option.
So iceberg?

[Dimers]

Disintegrate only deals 5d6 damage if the target passes a save. Meteor swarm doesn't even offer a save at all, and it hits an AoE, which serves as an additional multiplier for the damage.

There's no save against the bludgeoning (which instead requires an attack roll), but there is for the fire AoE.

[Troacctid]

There's no save against the bludgeoning (which instead requires an attack roll), but there is for the fire AoE.
Not if you hit them with your touch attack.

[ExLibrisMortis]

So iceberg?
Iceberg is similar to deadfall, I suppose, but doesn't have the damage-over-time component.

[Asmotherion]

This is weird... i always remembered Meteor Swarm as 20d6 Fire and 20d6 Bludgeoning... Was i confusing edditions with 5e?

in any case when you compare it to Shapechange or Time Stop it's hard not to see it as a trap option. Even as the massive AoE that it is.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

If you want a similar fire blasting spell that's actually pretty good, check out detonate.

[Telok]

This is weird... i always remembered Meteor Swarm as 20d6 Fire and 20d6 Bludgeoning... Was i confusing edditions with 5e?

in any case when you compare it to Shapechange or Time Stop it's hard not to see it as a trap option. Even as the massive AoE that it is.

Oog. I compared the AD&D version to the 3.5 version. They do the same amount of damage.

AD&D: 4 spheres of 10d4 (25) blasts save for half, no save if you're between the point of origin and the blast area. So if you shoot them past a bunch of people they all get 40d4 (100), no save. It's arguable that fire resistance will only apply once. There's also another option to shoot 8 missiles of 5d4 each that covers a larger area at the end of the range.

3.5: 4 ranged touch attacks for 2d6 (7) each and an explosion of 6d6 (21) save for half, no save if the touch attack hit. Assuming that all 4 attacks hit its 32d6 damage (112). Fire resistance explicitly applies separately to each attack.

So 20 fire resist will save you from about 1/5 to 4/5 of the damage of the AD&D version. The same 20 fire resist save you from 2/3 of the damage if all 4 missiles hit, and nearly all of the damage if you're just in the AoE.

I think I'd prefer the AD&D version even in a 3.5 game.

[ayvango]

How much damage you could get through opening Gate to a sun or an elemental plane of fire? Is there any calculation available?

[Bronk]

Tl:dr, Why did they make this spell suck so badly?

For me, I was always bummed that it didn't actually summon meteors.

If I could fix it, I'd make it open a portal that brought actual space rocks down on the target.


In fact, I'd also bring back the 'Melf's Minute Meteors' spell and link it up thematically to 'Meteor Swarm', then perhaps work the 'Hurtling Stone' spell in there too to make a nice little grouping.

Melf's Minute Meteors was a fun spell! The caster could fling one little fire sphere per level, one at a time, or in bunches. I'd alter all the spells so that you could do something similar. Hurtling stone would be the weakest, followed by Minute Meteor, which would also be on fire, and finally Meteor Swarm, which would give you more and more powerful meteors. I'd also rename them all with a shooting star theme instead of a meteor theme.

Then I'd remake Meteor Swarm as a kind of gate spell but for actual space rocks. I'd give it the ability to destroy fortifications, and maybe add in a percentage chance that a space monster could come through as well.

Finally I'd do something similar but ramped up, an epic spell named Asteroid Strike. It would probably have the divination and transport seeds, at the least.

[Asmotherion]

How much damage you could get through opening Gate to a sun or an elemental plane of fire? Is there any calculation available?

Simple; the environmental hazard damage cap is at 20d6. So probably that much if you manage to have someone fall in a gate to the sun/into magma.

The elemental planes have their own described environmental hazards.

[GrayDeath]

Yeah, and a swarm of 4 is also pretty puny.

In my games I give them 1+1/2 CL Meteors instead, with CL boosters affecting them, and leave the meteors themselves alone.

It doesnt say particilarly destructive meteors, but it DOES say Swarm. ;)

[John05]

Direct damage spells in general are extremely disappointing. You have to metamagick them to High Heavens before they start taking out significant threats with one shot.

Yes, high level casters can "go nova", but usually "high level going nova" involves some shenanigans such as casting multiple spells within a time stop or flowing time planar bubble. It's not just one or two powerful evocations.

No, D&D doesn't *have to* follow popular fantasy tropes, but there's something powerful, simple, elegant, and cinematic about a caster being able to slay hundreds of people with a wave of the hand as though it were effortless. Being able to cast a dozen spells and shapeshifting in multiple forms and throwing out dozens of lasers/blasts to kill several powerful people per round... just doesn't have the same "effortless" feel to it.

You know a spell that *does* have the feel I want from Meteor Swarm? Apocalypse from the Sky... from BoVD. The cost is just a bit too prohibitive.

Where are the 9th level spells that allow a super wizard to kill 10,000 level 1 mooks with a single wave of the hand? They're level 1s and won't give a player or BBEG significant xp, so they're death is mostly dramatic / theatrical.

[Asmotherion]

Yeah, and a swarm of 4 is also pretty puny.

In my games I give them 1+1/2 CL Meteors instead, with CL boosters affecting them, and leave the meteors themselves alone.

It doesnt say particilarly destructive meteors, but it DOES say Swarm. ;)

in all fairness i haven't heard of a meteor that was not particularly destructive... i believe it's implied in the name...

[Blackhawk748]

I remember this spell from Baldurs Gate Dark Alliance where it was actually really nasty and I was very sad when it sucked in 3.5.

Really just having 1 Meteor per 2 caster levels would be enough to bring it into consideration. Well, at least make it suck so much less

[GrayDeath]

in all fairness i haven't heard of a meteor that was not particularly destructive... i believe it's implied in the name...

Yeah.
And for our real world people 6d6 and 2d6 is pretty destructive. Its just not a "big Tunguska + Level Meteor, more a "destroys your house" meteor.

Just inr elation to what some single target spells (or heck a good Fireball with metamagic) can do a single meteor of the swarm shouldnt be too strong, because, ya know, SARM ^^

[ShurikVch]

I once read the history of that spell.

Sadly, I can't find it right now, but IIRR, in the old days - when Rary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rary) was still a PC - Meteor Swarm was very very strong spell, and one of players abused it all the time.
Creators were so fed up of this, when they released the next edition, they nerfed Meteor Swarm to the ground - it became weaker than Fireball.
(Yes. 9th-level spell. Weaker than a 3rd-level spell.)

Since then, Meteor Swarm got better (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnexplainedRecovery), but, unfortunately, "not better enough"...

[Thurbane]

Long story short, several things in 3.5 suffer from being ported from earlier editions. Meteor Swarm seems to be one of those things.

[Falontani]

Honestly, meteor swarm as an evocation sounds like it should do several large explosions doing moderate damage. 5 25 ft radius 5d6 bludgeoning no save areas with 40 ft radius 7d6 ref for half stacked on top. Creatures may only be affected by the fire damage once per casting of the spell, but can be blasted by the bludgeoning damage repeatedly. So 32d6 single area damage, or 12d6 massive area damage.

[DarkSoul]

Meteor Swarm
Conjuration/Evocation (Fire)
Casting Time: Full-round action
Components: V, S, F
Range: Long
Area: Up to four 20' radius bursts; see text.
Targets: Up to four creatures or objects; see text.
Saving Throw: None or Reflex half; see text.
Spell Resistance: Yes.

This spell conjures 4 meteors and fires them at one or more targets or areas. Each meteor deals 1d6 damage per caster level (maximum 25d6). Half of the damage from each meteor is fire damage and half is bludgeoning damage.

If you attack specific targets, make a ranged touch attack for each meteor and add your casting ability modifier to the attack rolls. Any target attacked directly does not get a saving throw to reduce the damage. If your touch attack misses, the meteor continues until it hits an obstacle or reaches the limit of the spell's range and then detonates as an area attack. If you attack an area, the spell leaves behind a field of rubble that is considered difficult terrain. If the spell doesn't penetrate a target's spell resistance, they are still subject to the effects of the difficult terrain. Creatures caught in the area can make a Reflex save for half damage. The area damage can be overlapped, and anything caught in both areas makes a separate save for each meteor's damage. The caster can choose specific targets or areas for each meteor.

For example, 17th-level Mialee chooses to attack Warduke directly with two meteors, and detonate the other two as area attacks on his minions surrounding him. Her touch attack rolls hit, and Warduke takes 34d6 points of damage, with no saving throw. The area attacks deal 17d6 fire and bludgeoning damage to Warduke's minions, but one of the areas also hits Warduke. He takes an additional 17d6 fire and bludgeoning damage, but he and his minions get a Reflex save for half damage against the area attacks. Even if they pass their saves, they're still standing in the middle of a large area of difficult terrain.

Focus: A small rod of meteoric lodestone worth 100 gp.

Not that I think 9th-level spells are weak, but I do agree that Meteor Swarm needs a little work. Thoughts on this version?

[Segev]

If you’re trying to make it have an appropriate amount of damage, the first step is to figure out what the maximum damage it should be able to do to a single target is, then what the maximum area that damage should be able to be dealt to is. Then you can start playing witt splitting hat amongst multiple small meteors with overlapping areas.

So, question 1 for discussion purposes: if designing a 9th level fireball spell (same range and AoE as the existing 3rd level fireball), how much damage should it do to be balanced as a 9th level fire damage AoE spell?

Some thoughts: Fireball already does 10d6 long before you reach the ability to cast 9th level spells. For a 5th level slot, an empowered fireball does “effectively” 15d6. A 6th level slot does a flat 60 damage (Maximize). And an 8th level slot does “effectively” 5d6+60 fire damage with both Empower and Maximize.

A fireball that somehow did 20d6 would average to 7.5 less damage than the 5d6+60, and would have the same maximum damage.

Level 3 average/maximum damage: 35/60
Level 5: 52.5/90
Level 6: 60/60
Level 8: 77.5/120

This shows a rough progression of +8.5 average damage per +1 spell level, with a rough +12 maximum damage per +1 level if we discount the instance where maximum and average are the same.

Using that, level 9 should be 86 average and 132 maximum. If we went with (1d6+1) per CL, we’d hit these goals with between CL 18 (81/126) and CL 19 (85.5/138). At CL 20, it gets a bit higher, to 90 average and 150 max.

Edit: Also, the existing version either offers no save or a -4 penalty to save (3.5 vs. Pathfinder) to any creature hit directly by one of the spheres. And the area of each sphere’s detonation is twice that of a single Fireball.

The fire damage alone from being in the overlapping area of all four is 24d6 (84/144), which is in the ballpark (and mostly on the high end) for the calculations above for a “fireball” of 9th level. One target can take up to 8d6 additional bludgeoning and get no (or a +4 DC) save, or up to four targets can get +2d6 bludgeoning each and the same save penalties.

On reflection, this is seeming about right for a 9th level spell. Direct damage is often less impressive than other options, but this is pretty versatile and hits he right ballpark of damage. The touch attack on up to four creatures is a great anti-evasion mechanism, too.

[Fat Rooster]

I think they overestimated the importance of range (or rather, how many people actually use it. I see people not realising that short range is less than the length of a tennis court a lot). It's strength is being able to do it's damage from 1000'+. Of coarse, if you are kiting from that range you might as well take a bit more time and use lower level spells, as it doesn't give you anything more. Still, nothing quite clears an area of mooks quite like meteor swarm, it simply covers more area than anything else.

That's the other thing about it, it's ideal use case never happens. Not because in universe it doesn't make sense, but because nobody wants to actually run 200+ mooks (unfortunately for fighters). The rule set isn't good at it.

Even so, meteor swarm is smaller than I would like for a 9th level area nuke spell, and I would probably up the bludgeoning damage to give it a more focused punch for some versatility. I might also give it some wall punching rules, so that you can sequence them to do their blasts inside fortifications after the first one punches through. Make it a bunker busting monstrosity that you cannot hide from. It then at least does something more than being a quad widened fireball with less damage. Currently It is underwhelming for a 9th level spell because it is a wide effect that isn't very wide. If each meteor had 100' radius it would at least feel big, even if it was still kind of useless in actual play*. It would be a spell capable of demolishing a small town before the watchtowers even notice you. That would be one way for a big bad to make an entrance (and still have the PCs pretty safe even at relatively low level). Having the party be the only survivors of a meteor swarm attack on a town could be an interesting start for a 5th level party.

*Unless you are fighting enemies hiding in a forest. It would work great at clearing the forest.

[Segev]

That’s the thing. It does do heavy focused damage if you want it to. At its most focused, one target is taking 32d6 damage and getting either no save (in 3.5) or a save at -4 to his roll (PF), and a widened Fireball’s area is taking 24d6 fire damage (save for half) as well.

You can’t match it for spread, either, with lower level spells; a quad-cast widened fireball would take twin quickened fireball + twinned fireball, and even that isn’t max spread. It is more damage. The 6d6 rapidly becomes unimpressive if used over maximal area. But it’s an option. The main purpose is 1-2 guys you want to pound hard and a overlapping area of high AoE at very long range.

That said, for true single target max damage, look to Disintegrate.

[Anthrowhale]

A minor side note: an Empowered Energy Admixture[Fire] Fireball does 30d6 fire damage (Reflex 1/2) out of a 9th level slot in a 20' radius which is fairly competitive in raw damage.

I think the reason why Meteor Swarm ends up feeling underwhelming is a combination of:
(1) High level opponents have hit points that grow much faster than a low level linear projection would suggest.
(2) High level opponents commonly have fire resistance and/or immunity.
(3) Metamagic reduction can be used to generate much higher damage quantities out of a 9th level slot.

[Elkad]

Houserule:
1d6*CL bludgeoning + 3d6*CL fire. Divided into individual meteors however you want. (minimum size 1d6b+3d6f). Or smash a single target with one giant meteor.
Bludgeoning portion is SR:No (odd for Evocation. It needs it.)

Now it's a single target threat, or spread them out and do 3d6 fire to 172*CL individual squares. (plus CL targets hit by a rock) for burninating Saruman's Orcs outside Helms Deep. (3096 orcs at CL18. Or 1800 if they are in 100man square phalanxes with some space between them.)

Turning into a dragon via shapechange and doing strafing runs would kill more eventually. But you are also out on the battlefield instead of peeking out an arrow slit.

[ericgrau]

It's not weak, you're just using it wrong. It has multiple very large areas of effect which you can direct individually or together. It's awesome for instantly decimating armies. Even on a passed save, most large groups will all die from a single spell, in a single round. Unless their CR is so high that this is a certain TPK scenario. If all you want is more damage, then metamagic up a fireball instead. And honestly making a new effect and relying on metamagic to boost old effects is much more creative design than simply creating a higher level version of the same spell that does nothing different except more damage.

Let's take a non-abused shapechange, using only core forms or similar for example. It might be better at conserving spells, at a level when you have way more than enough spells, but it will take much longer to wipe out a large army and in the meantime they hit back. It's not as good at conserving allies and usually the life of the caster himself too. So it all depends which goal is more important in the scenario, how many foes, etc. But against a 150 foot wide (2'6" of battle-mat) army, meteor swarm is almost always better.

Now normally I would wait for a known army encounter before preparing meteor swarm and I wouldn't often select it on a sorcerer. But even on a sorcerer I might sometimes consider it. By level 18 I already have 8 spell levels with a huge number of spells. Many of them could go toward more general purpose battlefield control spells that will remain extremely effective even against CR 20+ threats. Depending on my spell choices for those levels I might be very happy with using a 9th level spell known on a strong backup spell. Tailoring all spells towards an enclosed dungeon is a bit redundant when you have so many and can only cast 1 or 2 per round. Some should be for open wilderness, many for buffs, etc., etc. Having backup styles by level 17-18 is almost a given.

[icefractal]

If you're looking for a good blasting spell to compare it to, I like Frostfell.
20' cube / level, turned to ice if they fail the save, 20d6 if they succeed. And it makes the whole area dangerously cold and icy for an hour/level.

The problem with Meteor Swarm as an anti-army spell is that at 6d6, with a save, you're looking at having some survivors even against fairly "normal" troops. Pulling out a 9th level spell, and then having some 3rd level Warriors be able to walk it off isn't very satisfying.

[Elkad]

It's not weak, you're just using it wrong. ...

So let us take an odd one.

5 18th level characters vs 100 trolls. (EPL 18.6 vs EL19, easy encounter). Maybe the boss is in the next room, and you want to blast through them in a hurry to minimize his buff rounds.

Seems like a good use case for Meteor Swarm. Lots of them, you want them dead NOW, and you want fire damage.
No SR, and they won't make the reflex save (DC 25 or more, vs Ref:+4), so you get full damage.


If they phalanx up in 5x5 groupings, you can hit all of them. 6d6 is 21 pts. A third of their hitpoints to all of them. Or you can hit one group of 25 with 3 meteors and kill them, plus injure a few more.

You've knocked out a quarter of them, or knocked 1/3rd of the hitpoints off all of them.

Now we check Firestorm instead. 36 10' cubes. That's a minimum of 36 dead trolls, and with overlapping, probably about double that. Out of a 7th level slot.

It just doesn't compare well to lower level AoE options.

[Elves]

My go to fix would be to have the meteors bash people around and break things. That makes it feel more dramatic which is the number one thing the spell is missing. If you leave the battlefield in tatters and positions mixed up, it doesn't matter so much that everything isn't dead.

[lord_khaine]

That’s the thing. It does do heavy focused damage if you want it to. At its most focused, one target is taking 32d6 damage and getting either no save (in 3.5) or a save at -4 to his roll (PF), and a widened Fireball’s area is taking 24d6 fire damage (save for half) as well.

I agree.
As such i think Meteor Swarm is in line with the majority of the spells in the PHB.
It does, at long range, 32d6 without a save to a single target.
Thats something that kills hostile rogues, or a enemy wizard/sorcerer after you dispel their fire resistance with a quickend dispel.
For that matter, its also something that mess up clerics and druids. Actually anyone, if they lack fire resistance.

[Fat Rooster]

It's not weak, you're just using it wrong. It has multiple very large areas of effect which you can direct individually or together.

They just don't feel big enough to me though. It is weaker than 16 3rd level spells. I expect a 17th level caster to outshine 16 mooks with wands on the battlefield, and meteor swarm just doesn't cut it in that respect. I'd put it 7th level tops, because it overlaps resistance even when focused. Can you imagine how as5blasted somebody would be if you managed to get rid of their resistance and then hit them with 16 fireballs instead?

9th level evocations should leave town sized craters. Destroying buildings, even 4 at a time, should be mid level. Waves of mooks should be able to be hand waved by the DM because every character can deal without breaking a sweat. This is why we can concentrate on the roughly level parity duels that the game is best at.


For the majority of purposes the 40' might as well be 100', so why not make it that scale? After SR, and resistance, it struggles, so why not focus it on the targets it is best at (low SR, unlikely to have significant resistance low HD targets).

[Blackhawk748]

It's not weak, you're just using it wrong. It has multiple very large areas of effect which you can direct individually or together. It's awesome for instantly decimating armies. Even on a passed save, most large groups will all die from a single spell, in a single round. Unless their CR is so high that this is a certain TPK scenario. If all you want is more damage, then metamagic up a fireball instead. And honestly making a new effect and relying on metamagic to boost old effects is much more creative design than simply creating a higher level version of the same spell that does nothing different except more damage.

Let's take a non-abused shapechange, using only core forms or similar for example. It might be better at conserving spells, at a level when you have way more than enough spells, but it will take much longer to wipe out a large army and in the meantime they hit back. It's not as good at conserving allies and usually the life of the caster himself too. So it all depends which goal is more important in the scenario, how many foes, etc. But against a 150 foot wide (2'6" of battle-mat) army, meteor swarm is almost always better.

Now normally I would wait for a known army encounter before preparing meteor swarm and I wouldn't often select it on a sorcerer. But even on a sorcerer I might sometimes consider it. By level 18 I already have 8 spell levels with a huge number of spells. Many of them could go toward more general purpose battlefield control spells that will remain extremely effective even against CR 20+ threats. Depending on my spell choices for those levels I might be very happy with using a 9th level spell known on a strong backup spell. Tailoring all spells towards an enclosed dungeon is a bit redundant when you have so many and can only cast 1 or 2 per round. Some should be for open wilderness, many for buffs, etc., etc. Having backup styles by level 17-18 is almost a given.

If I want to kill and army I have Boreal Wind, which will obliterate an army once it's lined up on the field of battle. Meteor Swarm isn't all that impressive in its army killing ability as there are many, many options that will do as much damage (or mre) available earlier).