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Pinjata
2019-08-23, 04:26 AM
Hey guys,

here is the situation: We have a Young Green dragon, who established his small domain at the edge of a massive Old Forest. His "lair" at the time is a heavily ruined old fort - piles of overgrown stone a litle more then a few walls still standing. Dragon flies over and under forest canopy, plucking an occasional deer or bear, planning on how to set up his hoard.

One day, a small group of armed humanoids approaches his ruined castle. How should this dragon react?

I'll provide answers to any adittional questions, if necessary.

Edited after DeTess's comment: A decade ago, this dragon had a almost deadly run-in with a group of adventurers and is extremely wary of such individuals.

DeTess
2019-08-23, 04:36 AM
If the dragon had no reason to be wary of these humanoids (whether by reputation, or because they very obviously have lots of magical mojo), I'd expect it to present itself to those interlopers and demand tribute, attacking if they insult it or otherwise act like the dragon isn't the lord of his domain and completely in his right to demand and receive tribute.

If he does have reasons to be wary, it'd probably stalk and observe them for a while, striking from ambush to wear them down before going in for the kill.

Pinjata
2019-08-23, 05:12 AM
If the dragon had no reason to be wary of these humanoids (whether by reputation, or because they very obviously have lots of magical mojo), I'd expect it to present itself to those interlopers and demand tribute, attacking if they insult it or otherwise act like the dragon isn't the lord of his domain and completely in his right to demand and receive tribute.

If he does have reasons to be wary, it'd probably stalk and observe them for a while, striking from ambush to wear them down before going in for the kill.

Stalking idea is great. I've forgotten to mention, this dragon had a almost deadly run-in with a group of adventurers and is extremely wary of such individuals.

DeTess
2019-08-23, 05:44 AM
Stalking idea is great. I've forgotten to mention, this dragon had a almost deadly run-in with a group of adventurers and is extremely wary of such individuals.

In that case he'd likely be very wary, stalking them, maybe set some monsters on them to gauge their strength, and unless he has a reason to be extremely attached to his current territory, he might just decide to leave for a bit if he thinks the adventurers would be too much trouble.

On the other hand, if the dragon believes he can take the adventurers, he very well might attack, just to prove that he has overcome his previous weakness.

HurinSmite
2019-08-23, 07:18 AM
First thought is that as a young dragon it's 16-25 years old and might just cut its loses then and there: take as much of its hoard with it and leave.

If they're about to arrive at its "lair" and they seem well equipped - The dragon could try to scare them off by using the fear of dragons and saying the draconic version of "get off my lawn". (this tactic rarely works against PCs, but the dragon doesn't do metagaming. It has lost to adventurers before, yes. But draconic power comes hand in hand with draconic arrogance.)

Does the dragon have minions? If not the humanoids could be the first. If not all of them there's certainly a cowardly one amongst them. Kill all but that one, torture for a year and then set them free to be your spy in the nearby towns. (that's what my young adult black dragon did atleast. He had boggards as minions and a scarred subjugated ex-adventurer as a spy)

How hidden is his lair, or more specifically his hoard? How does he know they're coming for the ruins or him (unlikely since he's only hunting deer etc.)? Curiosity might get the better of him. Maybe they know something about these ruins that he doesn't. Maybe they find something valuable - then AFTER (when they're exhausted) he'll attack and take their lives and the treasure. (his previous encounter tells him adventurers can be capable individuals).

Building on this, if he thinks he has time lure/chase some great beast to his own lair to tire out the adventurers.


Just how far away does the dragon see these humanoids coming? Miles away? Days away? Minutes? That really determines how an up and coming dragon would act.

Evil DM Mark3
2019-08-23, 08:16 AM
It might help if you gave a little more thought to one or two questions:

What makes this green dragon different from other green dragons?

What is the most interesting answer?

In 3.5 at least it has mental stats in the 14-15 range and is LE, but beyond that, what is it? A coward? A warrior? A thinker? Does it want revenge or is it careful and risk-averse? How much will its improved abilities since the last fight affect this (it has DR now after all).

Without a horde or much of a lair the smart move would be to cut and run, but I suspect you might not find that a great source of drama.

Lapak
2019-08-23, 08:20 AM
First thought is that as a young dragon it's 16-25 years old and might just cut its loses then and there: take as much of its hoard with it and leave.This is not a bad answer, particularly for a dragon that has already had a run-in with adventurers. Dragons are smart, and this one has reason to be more cautious than most. If its hoard is portable, then temporarily clearing out has all kinds of benefits - no immediate risk, and being adventurers it is very possible they will pick through the empty ruin and then move on, and if anything tell people that there is nothing of interest there. A day or two of hiding buys potentially years of security. Maybe leave a couple magical/physical traps that could plausibly be left over from the fort's heyday to make the risk/reward calculation even less favorable.

Worst case scenario is they (against all odds or reason) decide to move in and rebuild the place. At which point the dragon, who knows the place like the back of its hand, can hit them from ambush, maybe even while they are asleep. Maybe even let them do a little work first if they start on elements they will hinder other humanoids but not bother the dragon.

In that case it may even be able to drive them out or kill them without ever facing then; I am imagining the adventures waking up already choking on poison gas that is coming out of a crack in the floor, suffering damage that they may not even know is connected to a dragon that knows about the tunnels and crawlspace better than they ever will.

Red Fel
2019-08-23, 08:34 AM
Well, let's take in some basic facts. Like EvilDMMk3, I'm going to assume 3.5 until told otherwise.

A Young Green Dragon is no more than 25 years old. He's inexperienced even by mortal standards, so some caution is merited on his part. He's Medium, which means comparable size with the adventurers approaching him - and they outnumber him. His abilities are limited - he has 1 bite attack, 2 claws and 2 wings, no tail slap, crush, or tail sweep, and no caster level, Frightful Presence, SR, or SLAs. His breath weapon is a 30 foot cone, and he can fly - basically, that's the extent of his combat ability. And then there's this, from the SRD:


Green dragons initiate fights with little or no provocation, picking on creatures of any size. If the target is intriguing or seems formidable, the dragon stalks the creature to determine the best time to strike and the most appropriate tactics to use. If the target appears weak, the dragon makes its presence known quickly—it enjoys evoking terror. Sometimes the dragon elects to control a humanoid creature through intimidation and suggestion. Green dragons especially like to question adventurers to learn more about their society and abilities, what is going on in the countryside, and if there is treasure nearby.Emphasis mine.

So, assuming your dragon is typical, it should probably use the tactics of an ambush predator. Stalk the party from a distance, either hiding in the trees or using its Water Breathing ability to remain submerged, and find the right time to attack - i.e. while they are sleeping. If the party becomes aware of it and prepares for combat, it should flee and wait until - if at all - they drop their guard. If they call out to it, seeking to pass peacefully through its territory, let it indulge its curiosity by asking them questions, learning about them and where they came from.

Whether it chooses to let them pass peacefully afterwards is, of course, another matter.

King of Nowhere
2019-08-23, 11:28 AM
dragons don't get to live to over a millennia by taking unnecessary risks. all things considered, the dragon should look at the risk/reward chart (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0721.html) and conclude it's not worth the risk. he may flee or hide, he may attempt diplomacy.

now, if you actually want your dragon to fight, what others said about stalking and ambush makes the most sense

oudeis
2019-08-23, 02:12 PM
Hey guys,

here is the situation: We have a Young Green dragon, who established his small domain at the edge of a massive Old Forest. His "lair" at the time is a heavily ruined old fort - piles of overgrown stone a litle more then a few walls still standing. Dragon flies over and under forest canopy, plucking an occasional deer or bear, planning on how to set up his hoard.

One day, a small group of armed humanoids approaches his ruined castle. How should this dragon react?

I'll provide answers to any adittional questions, if necessary.

Edited after DeTess's comment: A decade ago, this dragon had a almost deadly run-in with a group of adventurers and is extremely wary of such individuals.


I have to ask, what is the purpose of this encounter? More bluntly, what is the point of making it a young dragon, especially one that's already gun-, er, sword-shy?

Gallowglass
2019-08-23, 05:01 PM
Hey guys,

here is the situation: We have a Young Green dragon, who established his small domain at the edge of a massive Old Forest. His "lair" at the time is a heavily ruined old fort - piles of overgrown stone a litle more then a few walls still standing. Dragon flies over and under forest canopy, plucking an occasional deer or bear, planning on how to set up his hoard.

One day, a small group of armed humanoids approaches his ruined castle. How should this dragon react?


Man I don't know. Do I have to go look up what a Green Dragon....



Green dragons initiate fights with little or no provocation, picking on creatures of any size. If the target is intriguing or seems formidable, the dragon stalks the creature to determine the best time to strike and the most appropriate tactics to use. If the target appears weak, the dragon makes its presence known quickly—it enjoys evoking terror. Sometimes the dragon elects to control a humanoid creature through intimidation and suggestion. Green dragons especially like to question adventurers to learn more about their society and abilities, what is going on in the countryside, and if there is treasure nearby.


Oh thank Fel, that was easy. Okay then....

Young Dragon (smart, but naive and inexperienced)
Wants to build a horde (so on the lookout for treasure, the easier the better)
Prior Experience (sharp things hurt. I won't win every fight)
Initiate Fights with little provocation.
Smart enough to use stalk and hunt tactics
Likes to question adventurers to learn more about them....

Aha!

Can a dragon this size/age shapeshift yet? I'm going to assume he can because that would make for a more interesting encounter.

As the armed ruffians approach the ruins, a young green-eyed woman with scratches and wounds and ripped clothes comes stumbling out of the woods. "Oh thank Fel!" She explains that there she was being held prisoner by some thugs but managed to get away. The ruffians check the woods but no sign of her pursuers. She lets them know about a nearby keep where a vile warlord lives and that he did terrible things to her and has a whole sex dungeon of other similarly comely young prisoners. They quickly agree to help her. For the next several days they travel toward the keep while the girl seems flirty and interested in them and asks them stories about their lives and travels. Eventually they get to the keep and stake it out, figuring out how the guard schedule works, then as night falls, the armed ruffians scale the walls with the intention of killing the warlord and freeing his servants. Many battles occur and many skill checks. At the end of it, they manage to kill the warlord, but find out that... wait... he's not a warlord. He's a benevolent landowner and local duke and he doesn't have a slave harem. As they try to figure out what is going on they find the henchman they left with the young woman dead of poisoning and the duke finds his vaults rent asunder and his wealth gone. There is no sign of the young woman.


Oh wait. No shapeshifting? Dammit. Okay then *grumble stupid rules taking away all the fun of being an apex predator*

The armed troupe of ruffians works their way through the forest, intent and alert. They have heard of some ruins out here and ruins always contain treasure. As they travel they hear rusting off in the woods, haunted melodies, distant hummings. It is unnerving and unrelenting. If they had better perception they could find the hidden wind whistles, chimes and noisemakers the dragon has already hung about his "haunted wood" A few times they trigger small traps. One falls into a pit with spikes, one gets noosed up into a tree. Nothing deadly, but there is obviously something out here...somethign that doesn't like intruders.

Every now and then they hear the sound of something large moving through the woods. Around and above them. But they never find it.

As they get closer to the ruins, and dark is beginning to fall, they take a break and decide what to to next.

That's when the 80lb deer carcass falls through the treetops and lands on one of them. Blood and gore explode as the ruffian's neck snaps. A green cloud of noxious gas seems to explode out of the carcass as it hits, filling the clearing causing them to choke, gag and nearly faint. Maybe one does.

The rest take off running at a dead sprint back the way they came. The slowest and last among them gets quickly left behind and is suprised as the 200 lb green dragon swoops down, picks him up and carries him up into the trees. He manages to get two swings in before the dragon drops him. bodily in the middle of the large lake in the middle of his woods. As he struggles to keep his armored form above water, the dragon swoops up, then down and drives him under the surface of the lake. Constitution rounds later, the dragon lets him gasping to the surface and slowly circles him, sharklike, as he gasps for air.

"So.... tell me about yourself... where do you come from.... tell me about your friends...."



***

How's my Villainy doing , Red Fel? On a scale of 1 to You.

False God
2019-08-23, 05:55 PM
Edited after DeTess's comment: A decade ago, this dragon had a almost deadly run-in with a group of adventurers and is extremely wary of such individuals.

Dragons are essentially adventurers themselves. Just flip the names and you have their answer.

When an adventuring party encounters a creature that could gain it XP, loot and the death of which would help keep them and the area "safe" (from their perspective), what does a party do? They kills it.

Dragon's work the same way. In lieu of the dragon being a do-gooder type, they are likely to see an adventuring party as a threat made out of XP, treasure, and "reputation". Especially if they've had bad run-ins with parties in the past.

a_flemish_guy
2019-08-23, 09:29 PM
one thing that's missing from the description is that green dragons tend to find lot's of things intriguing, especially people, especially a diverse group of heavily armed people not from around the area trudging around in the woods

a dragon isn't a wild animal that attacks when you threaten it's nest and especially not greens, they're actually the most sociable and curious of the chromatics, hell they may even invite the party into it's lair, of course they'll be ready to kill the party at any time the dragon feels like it but it's the thought that counts

I think a young green wouldn't attack an adventuring party unprovoked, I don't think it'll even be that cautious, greens spend their youth protected by their parents and by the time they leave 90% of all wildlife in the forest doesn't pose a threat so they've never learned the value of caution

Tvtyrant
2019-08-23, 10:55 PM
Young Green Dragons are CR 8ish, and he is young. I imagine he has probably driven out or dominated the local tribes of things, lizard folk and the like. Those that he dominates provide free resources, which is why all dragons IMGs end up with some sort of cult or army (economic logic.)

So I would assume he sends some minions first and watches them interact from hiding/a distance. The party has some locals offer trade or demand tribute, depending on the dragon's feelings about things, and if the party looks weak the dragon assaults their camp in their sleep. Heck if he is particularly crafty he might actually have the minions offer the group free tribute in order to better spy on them.

FabulousFizban
2019-08-24, 01:08 PM
how hard a challenge do you want this to be?

if the dragon has minions, he can send them after the party. if not, he can still drive forest predators, such as bears and wolves, towards the party like a cowboy herding cattle, then attack them while they are weakened.

he can mislead the party: if he has minions, “oh, there was a dragon here, but some adventurers killed it a year ago and took it’s hoard. we goblins live here now - an adventure for PCs level 1-3! wait! come back! we have a gelatinous cube. we dyed it purple and sometimes throw stone letters into it!”
if no minions, just move the hoard until they leave.

he could bribe them. or hire them. or harass them so they can’t rest.

the possibilities are really only limited by your creativity.

Pauly
2019-08-24, 03:49 PM
First of all the dragon is weak but smart. He knows that adventurers like to kill dragons for their hoard/XP. He knows that adventurers will tool up according to the color of the dragon.

The first thing this young dragon, who happens to be a rather dark shade of green, does is paint himself black. His minions know his secret, they have to keep up the camouflage after all, but they aint talking to nobody. Also when the dragon shape-shifts he shape-shifts into black themed identities, with just a hint of dark green that the very observant might notice.

He has chosen his lair that is close to a swamp area near a river running through his forest. Forts are built near a water supply and the abandoned moat has become a source of a swamp.

So any adventurers who come in geared up to deal with black dragons might find themselves in for an uncomfortable surprise.

Importantly he never says he is a black dragon. He only lets people make false assumptions that he does not correct.

Edit to add: It also works in reverse. If you’ve told the party it is a Green Dragon, you can make it a Black masquerading as a Green. One roleplaying option is to make the dragon trans-chroma if that’s something you want to explore.

Pinjata
2019-08-25, 05:40 AM
Just to answer a few questions:

Does the dragon have minions?
No minions yet.

How hidden is his lair, or more specifically his hoard?
It's a ruined fort in a forest, no hoard yet, actually. He got this place for himself just a few weeks ago.

How does he know they're coming for the ruins or him (unlikely since he's only hunting deer etc.)?
He does not, but has general alertness going for him.


Just how far away does the dragon see these humanoids coming? Miles away? Days away? Minutes? That really determines how an up and coming dragon would act.

Perhaps 20 min away.

How hidden is his lair, or more specifically his hoard?
It's a ruined tower/fort in a clearing, surrounded by thick forest.


What makes this green dragon different from other green dragons?
Nothing, I could think of.


I have to ask, what is the purpose of this encounter? More bluntly, what is the point of making it a young dragon, especially one that's already gun-, er, sword-shy?
Just a trait he got. I played this module already and PCs managed to seriously hurt and chase away this dragon away.


Can a dragon this size/age shapeshift yet?
Not yet.

how hard a challenge do you want this to be?
Well ... this encounter has an option to be super-deadly by itself.

Xuc Xac
2019-08-25, 06:00 AM
It all depends on which young green dragon this is. Is it Dave?

FabulousFizban
2019-08-28, 11:48 AM
ok, so based on your update, i would say the dragon would have two main tactics depending on his temperament.

first, he can try to hire the adventurers - send them off on some deadly or impossible (goose chase) task and promise them dragon gold just to get rid if them.

second, drive predators from the forrest at them in successive “random” encounters until they are weak, then attack them himself when they try to rest. when they set up camp, you can probably surprise round the entire party with a breath weapon, depending on the watch’s passive perception. if they don’t set up a watch, even better.

Kaptin Keen
2019-08-30, 01:20 AM
I'm wondering why it's lair isn't under water?

I'm also slightly uncertain why a dragon that's clearly at the very start of it's power curve would elect to pick any fight unless it was quite certain of the outcome. If it was to pick a fight, I'd say it would try to assassinate the intruders - as in, fly-by breath weapon attack on their camp at night, see whether they survive. And if they do, fly home, pack, and leave.