Best maneuvers for a warblade dip

[Trandir]

I intend to dip a single level in warblade as 13th level with past levels being rogue 10/ shadowdancer 2 so as a lv 7 martial initiate.


I thought of 3 setups:

First
M: Mind over body
M: Moment of perfect mind
M: White raven tactics
S: Leading the charge

Second
M: Iron heart surge
M: Mind over body
M: Moment of perfect mind
S: Punishing Stace

Third
M: Leading the attack
M: Iron heart surge
M: White raven tactics
S: Punishing Stace

Ok the third one is the one I take.
So I can use the warblade ranks for other things.

That sayed probably I will get the countes via a level in swordsage or one with a martial study this way I can still get decent save(s) once every encounter

[heavyfuel]

Do you have good concentration in order to make use of Mind over Body? It's not a class skill for either Rogue or Shadowdancer

[Trandir]

Do you have good concentration in order to make use of Mind over Body? It's not a class skill for either Rogue or Shadowdancer

I got +2 int and the master got a weird house rule so this first warblade level is like a pc absolute first level, max hd, 4x(4+int) skill ranks ecc. So I can get concentration to 16 ranks ad have 8 left for the other skills. Plus rogue skill mastery in this setting add a flat +10 to the check and I am going to craft a custom item for +10 concentration. This plus some oher modifiers should get me a +40 bonus to concentration checks if I were to choose those maneuvers

[Techwarrior]

How often do you have to make Fortitude and Will saves? Because that's what's really going to determine it. If you are going to making them quite frequently, then I'd take the counters and Iron Heart Surge. Otherwise, you're probably better off with WRT over Iron Heart Surge. Tactics is a busted in half maneuver.

Dnd's most important economy is that of the action. Mind over Body and Moment of Perfect Mind keep you from losing actions. Iron Heart Surge is most frequently used to regain actions from a failed save against an effect. White Raven Tactics gives your best Ally a full extra turn, potentially two effective turns depending on initiative order. Decide for yourself how important each of those effects are to your character.

[Trandir]

How often do you have to make Fortitude and Will saves? Because that's what's really going to determine it. If you are going to making them quite frequently, then I'd take the counters and Iron Heart Surge. Otherwise, you're probably better off with WRT over Iron Heart Surge. Tactics is a busted in half maneuver.

Dnd's most important economy is that of the action. Mind over Body and Moment of Perfect Mind keep you from losing actions. Iron Heart Surge is most frequently used to regain actions from a failed save against an effect. White Raven Tactics gives your best Ally a full extra turn, potentially two effective turns depending on initiative order. Decide for yourself how important each of those effects are to your character.

I am the scout/trapfinder so the diamond mind maneuvers are pretty good against traps. In the party there are a cleric, a sorcerer and a master of many forms so delaying an action to give one of the casters a full extra turn is better than anything else I could ever do as a rogue. I will go stealth mode thanks to shadowdancer's HIPS and the darkstalker feat so single target spells/attacks will mostly go to the others.
I would attack when I can get the iaijutsu focus (next level I'll take a level in exemplar or factotum to get 17 ranks in it) and sneak attack bonus damage. This still isn't very usefull compared to what the others can do in combat so the best use of my actions would be to buy a wand and use it to buff the damage dealers or use white raven tactics while I stay safe and hidden

[ZamielVanWeber]

You cannot take any of those combos unless you took Martial Study at a prior level. Maneuvers have internal prerequisites that must be fulfilled first. Douse the Flame and Leading the Attack are good support options and leave grabbing WRT from a feat open later.

[GrayDeath]

If you really are often scouting out of reach of your party, I for one would go with this:

Moment of the perfect Mind
Mind over Body
Iron heart Surge
Punishing stance (although if youc ang et a feat in to get Iron ehart Surge without having to take this, I would switch to either the one granting Scent or Assassins stance)

[heavyfuel]

I got +2 int and the master got a weird house rule so this first warblade level is like a pc absolute first level, max hd, 4x(4+int) skill ranks ecc.

Why are you not building a 20 class character? Seriously, get a new class at every level starting now


How often do you have to make Fortitude and Will saves? Because that's what's really going to determine it.

Pretty much. There are games where having good Will is useless. The Druid I'm currently playing is level 12 and is yet to make a fort or will save

[ZamielVanWeber]

Pretty much. There are games where having good Will is useless. The Druid I'm currently playing is level 12 and is yet to make a fort or will save

Sometimes they come at you though. My warblade made no reflex saves until level 21 and then suddenly had to make over 30 in one combat. An investment in Will for the random game ending threat is probably a safe bet.

[Trandir]

You cannot take any of those combos unless you took Martial Study at a prior level. Maneuvers have internal prerequisites that must be fulfilled first. Douse the Flame and Leading the Attack are good support options and leave grabbing WRT from a feat open later.

Ah yes this debate. There are two possible interpretation:
You take new maneuvers one at a time so you can get first a maneuver and than one that requires some maneuvers as prerequisite in a single level up.
Or
You take them at the same time so no maneuver count towards the prerequisites of the maneuvers taken in that level.
The tome of battle offers no explicit rule so it depends on the DM. And guess what mine sayed?

[heavyfuel]

Sometimes they come at you though. My warblade made no reflex saves until level 21 and then suddenly had to make over 30 in one combat. An investment in Will for the random game ending threat is probably a safe bet.

Well, sure. But then maneuvers that eat your immediate action which you then have to spend the swift action to recover aren't going to be super useful.

If he has to save once or twice every once in a while the maneuvers are going to be far more useful than if he rarely ever has to save and might have to save 30 times in a single combat, even if the end sum is the same

[Trandir]

Why are you not building a 20 class character? Seriously, get a new class at every level starting now


I might actually do this.

About the why not multiclassing from level 1 the answer is: the pc had to be on theme for the classes.
But since now it has amnesia (DM choice not mine) I can say that he want to discover whatever and so is dipping in everithing to try to get something to snap.
Rogue 10/ Shadowdancer 2/ warblade 1/ exemplar 1/ swordsage 1/ fighter 1/ scout 1/ swashbuckler 1/ warrior 1/ expert 1 could be interesting but let's think of one level at a time: not it's the warblade turn.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I'd go with the third one, because Iron Heart Surge is a fantastic ace in the hole for many rough situations, and White Raven Tactics is just fantastic period. On the other hand, I'll freely admit that Diamond Mind is outside my area of expertise, so maybe those maneuvers are a better idea.

[Endarire]

Stance: Punishing Stance OR Bolstering Voice.

Maneuvers: White Raven Tactics & Iron Heart Surge, one maneuver of the White Raven or Iron Heart discipline to ensure you qualify for WRT and IHS.