build help from veterans

[rediridesence]

one of my party is looking to make a character who has an "armored bulwark" theme. they are adamant on using heavy armor and a tower shield.

I am aware of the penalties associated with these items, and i informed him of them, but he still wants to use them as flavor for his character.

So, does anyone know any tips & tricks to make platemail with a tower shield work?

he will be level 11, assume standard starting wealth (66,000gp). he is a human.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Crusader, from Tome of Battle, is a fantastic class for tanking (being a bulwark). Using maneuvers instead of full attacks means the penalty to attack rolls will hurt a bit less, Iron Guard's Glare and other stances force enemies to attack the player (with their fantastic AC) or suffer, Shield Block will let you add the tower shield's AC bonus +4 (for a total of +8) to an ally's AC every few rounds... the class is just great for being a defensive player.

Also, at 11th level the player can pretty easily afford an Animated (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm) shield. They still suffer the penalty to attack, but can use a two-handed weapon (which is better from an offensive perspective because it adds 1.5 strength to damage and has double returns with the Power Attack feat). Just stow the shield when you're not using it, so you don't have to deal with the penalty to skill checks (this applies whether you're using an Animated shield or not).

There's also a couple of weird things you can do to make yourself even more defensive. The coolest of these is probably getting a second shield for your main hand. I'd go with a spiked heavy shield; specifically one made of riverine (special material from Stormwrack). That way you can shield bash with the heavy shield (you'd probably want the Improved Shield Bash feat, but it's not completely necessary), and because half its AC bonus is a deflection bonus instead of a shield bonus, you can stack that deflection bonus with the shield bonus from the tower shield.

[Zaq]

Get a power point reserve and take Deflective Armor, from Races of Stone. Costs two feats, but it makes your armor bonus apply to your touch AC, meaning that it's much harder to just ignore it. A dip in psychic warrior will take care of one feat and the PP cost (or invest a little more to get more feats).

Very frustrating to spend so much time and energy clanking around in big metal clothes only to have someone just walk up to you and ignore your armor by poking you with a touch attack, right? Might as well prevent that.

[ZamielVanWeber]

The feat shield ward adds your shield's bonus to a variety of things such as touch AC and resisting grapple. Sadly it needs shield specialization but +5 to those alone is not a bad trade off (more if the shield is magical).

[PoeticallyPsyco]

The feat shield ward adds your shield's bonus to a variety of things such as touch AC and resisting grapple. Sadly it needs shield specialization but +5 to those alone is not a bad trade off (more if the shield is magical).

Bizarrely, you can't get Shield Specialization for a tower shield. This is prime house rule territory, because there's nothing even slightly game breaking about making a tower shield more effective.


Get a power point reserve and take Deflective Armor, from Races of Stone. Costs two feats, but it makes your armor bonus apply to your touch AC, meaning that it's much harder to just ignore it. A dip in psychic warrior will take care of one feat and the PP cost (or invest a little more to get more feats).

Very frustrating to spend so much time and energy clanking around in big metal clothes only to have someone just walk up to you and ignore your armor by poking you with a touch attack, right? Might as well prevent that.

You can save the feats by making the plate mail out of riverine (super-compressed swirling water, from Stormwrack). It's only half as effective as the feats (only half your armor bonus becomes a deflection bonus), but it's a lost cheaper in terms of opportunity cost. You also couldn't use the double shield technique I mentioned above with riverine armor, on the off chance you were considering that.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I forgot that tower shields are not specialized heavy shields. Welp, I used it to great effect on my warblade and relied on diamond mind maneuvers for damage so that an enemy who ignored me was suitably punished.

[Biggus]

He might want to have a look at Races of Stone. On p.155-158 there's heavy plate armor which gives +9AC and an extreme shield which is intermediate between a heavy shield and a tower shield, so he could keep the "very heavy shield" theme without some of the disadvantages of the tower shield (it requires a feat to use though). There are also two Heavy Armor Optimization feats on p.141 which increase the armor bonus further and reduce the ACP. If the armor and shield are mithral, you can get the ACP penalty quite low even for heavy plate and an extreme shield (there's also the Nimbleness armor special ability (MiC p.13) which also reduces the ACP and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus by 1).

He might also want to have a look at Person Man's Guide to Shields (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?123630-3-X-Person-Man-s-Guide-to-Shields).

Has he decided on what class(es) he's going to be yet?

[rediridesence]

i think hes looking at knight, and barbarian. (hes making his 1st level as fighter to gain proficiencies)

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Interestingly, Crusader is proficient in all shields. That apparently includes quite a few exotic shields I didn't know about before today. I'm gonna have to look into that...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

As far as shields go, a tower shield is basically a pavise, something you set up as stationery cover for you or someone else to hide behind while firing arrows. It imposes a penalty on attacks when carrying it because it's too unwieldy to effectively fight with. If he wants to use a very large yet mobile and combat-effective shield, he should use an extreme shield in Races of Stone. That requires a feat for exotic shield proficiency, and it has the same AC bonus as a heavy shield when you spend a feat on Shield Specialization. He'll want Shield Ward anyway (or Parrying Shield in LoM with an extreme shield), so as far as game mechanics go, he's better off with a heavy shield, and he can just describe it however he wants.

Regardless of what he gets, he'll want that shield to be animated so he can use a two-handed weapon. If he's making physical attacks but using heavy armor and a big shield, he's not going to be of any use if he's not hitting hard. If that's not the look he wants for his character, then Crusader is likely the only class that will make it viable in game mechanics, unless he's some kind of primary spellcaster.



For heavy armor, you can't really go wrong with Mithral Full Plate. It counts as medium armor for movement and abilities that are limited by your armor category, but it otherwise still counts as heavy armor and can benefit from Heavy Armor Optimization and Deflective Armor.



For what classes he wants to use, it really depends on what he wants the character to do, other than look the part. He could make a single-classed Cleric and accomplish exactly the same look, and probably have a more effective character. If he wants to be a powerful defender who can keep enemies away from his allies and focusing on him, he'll need to be large size, or have some kind of mechanic that can accomplish this. A Dragonfire Adept or Dragonborn of Bahamut with Entangling Exhalation would work, as it keeps opponents debuffed and hinders them from moving past him to attack softer targets. A large character with Combat Reflexes and Knock-Back, and possibly also Knock-Down, is probably the ideal choice for what he's trying to accomplish.



If he goes the large size route (which is still possible as a Human), I'd say go Fighter 9/ Warblade 2 staring out, with the final build being Fighter 9/ Warblade 10/ Fighter 1. Use the Dungeoncrasher ACF in Dungeonscape, the Zhentarim Soldier substitution levels (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) (reflavored if necessary), and of course the Dead Levels (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a) class features. Feats should include Hidden Talent (XPH), Heavy Armor Optimization, Deflective Armor, Shield Specialization, Shield Ward, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Knock-Back, and Imperious Command, with the Never Outnumbered skill trick. At 20th level he can spend his Fighter 10 bonus feat on Weapon Supremacy in PH2 if he has all the other prerequisites by then. This character smacks opponents back on every swing, and deals absurd damage if they hit a solid obstacle (such as the ground if he's flying above them). He can spend a swift action every round to intimidate an opponent and make them cower for a round, then be shaken the following round, and if he repeatedly uses it against the same target they're escalated to frightened and then panicked. Once per encounter he can affect every opponent within ten feet with that intimidate check. Get the Fearsome property in Drow of the Undeardark on his armor, and he can intimidate as a move-action every turn as well, and still have a standard action to make an attack.

That large size route is a hard-hitting, imposing/intimidating figure that should fit what he's going for. If he's insistent on sticking to Human, then Enlarge Person + Permanency can still accomplish this. Say he hired an NPC spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spell) who had a Ring of Enduring Arcana to put both of those on him at a caster level of 20th. That would only cost 3,700 gp, and with a Dispel DC of 35, he likely won't need to worry about losing it any time soon. He could even say he had a Cleric with the Strength and Planning domains and a Strand of Prayer Beads and the Divine Spell Power feat, in addition to the Ring of Enduring Arcana, cast those on him at a caster level of 28. That would only be 4,180 gp, and the dispel DC would be 43, basically impossible unless they have the Inquisition domain or use Disjunction.



If he wants to actually carry the shield, then there are ways to do that and still make it viable. If he switches to Warforged with Adamantine Body, he'll get a slam attack that adds 1.5x Str to the damage if it's the only weapon he attacks with. He won't get iterative attacks, but with Crusader he can use standard-action maneuvers that hit hard and won't get multiple attacks anyway. He can even add Dragonborn of Bahamut onto that, still get Adamantine Body because he's still a Warforged, and still get everything that comes with the living construct type/subtype. In that case the adamantine dragon tank can spam entangling exhalation to keep opponents debuffed, and use martial strikes on the turns in between. Take Improved Fortification since he can heal himself as needed.

In that case I'd go Crusader 5/ Binder 1/ Hellreaver 5 starting out, and take all future levels in Crusader. Always bind Naberius for fast ability healing, and make his Con score an odd-numbered stat. He can spam Hellreaver abilities every round to heal or hit harder until he's out of holy fury points, then take 2 Con damage to refill the holy fury pool. He'll fast heal one point of that Con damage the same round he uses it, then the other point on the next round, so with an odd number on that stat his Con modifier will never change and it's less bookkeeping. He'll hit decently hard between Furious Strikes and martial strikes, he'll keep opponents busy with entangling exhalation so they can't just ignore him, and he'll be able to spam heals every turn without sacrificing attacks to keep himself and his party topped up.

[OGDojo]

i think hes looking at knight, and barbarian. (hes making his 1st level as fighter to gain proficiencies)

okay so i have been blessed with the knowledge that is the Knight class for D&D 3.5 PHB2

IT gets an ability CALLED
Bulwark of Defense: When you reach 3rd level, an opponent that begins its turn in your threatened area treats all the squares that you threaten as difficult terrain. Your strict vigilance and active defensive maneuvers force your opponents to move with care.
it also gets an ability called:
Shield Ally: Starting at 6th level, as an immediate action you can opt to absorb part of the damage dealt to an adjacent ally. Each time this ally takes damage from a physical attack before your next turn, you can take half this damage on yourself. The target takes the other half as normal. You can only absorb damage from physical melee attacks and ranged attacks, such as an incoming arrow or a blow from a sword, not from spells and other effects.
It also can get some cool feats like:
Stand Still: which allows you to expend a power point (also gained by taking a feat) to stop someone from entering or leaving a square
Hold the Line: You may make an attack of opportunity against a charging opponent who enters an area you threaten. Your attack of opportunity happens immediately before the charge attack is resolved.
Step Up: when an opponent moves away from you can can follow them.
he gets all martial weapon proficiency and all shields except tower shield and all armor.

I shall now refer you to my build i posted a while back for the Knight. you can replace any of the feats with the tower shield feat, probably the first two in the list because they wont help unless he has a pretty decent reach, i built my knight to have a 30 ft reach with a kusarigama and he was meant to stop everyone and everything from entering that 30 ft radius.

Knight Build by OGDojo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?591247-Knight-Build-Feats-(3-5-and-PF))

[ShurikVch]

Classes:

Among the Fighter variants in the Dragon #310 is the Shield Bearer. Like all Fighter variants in that issue, it can switch bonus feats for special abilities. Most of them aren't that noteworthy (improving armored speed, +1 max. Dex, +1 dodge to AC, +2 to AC vs crits) but one is the Shield Strike: The Shield Bearer may use a readied Shield as if it were a free hand for purposes of special maneuvers, such as Stunning Fist & Deflect Arrows.

Purple Dragon Knight - the 1st-level CF Heroic Shield: using Aid Another to protect gives +4 to AC (instead usual +2)

Tactical Soldier - Defensive Shield: from the 4th level, whenever a tactical soldier fights defensively, two adjacent allies get +2 dodge to AC (but no penalty to attack)


Feats:
Active Shield Defense - fighting defensively and using a shield, you don't get standard penalties on AoO; when using the total defense and a shield, you still threaten the area around you as normal
Agile Shield Fighter - when using shield bash and weapon attacks in a full attack, you get -2 penalties to attacks (instead the usual TWF penalties)
Improved Shield Bash (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedShieldBash)
Shield Charge - bash an enemy on charge - get free trip attempt (which wouldn't provoke AoO)
Shield Ward - shield bonus to touch AC, and to to resist bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, or trip attempts against you
Shieldmate (Miniatures Handbook) - friendly creatures adjacent to you get a +1 shield bonus to AC (+2 - if Tower Shield)
Improved Shieldmate - as above, except +2 (+3)
Shield Snare (Dragon #309) - as a readied action, disarm attacker with your shield (attacker can't AoO you, or try to disarm you on failed attempt)
Improved Shield Snare - using Shield Snare allow to later AoO the enemy; also, +2 on attacks vs disarmed enemies

[RNightstalker]

I posted a Dwarven Fighter build recently that essentially focused on that. It wouldn't be too much to change it to human to suit the needs of the player.

Here's the link:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?595175-Dwarven-Fighter-Build

[ShurikVch]

Also, Devoted Defender PrC (Sword and Fist): CFs - Harm's Way (switch places with creature you defending, if they're under attack and within 5' of you), Defensive Strike (AoO on those who attack whoever you protecting in melee), and Deflect Attack (1/turn, if your charge is within 5' and under attack, you may attempt to make a Ref save to deflect it)

And Ironsoul Forgemaster PrC (Magic of Incarnum) with Shield Bond

[Falontani]

Dwarf Paladin 2/Cleric 1/Monk 2/Knight 3 Argent Fist 2/War Nind 5/Deep Warden 2

Feats to look at: Serenity, getting Kusari Gama or a spinning blade as a monk weapon, shield ward, focused armor, maybe throw a few crusader on the end of this thing.

Anyways, add your con and wis mods to your ac while heavily armored and wearing a shield. Swap flurry of blows for decisive strike so you make fewer strong attacks that hit multiple people. Add your wis mod to saves. Creatures can't take 5 ft steps while in difficult terrain, and move at half speed, this includes air borne creatures.

Really busy so I can't hash out a full build atm

[Particle_Man]

i think hes looking at knight, and barbarian. (hes making his 1st level as fighter to gain proficiencies)

Well Knight has to be lawful to use knight's challenge and lawful barbarians can't rage. What would the player give up?

I would keep it simple and go with Crusader. Maybe dip cleric (or go heavy on cleric and dip crusader) and to Ruby Knight Vindicator, if you want to add some options.

But really there is nothing wrong with Crusader 11 as a tank build. Especially as it has a stance to grant Aoo's if enemies move away and a maneuver that forces an opponent to stop moving. A reach weapon wouldn't hurt if you can animate the shield, but even that is more to taste. Perhaps get Extra Granted Maneuver, the feat for more options per round.