Destroying Equipment? Ever worthwhile?

[SangoProduction]

Let's assume for a brief moment that you suffer no consequences of destroying your potential loot, due to being able to repair/rebuild it, or otherwise find more loot which wasn't being used so you keep with WBL.

So, now that the biggest hurdle has been overcome for such a build, is there anything to buoy it in to moderate usefulness? You seem really set to screw over martial characters, since most don't have improved unarmed attacks, and if they do, they are probably a monk, which is probably a win on its own. And if they aren't monk, then they aren't doing a Greatsword's damage + Power Attack on you. You can also obliterate spell component pouches with relative ease, if you're focused on destroying equipment, so that should be nice.

But you are pretty much useless against "monster" fights. IE....where the enemy doesn't have equipment for you to destroy, and so you have to resort to a fall back plan.

Is there anything else to be considered?

[DrMotives]

It could be good if there's a macguffin you need to take out. Also, the combat brute feat allows you to sunder and immediately cleave right after, which could be nice.
If the enemy has alignment-based weapons you can't use, smash 'em. You don't want to put more unholy swords on the black market for the BBEG of the future to just buy anyway, right?

[pabelfly]

Even if you aren't losing loot that you can sell, you're taking feats and items and so forth for sundering items that you could instead be using to boost damage, or that gives you other options in combat or outside of it. So there's the opportunity cost in the build that's one issue. As you've already worked out, many opponents don't actually have weapons, so you've now got a combat option that often won't help you against many enemies, including some of the more difficult enemies of DnD.

The other issue is... sundering items doesn't actually hurt your opponent unless you have feats to do that. You might make your opponent slightly less capable, but you could just be hitting them in the face with your weapon instead and getting them closer to dropping completely.

I don't think sundering is often a good combat option, even if you disregard the loss of wealth that it causes.

[Saintheart]

Even if you aren't losing loot that you can sell, you're taking feats and items and so forth for sundering items that you could instead be using to boost damage, or that gives you other options in combat or outside of it. So there's the opportunity cost in the build that's one issue. As you've already worked out, many opponents don't actually have weapons, so you've now got a combat option that often won't help you against many enemies, including some of the more difficult enemies of DnD.

The other issue is... sundering items doesn't actually hurt your opponent unless you have feats to do that. You might make your opponent slightly less capable, but you could just be hitting them in the face with your weapon instead and getting them closer to dropping completely.

I don't think sundering is often a good combat option, even if you disregard the loss of wealth that it causes.

Agreed - when you get down to it, it's adding another roll to the attack sequence in which something can just go wrong. I say that being, as of five minutes ago, the proud father of two natural 1 rolls in a row. On an online roller.

[Mr Adventurer]

You can also use the tactic to attack spell focuses and expensive spell components.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you sunder the loot you would otherwise sell and keep the stuff you want to use, you're effectively doubling the amount of wealth you have for the loot you destroy, due to the 50% markdown on saleable loot.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Make a Psion, get Time Hop (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeHop.htm) to temporarily remove an item from an opponent's possession without destroying it, or Energy Missile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyMissile.htm) to destroy (multiple) objects when needed.

Destroying items is best used on mundane objects: spell component pouches, holy symbols/divine focus, an opponent's belt so their pants fall down around their ankles, the pillar holding up the roof above the enemies, the bridge they're walking on, a boat opponents are using, a door blocking the way, a rope or chain that's holding something up, etc.

There are a few other effects that can relieve an opponent of an item, but they're fairly few and far between. Heat Metal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heatMetal.htm) should cause an opponent to drop the item targeted (it worked on Aragorn in Fangorn Forest). Shatter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shatter.htm) exists but its uses are fairly limited. Dragonfire Inspiration adds energy damage that can be applied to any objects attacked, and anyone/anything dealt fire damage by it must save or catch on fire every time it hits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#catchingOnFire) since it's a noninstantaneous magical fire effect. There are Stone Dragon strikes in ToB that ignore an object's hardness, so you can effectively sunder adamantine objects.


As far as building a viable character that likes to break stuff, I think just going Psion and picking up Expanded Knowledge: Energy Missile is the way to go. However, I sort of like the idea of a DFI Bard/Warblade with Draconic Heritage to switch it to sonic damage, Improved Sunder, and an Adamantine Shatterspike (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#shatterspike).

[Psyren]

I'm assuming Pathfinder here because (a) repairing damaged or broken magic items is easier in PF, so Sunder is less likely to wreck your treasure, and (b) sunder is less useful in 3.5, e.g. not being able to sunder armor.

It's true that Sunder costs build resources that could go towards optimizing damage, but the opportunity cost isn't as high as it might appear. In general, there's only so much you can do featwise to pump your damage really, and having a secondary strategy isn't a bad thing for a martial to have. On top of that, you can pump Sunder checks to substantial levels, because it benefits both from things that boost attack rolls and from things that boost combat maneuver checks; this might actually make hitting your opponent's gear easier than hitting them in some cases. This is compounded by the fact that an enemy's CMD may be lower than their AC in a lot of cases since armor, natural armor, and shield bonuses don't apply.

Of the combat maneuvers, Sunder is not the best (Trip and Dirty Trick are generally superior) but I would put it above Disarm and Grapple (the latter of which is good but requires basically dedicating your entire build including class abilities to it in order for it to be good at high levels, whereas Sunder can be viable even as an off-strategy for certain enemy types.)

[stack]

Since I know the OP sometimes posts threads about Spheres of Power/Might material, I will say that sunder is worthwhile on a blacksmith since they have the ability to transfer excess damage, get bonus damage, and can fix broken items afterwards. Throw in brute or sniper sphere to taste.

[Asmotherion]

Mage's Disjunction. Non magical gear is worthless at level 20.

Sunder attempts with your summons/undead etc. Some spells are also good for this (shatter for example).

Summon (Or better Planar Bind) a Fiendish (template) Rust Monster; Or polymorph something into one.

[Jack_Simth]

Yes. Disjunction, or Chained Greater Dispel Magic + Chained Quickened Shatter. If you're not worried about the wealth lost, those can be worthwhile. Partly because they also have a good chance of getting rid of buff spells, too.

The action cost for anything short of one of those two is probably prohibitively expensive in combat, especially if you have to invest permanent resources (feats).

[Blackhawk748]

I mean, its pretty neat at low levels or in E6 when most of your enemies are running around with mundane weapons you probably don't care about. My party stops carrying swords and axes back to town to sell after level 2, only keeping armor (which has good weight to worth ratio) and bows (particularly composite bows with adjusted strength) back. SO ya, go nuts and break swords or shields at the lower levels, probably wasn't affecting your money anyway.

[Mr Adventurer]

Summon (Or better Planar Bind) a Fiendish (template) Rust Monster; Or polymorph something into one.

A Fiendish Rust Monster is a magical beast, and Planar Binding can only call Outsiders or Elementals.

[Psyren]

A Fiendish Rust Monster is a magical beast, and Planar Binding can only call Outsiders or Elementals.

Half-Fiend?

[Mr Adventurer]

Actually I dunno, are templated creatures legitimate targets for Planar Binding? Could get silly, if so.

[Willie the Duck]

I think the question comes down to how often your DM will throw you up against opponents who are weapon-wielding humanoids (or similar), who either will not have backup weapons, or the backup weapon is so much inferior that designing your build around this strategy is a worthwhile expenditure.

[Psyren]

Actually I dunno, are templated creatures legitimate targets for Planar Binding? Could get silly, if so.

You can't shapeshift into them, but conjuring them seems to be fine. After all, half the summon list is templated.

They are harder to successfully bind though - having better saves, Cha and SR than the base creature usually.

(Binding should key off CR rather than HD I think - Both 5e and Starfinder made this change.)

[Mr Adventurer]

Yeah, Binding is a weird one. I've been looking at it lately, I works definitely rework it if I had the opportunity.