Does Veil of Allure increase DC for all spell-like abilities?

[Almostdead]

A veil of allure increases the save DC of your enchantment spells or spell-like abilities, as well as the Charisma-based save DCs of your extraordinary or supernatural abilities, by 2.

I'm not sure if this item increases DC for all spell-like abilities, or just the spell-like abilities which "mimic enchantment spells".

For reference, there is a feat with similar description:

Your caster level and save DCs for enchantment spells and warlock invocations increase by 1.

[Zaq]

RAW is ambiguous. I feel that RAI is clear, though.

When the RAW is truly ambiguous (not merely poorly written to say something other than what is meant—ambiguous in that there’s legitimately more than one valid reading without twisting things) but the RAI is clear, I personally feel like it only makes sense to go with the obvious RAI reading, but of course you won’t find that spelled out by WotC.

[Saintheart]

Agreed, RAI was just enchantment spell-like abilities. Every other enhancement in that sentence is qualified by a school or the fact the ability has to be CHA-based, saying that the second one applies to all (Sp)s is having a bit of a lend. Still, it's RAW, and it's poor grammar, and therefore...

[Psyren]

You can parse it two ways, because English is imprecise like that:

"A veil of allure increases the save DC of your [enchantment] [spells or spell-like abilities], as well as the Charisma-based save DCs of your [extraordinary or supernatural abilities, by 2."

"A veil of allure increases the save DC of your [enchantment spells] or [spell-like abilities], as well as the Charisma-based save DCs of your [extraordinary or supernatural abilities, by 2."

For me, RAI seems pretty clearly for the former so that's what I'd go with. The name and nature of the item don't seem like it was intended to be universally applicable.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'll agree that it only affects enchantment spells and enchantment spell-like abilities, both RAI and RAW.

However, if we're taking a strictly RAW approach to this item, spellcasting is an extraordinary ability. (All abilities are extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm), and it's definitely not either of the other two.) So a Sorcerer, Bard, Dread Necromancer, etc. with this item would get +2 DC to all his spells.

[Troacctid]

It applies to any Ex and Su abilities regardless of the school they're affiliated with, so I don't agree that the RAI is obvious.

[Psyren]

However, if we're taking a strictly RAW approach to this item, spellcasting is an extraordinary ability. (All abilities are extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm), and it's definitely not either of the other two.)

All special abiltiies are; personally I view spellcasting from class levels as a natural ability, but I've seen this become a 40-page debate on this board in the past so that's probably where I'll leave it.


It applies to any Ex and Su abilities regardless of the school they're affiliated with, so I don't agree that the RAI is obvious.

They have to be Charisma-based though, so the thematic tie is still here. It won't, for example, make your Con-based venom or your Str-based constrict effect any stronger.

[Troacctid]

Most spell-like abilities are Charisma-based. 🤷

[Silva Stormrage]

Most spell-like abilities are Charisma-based. 🤷

Not all though. And most SU abilities are Charisma Based as well and they still called out only charisma based ones count. I would side on the only enchantment SLAs qualify ruling. That seems to be the most consistent reading.

[Psyren]

Most spell-like abilities are Charisma-based. 🤷

I think you misread me - I was saying the second part reads "the DC of any charisma-based Ex/Su abilities gets boosted too." As I noted above, there are plenty of Ex and Su abilities not based on Cha that therefore would be unaffected by the veil, such as most poisons (Ex, generally Con-based.)

[Almostdead]

I see, I accept the majority's opinion then.
Thanks:smallredface: