What class to play?

[Laserlight]

I'll be rejoining a campaign after six months away, and am wondering what to play.

Other party members: moon druid, arcane archer, some kind of rogue, "high CHA character, maybe a melee bard or paladin".
Setting is Tal'Dorei, races available are PHB, VGTE, hobgoblins, goliaths, genasi.
Point buy.
I'll be joining at L8 or L9, which will be fun--I've never gotten a 5e character to L9 before.
Standard kit + 3000gp + one Uncommon item.

I've recently played Tempest Cleric and Divination Wizard, so I don't want to do those specific subclasses again, although I'm fine with running a caster of some sort.

Suggestions?

At the moment I'm thinking Order Cleric, Evocation or Abjuration Wizard, Life Cleric or perhaps Lore Bard. Any of those, or another class, stand out for this party mix?

[JumboWheat01]

Looks like you have a relatively heavy martial party, and they'll generally work on one enemy at a time, so either something that lets you help them burn down enemies fast, like a warlock, or someone who could spread the pain, like an evoker wizard or similar sorcerer.

On the other hand, it also looks like a pretty combat-heavy party, so maybe someone with more non-combat support through skills and other abilities, like a Ranger, a Lore Bard or maybe a Knowledge Cleric or Enchanter.

Either way, I'd recommend a character that does most of their combat work at range, I'm assuming the Rogue is more of the butt-stabbing variety.

[Laserlight]

Either way, I'd recommend a character that does most of their combat work at range, I'm assuming the Rogue is more of the butt-stabbing variety.

I suppose I could take an armored cleric and wade into melee, but I just did that with Tempest, so I'm okay with staying back.
The rogue hasn't decided whether to be ranged or melee.

[Grod_The_Giant]

How 'bout a Divine Soul Sorcerer? The group looks like it could use some AoE, control, and healing, and the Divine Soul can do a good job at all of that.

[Ogre Mage]

Abjuration Wizard 7-8/Knowledge Domain Cleric 1 multiclass would be thematically appropriate. It would also dramatically increase your modifiers on two knowledge skills, give you medium armor+shield proficiency and add 1st level cleric spells to your repertoire. Your party lacks control and this would be a strong control build that is much less squishy than your typical control wizard. The Order and Life Domains could also work for a 1 level dip, but I don't think they fit as well thematically as Knowledge Domain with a wizard.

[Mikaleus]

As you’ve recently played a melee tempest Cleric, I say go with a wizard. Evocation and blast your foes whilst sculpting them to not harm your allies.

[AHF]

Abjuration Wizard 7-8/Knowledge Domain Cleric 1 multiclass would be thematically appropriate. It would also dramatically increase your modifiers on two knowledge skills, give you medium armor+shield proficiency and add 1st level cleric spells to your repertoire. Your party lacks control and this would be a strong control build that is much less squishy than your typical control wizard. The Order and Life Domains could also work for a 1 level dip, but I don't think they fit as well thematically as Knowledge Domain with a wizard.

If you do this, I'd think about getting a Sentinel Shield for your uncommon item. Getting advantage on perception rolls is always useful but if you are going to be a control caster then having advantage on initiative should let you be one of the first to act which could greatly enhance your martial party's effectiveness if the enemies are already debuffed, held, etc.

[Tallytrev813]

If it were me I'd play either

A.) A Lore Bard with an Instrument of the Bards (Cittern)



or B.) Paladin, Vengeance or Ancients, and take Gauntlets of Ogre Power as my uncommon item and use the cash to buy full plate.

That would let you ride with 16/16 Charisma and Constitution, then put like a 14 or 10 in Strength or Dex (Or 12/12), and dump Int/Wis.

Role Variant Human and take Polearm Master, then maybe Warcaster or GWM...then you could go Mounted Combatant for the Find Steed or your could pump Charisma either way.

Spear/Shield Pally.

[jaappleton]

Order Cleric granting attacks to the Rogue so it can Sneak Attack again would be a solid, effective strategy. Cast Bless on them to trigger it at the start of battle. Even better if the Moon Druid leads off with Faerie Fire to generate Advantage for everybody.

EDIT: Though TallyTrev's suggestion of Ancients Paladin is AMAZING and I'm somewhat ashamed I didn't think of it.

Look, its channel divinity isn't the best... No doubt about that. But the +Cha Mod to saving throws and their level 7 Aura simply can't be beat. They grant allies resistance to all spell damage, how is that NOT amazing?! Should be heavily considered. Sure, the Oath spells are a bit bland, but you get Moonbeam always prepared (which is AMAZING when you need it). Besides, you're a Paladin. Spell slots are just fuel for SMITE!

[Swimbley]

Hexblade, Urchin Half Elf. I’m basically new to DND and just picked it on a lark.

He’s only 3rd level & does all the sneaking, a ton of tanking due to false life invocation (when running sword and board), most dps by a huge margin and has a higher charisma and better negotiating skills than the Bard. Warlock Hexblade seems pretty broken, lol.

Fought with a glave a few nights ago behind our warrior and Paladin, playing with the idea of summoning a +1,+1 Maul, Max dice that’s a 44 pt crit @ 3rd level if my curse & hex is on & with elven advantage next level I’ll crit on a 19 with 3d 20.(If my calcs are right) Plan on going swashbuckler so I can stack my chr on initiative, fancy footwork, add sneak attack damage to hex etc.

@ 8th level he’d 5 in hexblade (2nd attack incantation) and 3 in rogue for swashbuckler. At 9 he could get another for 4 in rogue for a feat or @ 6th hexblade (too dang cool to have that specter for battlefield control, setting up advantage etc.) for the raise specter feature, so you’d have a pet to command after you get your first kill. That plus mirror image and all the rogue stuff should be a pretty good improvised defense. I’ll end up going 6 in hex blade then the rest in rogue for all the feats, skills and stat bonuses.

[Nagog]

I suppose I could take an armored cleric and wade into melee, but I just did that with Tempest, so I'm okay with staying back.
The rogue hasn't decided whether to be ranged or melee.

If you're going armored cleric, might I suggest Forge Domain? Heavy Armor prof and the ability to essentially "enchant" weapon or armor to +1 on a whim. Channel Divinity for it is pretty situational and probably won't actually be useful at any point (also because crafting the item in question is actually cheaper), but the daily +1 enchantment is well worth it, particularly when combined with the 6th level Fire resistance and automatic +1 AC bonus to heavy armor you wear, meaning with heavy armor and a shield you can achieve 22 AC at level 6 without any magic items from the DM. Take a few levels in Fighter or Paladin from there to get multi-attack/Smite, and you become a powerful support/healer//tank. The only thing you can't do in this is stealth, which if your Rogue is being a Rogue, your party has covered.

[paladinn]

Try playing a War Mage.. I've heard mixed things about it and I'd love to hear how it pans out for you:)

[Laserlight]

I agree with the suggestions that we need AoE, control, snd possibly some healing, so I'm leaning towards a ranged caster rather than, say, hexblade/rogue.

Candidates right now:

1. Abjuration or Evocation with a possible Order 1 dip. I played a Knowledge 1/Divination X with this group already, so I'm kinda wanting something different...but he did prevent a TPK at least twice and was very handy to have around.

2. Divine Soul

3. Celestial Tomelock, probably INT-casting, maybe with Wizard 2 dip

4. Lore Bard, depending on what the "maybe a sword bard, maybe a paladin" player decides to bring. I've never really gotten the appeal of Lore Bards, maybe I need to play one and see for myself

At some point I'll throw these into MPMB's character sheet and see if one of them stands out.

[Tallytrev813]

I agree with the suggestions that we need AoE, control, snd possibly some healing, so I'm leaning towards a ranged caster rather than, say, hexblade/rogue.

Candidates right now:

1. Abjuration or Evocation with a possible Order 1 dip. I played a Knowledge 1/Divination X with this group already, so I'm kinda wanting something different...but he did prevent a TPK at least twice and was very handy to have around.

2. Divine Soul

3. Celestial Tomelock, probably INT-casting, maybe with Wizard 2 dip

4. Lore Bard, depending on what the "maybe a sword bard, maybe a paladin" player decides to bring. I've never really gotten the appeal of Lore Bards, maybe I need to play one and see for myself

At some point I'll throw these into MPMB's character sheet and see if one of them stands out.

Many argue Lore Bard is the premier 5e class.

The lure is multi-faceted.

1.) Cutting Words is a-mazeballs.
2.) Early magical secrets at level 6 is nuts, depending on party composition.

I hadnt realized there was a player who was playing Paladin OR Bard.
I'd roll whatever he didnt. If he comes with a pally, play bard. If he plays bard, role a pally.

[Laserlight]

My DM just said "my heart grew a size when I heard Halfling lore bard." I think that's a hint.

[Tallytrev813]

My DM just said "my heart grew a size when I heard Halfling lore bard." I think that's a hint.

Def a good choice. I like half elf for the skills, but Halfling gets some awesome racials like Lucky.

For your level 6 Magical Secrets, i'd suggest:

1.) Counterspell. Always Counterspell. Jack of All Trades adds to your counterspell roll, so Lore Bards tend to be some of the best counterspellers in the game.

2.) Crusaders Mantle.
Your party is a Moon Druid (Melee Attacks), an Arcane Archer (Ranged attacks), and a Rogue (Melee attacks) and what will likely be a Paladin (Melee Attacks) if you're rolling a bard.

To add 1d4 radiant to EACH of their attacks would be a spectacular use of concentration. Thats effectively 6d4-8d4 radiant damage per round if you can keep everyone in the Aura.

If they need you to heal, you could also take something like Aura of Vitality - but it will compete with your Bardic Inspiration die.

[Laserlight]

Let's see.. 8 16 14 10 10 16, then L4 is +2 CHA to 18.
How about the L8 feat?

Dip for armor proficiency?

And the DM has said my Uncommon can be the bard cittern :-)

[JumboWheat01]

I'd go for Resilient(Con). Losing concentration can really deflate things.

[Tallytrev813]

Let's see.. 8 16 14 10 10 16, then L4 is +2 CHA to 18.
How about the L8 feat?

Dip for armor proficiency?

And the DM has said my Uncommon can be the bard cittern :-)

I prefer no dip, straight Lore Bard.

If you're going to dip, Life Cleric or Hexblade Warlock are great choices.

Level 4 should be +2 Cha
Level 8 should probably also be +2 Cha

If you want Resilient (Con) I'd drop Intelligence to 8 and raise Con to 15, then take resilient con to raise the modifier.

Halfling is a good choice, but i'd recommend looking at Half-Elf for the race.
You can start 8, 16, 14, 10, 10, 17
That allows you to use your level 4 ASI to grab a +Cha Feat, then max Cha at level 8.
OR 8, 16, 15, 8, 10, 17 --> Level 4 Can bump BOTH Con/Cha, or take a Cha feat, or take Resil Con, etc.

Or, you could start 8, 16, 15, 10, 10, 16 and level Con with Resilient (Con) after your Cha bump, but i'd recommend the rout listed above.


The key is Halfling gets some great stuff, but Half-Elf gets +2Cha/+1Dex/+1Con AND extra skills - plus you'll get Darkvision (Halfling wont)

[Laserlight]

Judging by the feedback from the other players ("Halfling war kazoo? Halfling! War! Kazoo!"), I think Halfling is pretty much set. :-)

I'm about to fly back to the States so I'll be offline a day or two, but thanks much for the mini bard guide. I'm looking forward to running this character

[Ogre Mage]

Let's see.. 8 16 14 10 10 16, then L4 is +2 CHA to 18.
How about the L8 feat?

Dip for armor proficiency?

And the DM has said my Uncommon can be the bard cittern :-)

If you want to play a halfling, lightfoot halfling is a given for +1 Cha. However, I echo Tally's comment about half-elves. They are born to be bards.

From an optimization standpoint, the lord bard has two major weaknesses and a one level dip into hexblade covers both of them. The first, as you noted, is poor armor class. The hexblade has medium armor and shield proficiency and grants access to the shield spell. That would also mean you only need Dex 14 and can put those extra points elsewhere. The other lore bard weakness is weak direct damage. The hexblade also solves that with eldritch blast (which can be enhanced with hex and hexblade's curse). Even better, both classes are based off charisma so you remain SAD.

I really like Lore Bard X/Hexblade 1 and want to play one but have not had the chance yet. I would not dip more than one level. Going further into hexblade delays your lore bard abilities too much IMO.

[Laserlight]

I think I'm just going to recognize "this character needs to avoid melee" and play it as straight bard. I'll Dodge when I have to.

I'm not seeing Crusader's Mantle as being the pick for Magic Secrets. Four PCs x 2 attacks x 1d4 = 20 damage/turn. By contrast, Fireball does 28 per target, hits multiple targets, and doesn't take Concentration. Or I could take Revivify or Aura of Vitality.

Last time I was with this group, my tomelock had to take Tenser's Disk so I could get their unconscious bodies out of the dungeon, and they TPK'd within a couple of weeks of when I moved away.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Aura of Vitality? In-combat it's Healing Word every round; out-of-combat it's an effective 20d6 of healing split up however you want.

[Tallytrev813]

I think I'm just going to recognize "this character needs to avoid melee" and play it as straight bard. I'll Dodge when I have to.

I'm not seeing Crusader's Mantle as being the pick for Magic Secrets. Four PCs x 2 attacks x 1d4 = 20 damage/turn. By contrast, Fireball does 28 per target, hits multiple targets, and doesn't take Concentration. Or I could take Revivify or Aura of Vitality.

Last time I was with this group, my tomelock had to take Tenser's Disk so I could get their unconscious bodies out of the dungeon, and they TPK'd within a couple of weeks of when I moved away.

Fireball takes your action.

Crusaders Mantle will add that damage PLUS you can cast fireball - or whatever else. In-combat you’ll be surprised at how much more effective it is than your seeing superficially. CM is a passive bonus.

And don’t forget, CM lasts many turns. Fireball is a one time damage.

[Laserlight]

Well, this appears to all be moot. I was getting ready to post Hapwise "Happy" Mathom's charsheet to our group's chat, when the DM announced that he's gotten a new job and is moving 200 miles away. Alas, poor halfling, we hardly knew ye.

[Ogre Mage]

Well, this appears to all be moot. I was getting ready to post Hapwise "Happy" Mathom's charsheet to our group's chat, when the DM announced that he's gotten a new job and is moving 200 miles away. Alas, poor halfling, we hardly knew ye.

Sorry, that sucks. :smallfrown: I think all players have had some variation on that scenario happen at one point. Back in 2002, my DM got his girlfriend pregnant and suddenly left the state. :smalleek: