Which talent to take?

[Reevh]

I'm in a campaign where we're using these talent rules as an alternative to feats:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VvHtaIhUOam4VkNB_lSmn-olS_oQmIYU/view

I just hit level 6 on my Eldritch Knight. He's a 2-handed fighter with a +1 greatsword and mithril plate, human, and already has the Built to Stand and Heavy Armor Master talents. His stats are 18 STR, 9 DEX, 16 CON, 16 INT, 10 WIS, 10 CHA.

I definitely want to get Power Attack this level, which leaves me with 1 more talent point to spend. My existing proficiencies are arcana, athletics, history, and investigation, so those are the only trees I wouldn't have to spend an extra point on to start.

So I'm torn on that second point. Right now my two preferred ideas are:


Tactician
You have martial training that allows you to perform special
combat maneuvers. You gain the following benefits:
• You can use your Intelligence or Wisdom modifier in place
of your Dexterity modifier when rolling initiative.
• Once per short rest, during your turn you can use a bonus
action to issue a command to change tactics. Two friendly
creatures of your choice within 60 feet of you that can see
or hear you exchange their initiative scores. Their scores
must be lower than yours for the feature to apply.

Because that one is History, which I'm also proficient in, that would come with an additional 2 language proficiencies as well.

The other option I'm currently seriously considering is:


Rampage
On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a heavy melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with
one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
That's effectively just the other half of Great Weapon Master.

Any thoughts? Other talents of interest?

[KRSW]

First of all, this is great and also my first time seeing this. I really like it.

With a quick skim: I think the tactician is a good choice, but only if you are going to also take martial adept.
Power Attack is a good choice.

Are you able to gain Martial Adept through the specialty tree instead of normally through history? It seems like you can, since you already have Weapon Training from being a fighter. I would do that instead of tactician.

Rampage is also good, depending on if you foresee fighting a bunch of mooks this could actually be better than power attack. But, it depends on how you plan on playing your character. If you get to 7 and instead of using the Attack action you use Booming Blade/Greenflame Blade and then bonus action attack with War Magic then Rampage becomes pretty useless. But if you are just going to use the attack action then its pretty okay/good.

Another solid choice is +2 Strength.

If you are set on Power Attack this level, I would take Power Attack and then Weapon Training so it turns into Martial Adept for Precision Attack and Trip Attack. Then at level 8 take +2 Strength.

Disclaimer: I am totally new to this talent system so if I am wrong about something just ignore me :)

[Reevh]

First of all, this is great and also my first time seeing this. I really like it.

With a quick skim: I think the tactician is a good choice, but only if you are going to also take martial adept.
Power Attack is a good choice.

Are you able to gain Martial Adept through the specialty tree instead of normally through history? It seems like you can, since you already have Weapon Training from being a fighter. I would do that instead of tactician.

Rampage is also good, depending on if you foresee fighting a bunch of mooks this could actually be better than power attack. But, it depends on how you plan on playing your character. If you get to 7 and instead of using the Attack action you use Booming Blade/Greenflame Blade and then bonus action attack with War Magic then Rampage becomes pretty useless. But if you are just going to use the attack action then its pretty okay/good.

Another solid choice is +2 Strength.

If you are set on Power Attack this level, I would take Power Attack and then Weapon Training so it turns into Martial Adept for Precision Attack and Trip Attack. Then at level 8 take +2 Strength.

Disclaimer: I am totally new to this talent system so if I am wrong about something just ignore me :)

Nah, you've got the idea right! Honestly, the idea of picking up tactician is partly character-based and partly that when I first conceived of this character he was going to be a tank-ish character. We ended up picking up a bear totem barb, so I've switched my focus towards DPS, but I hadn't reconsidered that talent choice. My thought at the time was that if I'm too low on the initiative order, I can't get out in front of the enemies to prevent them from coming at my allies. Now I'm more of a striker than a tank, so it may not make as much sense anymore.

It's true that from level 7 to 10, Rampage doesn't help much, but I expect this campaign to go at least to level 16. I could look at shifting Rampage to a later choice maybe, or just replacing it with Martial Adept as you mentioned. It's a solid choice and gives me some more things to play with than just attacks and reactions. Then again, it's only 2 d6 superiority dice. Maybe I'd be better off doing Martial Training to pick up great weapon fighting style (I currently have defensive style)?

[KRSW]

Its up to you, most people dont like Martial Adept as a feat in the PHB because its only 1d6 and also is a full ASI, but in this talent system it becomes a half feat and also twice the power at 2d6 so its about 4 times as valuable than the PHB version.

It may not be that great even then, but I think adding more options is fun! My main reasoning with Martial Adept is with Precision Attack, just having Precision Attack available allows you to just Power Attack all the time, you have a +5 bonus to hit still while Power Attacking currently. If you have something like Bardic Inspiration or Bless it gets even better. Martial Adept is kind of just insurance for Power Attacking.

Plus, I think its fitting for any fighter to have even if suboptimal.

For GWF fighting style, its decent. Honestly, these talent choices if you just take the logical damage ones I really dont think there are very many bad options, if there are any at all.

For GWF I would actually recommend a defensive option instead though.

There is really so many good options, but some are odd like the Resilient part being locked behind Endurance, I think that is just strictly worse than PHB Resilient, but then you can take Tough as a half feat and also gain Resistance to fire say if your party decides to travel into the depths of Hell to defeat Zariel.

All in all, you have tons of options. I would actually try to be as well rounded as possible, putting Resilient Wisdom as a priority, then taking Tough later on and saving the Resistant feat for something important.

[Finback]

just wanted to add, I've also been using the talents system for my PCs (who also get feats - for many, it's their first time playing D&D, so I wanted it to be really fun), and it allows a degree more "customisation" and flavour for developing the PC.

[KRSW]

Another question I have is, can you take Resilient multiple times? I feel like just taking Resilient Dex and Wis would be really powerful if they are just one point each.

[Bjarkmundur]

This system is amazing! I'll definitely use this for my next campagin! :O

[Reevh]

Another question I have is, can you take Resilient multiple times? I feel like just taking Resilient Dex and Wis would be really powerful if they are just one point each.

No, unless specifically stated, each talent can only be chosen once.

[Reevh]

I think I'm leaning towards Martial Adept now. The ability to turn a miss into a hit twice per short rest with precision attack is a pretty decent damage boost, especially if Power Attack is involved. Instead of getting a little more damage on a hit, it turns 0 damage into 2d6+5+6.

[KRSW]

I think I'm leaning towards Martial Adept now. The ability to turn a miss into a hit twice per short rest with precision attack is a pretty decent damage boost, especially if Power Attack is involved. Instead of getting a little more damage on a hit, it turns 0 damage into 2d6+5+6.

Are you using Find Familiar Help Action for your attacks in combat? I would say that makes Martial Adept with War Magic a better option as you can use the advantage on your first SCAGtrip each round and then your bonus action is taken up every turn. Rampage is situational but still definitely really good. As you said Rampage is only not that great during levels 7-10.

Another thing to think about though, is if your campaign is going to get to tier 4, you may want to take things that scale and get better when you get higher level. If that is the case, I would actually say Rampage may be better than Martial Adept as Martial Adept will be far less valuable in those later levels while Rampage gains power and also Resilient, Tough, Resistant are all really strong even now and later.

BUT, to get to those you need to take Endurance which is pretty meh at most any point in the game outside of a hardcore mega dungeon, but continues to be mildly useful.

For character planning, this is what I would do and honestly the Martial Adept vs Rampage just depends on which one you think would be better for your specific campaign, both are good.

6: Power Attack, and Martial Adept OR Rampage

8: +2 Strength

12: This is where I would take Endurance and Resilient Wisdom

14: Tough and ?

After that its pretty whatever but this is a pretty solid, well-rounded fighter.

Talents I think are good after this:
Resistant
Favored/Lucky
Master of Protection

[Reevh]

Are you using Find Familiar Help Action for your attacks in combat? I would say that makes Martial Adept with War Magic a better option as you can use the advantage on your first SCAGtrip each round and then your bonus action is taken up every turn. Rampage is situational but still definitely really good. As you said Rampage is only not that great during levels 7-10.

Another thing to think about though, is if your campaign is going to get to tier 4, you may want to take things that scale and get better when you get higher level. If that is the case, I would actually say Rampage may be better than Martial Adept as Martial Adept will be far less valuable in those later levels while Rampage gains power and also Resilient, Tough, Resistant are all really strong even now and later.

BUT, to get to those you need to take Endurance which is pretty meh at most any point in the game outside of a hardcore mega dungeon, but continues to be mildly useful.

For character planning, this is what I would do and honestly the Martial Adept vs Rampage just depends on which one you think would be better for your specific campaign, both are good.

6: Power Attack, and Martial Adept OR Rampage

8: +2 Strength

12: This is where I would take Endurance and Resilient Wisdom

14: Tough and ?

After that its pretty whatever but this is a pretty solid, well-rounded fighter.

Talents I think are good after this:
Resistant
Favored/Lucky
Master of Protection

I'm intentionally not taking Find Familiar, because I've done so several times in previous campaigns and it's a minor annoyance at the table (I think the DM's exact words when I said I wasn't taking it this time were 'I will MURDER your owl'), so I'm trying to be a good player/party member about it.

Resilient would be nice, especially since as it stands I will forever have a +0 to the critical Wisdom saves, with no paladin in the group to help me. But yeah, Endurance is a little lackluster and 2 points to get Resilient (when you don't get the +WIS you'd get from the feat) feels like a big lift. Then again, my DM favors long adventuring days, and it's not uncommon for me to spend quite a few hit dice. Having a minimum of 9 HP recovered instead of a minimum of 4 might not be so terrible. I guess that only comes out to an average of 1.5 more HP per hit die. Who'd have thought playing a fighter would feel like I had too few ASIs?

[KRSW]

I'm intentionally not taking Find Familiar, because I've done so several times in previous campaigns and it's a minor annoyance at the table (I think the DM's exact words when I said I wasn't taking it this time were 'I will MURDER your owl'), so I'm trying to be a good player/party member about it.

Resilient would be nice, especially since as it stands I will forever have a +0 to the critical Wisdom saves, with no paladin in the group to help me. But yeah, Endurance is a little lackluster and 2 points to get Resilient (when you don't get the +WIS you'd get from the feat) feels like a big lift. Then again, my DM favors long adventuring days, and it's not uncommon for me to spend quite a few hit dice. Having a minimum of 9 HP recovered instead of a minimum of 4 might not be so terrible. I guess that only comes out to an average of 1.5 more HP per hit die. Who'd have thought playing a fighter would feel like I had too few ASIs?

Haha I definitely understand the no Find Familiar, especially in combat. I think the main benefit of Endurance is the cheaper than PHB Tough, Resilient is about on par with the PHB but instead of having 11 Wisdom you have 10 + better short rest recovery. That and then the possibility of Resistant is just icing on the cake. You take one subpar talent in Endurance but then 2 talents after are about as good or better than the PHB and then you get a pretty unique one with Resistant.

Yeah this alternative to feats is really cool. There is so many different options, I like how the weapon training and armor trees work if you already have the proficiency. I like the changes where it uses proficiency bonus instead of flat numbers like for Heavy Armor Master, Power Attack, Power Shot. So many options for the skill talents too. I haven't read many of them but the ones I have I really like.

[Reevh]

Haha I definitely understand the no Find Familiar, especially in combat. I think the main benefit of Endurance is the cheaper than PHB Tough, Resilient is about on par with the PHB but instead of having 11 Wisdom you have 10 + better short rest recovery. That and then the possibility of Resistant is just icing on the cake. You take one subpar talent in Endurance but then 2 talents after are about as good or better than the PHB and then you get a pretty unique one with Resistant.

Yeah this alternative to feats is really cool. There is so many different options, I like how the weapon training and armor trees work if you already have the proficiency. I like the changes where it uses proficiency bonus instead of flat numbers like for Heavy Armor Master, Power Attack, Power Shot. So many options for the skill talents too. I haven't read many of them but the ones I have I really like.

Persuasion is a particularly powerful one. You should have a look at that.