Lv 4 Swashbuckler Help/insight/tips for Multi-classing (Or NOT)

[Daddyflintstone]

My stats are as follows:
Str-8 Dex-15 Con-14 int-8 wis-12 char-14

Currently lv 4 and on a team of 6 others (7 people total) 2 warlocks. 1 druid. 1 wizard. 1 barbarian. 1 sorcerer.

Racial feature for Elf I have mage hand cantrip that DM is allowing me to utilize for sleight of hand checks and thieves tools

I took Lucky feat instead of stat improvement.

Lately my teammates aside from 2 are terrible at team playing. 2 warlocks and I consistently playing along with each other's strengths, the others complaining about the free **** we get them. (Obviously no more of that)

So I'm looking for something with survivability or overwhelming damage.
DM has also allowed me a homebrew finesse weapon, with 10ft range if that's needed info

As per my stats. My available multi class options are as follows:
Bard, Blood Hunter, Fighter, Sorcerer, Warlock.

[Grimmnist]

I think Blood Hunter requires 13 Str or Dex, AND 13 Wis (at least the older versions did). In terms of multiclassing Fighter/Swash is a really good combo, Fighter gets you Medium Armor and Shields and more HP so you can survive more easily. Otherwise you probably don't want to multiclass very heavily. Your Dex is pretty low for a level 4 rogue so you will want the ASI's more than class features from dipping.

[Trickery]

It sounds like your party could use martial characters. There's nothing wrong with pure Rogue, and one more level of Rogue will increase your survivability quite a bit due to uncanny dodge. I say stick with that for level 5.

From there, it depends on what you want and that weapon you have. Is it one handed or two? Is it usable with any fighting styles? Does it qualify for polearm mastery?

If you have a one handed build and can take the bonus action before you attack, then aiming to pick up Shield Master is very good. If your weapon is two handed and qualifies for polearm mastery, you'd be silly not to take that feat.

Out of the multiclass options you provided, you'd probably get the most out of fighter. Five levels of rogue followed by five in fighter battle master with Precision Attack (misses into hits), Riposte (reaction attacks, extra SA), and Trip attack (create advantage, lock down enemies) is quite good on a rogue build. The fighting style and extra attack will boost your damage more than an equivalent number of rogue levels, particularly once you consider the additions from maneuvers. It also qualifies you for medium armor which would be great for your character it seems.

That's my two cents.

[Daddyflintstone]

Thank you both! That was what I was already thinking in both cases. Thank you for the quick responses!

[Daddyflintstone]

I was curious about the "Dex is pretty low" we did point buy so did I do something wrong with point slots? I tried to put as much as I could.

[Grimmnist]

My stats are as follows:
Str-8 Dex-15 Con-14 int-8 wis-12 char-14


Does this include your Racial bonuses, I'm assuming you are High Elf which should give you +2 dex and +1 int.

[bid]

I was curious about the "Dex is pretty low" we did point buy so did I do something wrong with point slots? I tried to put as much as I could.
As much as you could would be Dex17 for an elf.
You should have "bought" Dex14, then added the elf racial for Dex16.

The only elf that gives you a cantrip is High Elf, which has a minimum of Int9 with the racial.

[Daddyflintstone]

I don't believe I added my bonuses at all with given info. Last campaign was a one shot with watered down info because we were allll new to dnd.
me and dm agreed on use of mage hand and how to use in non combat. (I was not fond of arcane trickster given my playtype) and I saw cantrip with racial bonus and it's already saved my life with multiple booby-trapped doors and chests

[sithlordnergal]

So, I assume you cannot redistribute your points? Cause if you can, I highly suggest doing so. For future character building, and potential rebuilds, avoid Odd ability scores. They do very little to help you out, unless you're planning on boosting two Ability Scores at once using an ASI. If you can rebuild, I suggest this spread for a Swashbuckler:


Str: 8

Dex: 16

Con: 14

Int: 10

Wis: 12

Cha: 14


Now for the actual build:

First things first, are you guys doing more RPing/talking or are you all more combat focused?

If you're focused more on talking, I'd toss Expertise into Persuasion and remain a pure Rogue till level 12. That will get you Panache and Reliable talent. which makes for a scary good party face. If you guys are still going that long, start taking Sorcerer levels to get Shadow Blade, but you might not need it.

If you guys are combat focused, I'd remain a Rogue till about level 8, then jump into Draconic Sorcerer in order to get a base 13 AC, Shield, and Shadow Blade.

[Daddyflintstone]

So I guess my actual stats are str-8 dex-17 con-14 int-9 wis-12 char-14. With bonuses. Sorry for confusion

[Grimmnist]

I don't believe I added my bonuses at all with given info. Last campaign was a one shot with watered down info because we were allll new to dnd.
me and dm agreed on use of mage hand and how to use in non combat. (I was not fond of arcane trickster given my playtype) and I saw cantrip with racial bonus and it's already saved my life with multiple booby-trapped doors and chests

In that case I think your statline should be 8 17 14 9 12 14

Talk to your DM before making this change of course since it changes the game balance, might be that the whole group forgot to do this step when building character. The currently missing stats could be a potential problem as the book monsters aren't designed or balanced around those missing stats, essentially all your PC's would be ~5% worse at everything than the book assumes.

It's easy to miss rules when you first start playing but the important thing is really just to have fun and keep the game moving without getting bogged down in rules.

[bid]

I don't believe I added my bonuses at all with given info. Last campaign was a one shot with watered down info because we were allll new to dnd.
I suggest you fix your stats to Str8 Dex14+2 Con14 Int9+1 Wis13 Cha14

Heck, you could even half-elf for 8 15 14 10 14 14 and still get the cantrip by trading the 2 extra skills (SCAG p116)

[Grimmnist]

I suggest you fix your stats to Str8 Dex14+2 Con14 Int9+1 Wis13 Cha14

Heck, you could even half-elf for 8 15 14 10 14 14 and still get the cantrip by trading the 2 extra skills (SCAG p116)

I'm pretty sure the campaign is already underway. Making big changes like race or stat distribution are probably a bit of a big ask from the DM, it's not like the current statline (once the racial bonuses are included) is bad at all.

[Daddyflintstone]

So I guess my actual stats are str-8 dex-17 con-14 int-9 wis-12 char-14. With bonuses. Sorry for confusion

These are my actual current stats guys. Sorry for confusion thank you for all the help
This is including bonuses.
However still confused on odd number stat and why it's an issue?

[bid]

These are my actual current stats guys. Sorry for confusion thank you for all the help
This is including bonuses.
However still confused on odd number stat and why it's an issue?
Dex17 is +3, Int9 is -1 (overall +2)
Dex16 is +3, Int10 is +0 (overall +3)

Boosting your Dex didn't change anything. Reducing your Int incurred a penalty.

[sithlordnergal]

These are my actual current stats guys. Sorry for confusion thank you for all the help
This is including bonuses.
However still confused on odd number stat and why it's an issue?

Mostly because it costs more to have an odd stat. but doesn't give any benefits to having it. Outside of jumping, you never use the ability score itself, just the modifier. Meaning there is no mechanical difference between having a 14 in a stat or a 15 in a stat outside of 14 costing 7 points and 15 costing 9.

And those two extra points can do a lot more then you might think when you're using point buy. It only costs one point to raise a 9 to a 10, or an 11 to a 12. Meaning you can boost that 9 Int up to a 10 and still have a 16 Dex.

EDIT: Now, it could be more advantageous to have two skills with an odd stat, but only if you're planning on doing some crazy multiclass and need to meet the prerequisites for either your classes or armor. I have a few Paladins that have a 15 Strength, and never go higher simply because I plan on using some other stat as my attacking stat, be it wisdom, dex, or charisma.

[Grimmnist]

Mostly because it costs more to have an odd stat. but doesn't give any benefits to having it. Outside of jumping, you never use the ability score itself, just the modifier. Meaning there is no mechanical difference between having a 14 in a stat or a 15 in a stat outside of 14 costing 7 points and 15 costing 9.

And those two extra points can do a lot more then you might think when you're using point buy. It only costs one point to raise a 9 to a 10, or an 11 to a 12. Meaning you can boost that 9 Int up to a 10 and still have a 16 Dex.

Good explanation, mostly this is for future reference. It's a little late to do anything once you've already started playing the character, but missing a point or two really isn't the worst thing.

[djreynolds]

It sounds like your party could use martial characters. There's nothing wrong with pure Rogue, and one more level of Rogue will increase your survivability quite a bit due to uncanny dodge. I say stick with that for level 5.

From there, it depends on what you want and that weapon you have. Is it one handed or two? Is it usable with any fighting styles? Does it qualify for polearm mastery?

If you have a one handed build and can take the bonus action before you attack, then aiming to pick up Shield Master is very good. If your weapon is two handed and qualifies for polearm mastery, you'd be silly not to take that feat.

Out of the multiclass options you provided, you'd probably get the most out of fighter. Five levels of rogue followed by five in fighter battle master with Precision Attack (misses into hits), Riposte (reaction attacks, extra SA), and Trip attack (create advantage, lock down enemies) is quite good on a rogue build. The fighting style and extra attack will boost your damage more than an equivalent number of rogue levels, particularly once you consider the additions from maneuvers. It also qualifies you for medium armor which would be great for your character it seems.

That's my two cents.

This is good. Swashbuckler/battlemaster is great build. I personally recommend 14/6. Slippery mind comes at 15th level rogue and you want wisdom save proficiency earlier than later.

I would grab fighter now for medium armor and take to level 6. And then just go with rogue the rest of the way.

Good luck

So max out dex and grab resilient wisdom and forget rogue 15 for slippery mind, lucky is a great feat you grabbed

[Swimbley]

I’m a level 3 hexblade, half elf, after I get elven advantage and my second attack incantation I’m going swashbuckler. Right now I’m mostly fighting with a glave, gut I imagine at some point going with finesse weapons. Maybe some polearm for situational stuff. The cool thing about hex blade is you can summon whatever weapon you want.

[CTurbo]

I would go Rogue 5 before considering any multiclass. Uncanny Dodge is great and the extra d6 for sneak damage is a bonus.

After that, I have a few multiclass options


1. I love a single level of Draconic Sorcerer for Swashbucklers. You get a better than leather armor 13 + Dex AC, 4 cantrips, and 2 1st level spells. Obviously Booming Blade is the big gain here, but other things like Dancing Lights and Minor Illusion are great for helping you sneak. For spells you want Shield for sure, but I think Silent Image is great for sneaking as well. Or you could go with something like Disguise Self or Charm Person.

2. Battlemaster Fighter is great with Swashbucklers. Swashbuckler make great TWFers so that fighting style is a good fit. Riposte is amazing on Rogues because it's a fairly reliable way to use sneak attack again with your reaction. Going 5 levels of Fighter would be great or you could stop at 3.

3. One to three levels of Hexblade is a good fit too. You CAN use Cha to attack, but I's stick with Dex. Still everything else just fits so well. A Hexblade/Rogue has so many ways to gain advantage on attacks so taking Elven Accuracy here would be a no brainer. I'd probably stick to a single Rapier and use a shield. You could stop at Warlock 1 or take 3 and go Chain pact for an intelligent/invisible familiar that could really help you scout and get advantage on attacks.

[Grimmnist]

1. I love a single level of Draconic Sorcerer for Swashbucklers. You get a better than leather armor 13 + Dex AC, 4 cantrips, and 2 1st level spells. Obviously Booming Blade is the big gain here, but other things like Dancing Lights and Minor Illusion are great for helping you sneak. For spells you want Shield for sure, but I think Silent Image is great for sneaking as well. Or you could go with something like Disguise Self or Charm Person.


Can't believe I never considered that one before, this might be my next PC.

[Daddyflintstone]

Hey guys I think I've had more than enough replies. Thank you so much. The immediate feedback as well as personally attuned opinions will go a long way for me. Thank you so much for your individual time

[Trickery]

I love a single level of Draconic Sorcerer for Swashbucklers. You get a better than leather armor 13 + Dex AC, 4 cantrips, and 2 1st level spells. Obviously Booming Blade is the big gain here, but other things like Dancing Lights and Minor Illusion are great for helping you sneak. For spells you want Shield for sure, but I think Silent Image is great for sneaking as well. Or you could go with something like Disguise Self or Charm Person.

Now that's a cool build. While Hexblade is technically better, this character might be too cool to pass up. I'm imagining something like this:

Variant Human
Background: Spy
Rogue 1 - Sorcerer 1 (Draconic) - Rogue X
Ritual Caster (Wizard): Find Familiar and Unseen Servant plus whatever is found while leveling
Mage Hand, Booming Blade, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation (keep them clothes fashionable)
Disiguise Self + Shield
Expertise: Stealth, Deception

Actually, this works with basically any Rogue archetype. Mage hand will save you from traps when opening chests and doors, unseen servant can walk ahead of you through cooridors to set off traps, find familiar (owl) can fly and see in the dark and you can look through its eyes as needed, disguise self can let you pose as any medium humanoid for espionage, and ritual caster brings all kinds of utility to the group.

[Nagog]

I would go swords or valor bard. If you already have 2 Warlocks, a third won't add much to the party dynamic, and as a Bard, getting access to Faerie Fire will grant you sneak attack against anyone who fails the save, and the support options are great for synergizing with others, as it seems your two warlock buddies and you are prone to do. Also having more spell slots than your friends will add more long-term casting ability to the table, and with the medium armor granted by both Swords and Valor, you'll be viable as the tank of your co-op trio.

[Khrysaes]

I would go swords or valor bard. If you already have 2 Warlocks, a third won't add much to the party dynamic, and as a Bard, getting access to Faerie Fire will grant you sneak attack against anyone who fails the save, and the support options are great for synergizing with others, as it seems your two warlock buddies and you are prone to do. Also having more spell slots than your friends will add more long-term casting ability to the table, and with the medium armor granted by both Swords and Valor, you'll be viable as the tank of your co-op trio.

Im actually surprised it made it this far before bard was mentioned. I was gonna say sword and valor bard as well. Lore if you want specific spells at bard 6 from another class. Qnd whisper synergizes well with sneak attack too. Bards are great.