Homebrew World Concept Party Balance questions

[suplee215]

As the campaign I am dming is slowly drifting to an end I am looking at what the next campaign did. And I thought of a fun idea that will limit the classes the entire party (of about 9 players, I know, I have a lot). The party has not yet picked which kingdomt ehyw ill be a part of and I am more working on making each one balance but also having some strengths and weaknesses. Basically there will be 5 kingdom, each one representing a different type of magic or character. Each kingdom has 2 classes plus a few subclasses.

Arcana: Wizards, Sorcerers, Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, Fiend and Great old One Warlocks.
Divine: Cleric, Paladin, Zealot, Divine Soul, Celestial patron.
Nature: Druid, Ranger, Totem Warrior, Storm Herald.
Martial: Fighter, Monk, Hexblade, Bersker, Battle Rager
Skill Monkey: Bard, Rogue, Artificer, Fey patron warlock.

So what do you guys sees as the pluses and minuses to each of the different kingdom in terms of making a parties? I get that arcana is going to be relatively squishy but plenty of spells, resting could be another issue with them. Martials are going to love short rests and be tanky. I am debating putting either war cleric or valor and blade bards with them as to provide some healing possibilities. I also wonder if Divine will be too powerful but at the very least they lack much range and relies a little on long rests. Skill Monkey is supposed ot be jack of all trade type party and they can easily do that. I also have no idea where to put ancestral guardian barbarian. So any thoughts, suggestions etc?

[Bobthewizard]

I'd replace the skill monkey kingdom with an under dark kingdom and split as follows, with the type of government in parentheses. Sorry if I missed some subclasses.

Arcana (Magocracy): Artificer, Wizards, Eldritch Knight/Arcane Archer, Arcane Trickster, Great Old One Warlocks, Inquisitive/Mastermind Rogues, Lore Bards, Arcana/Knowledge/Trickery Clerics, Phoenix Sorcerer

Divine (Theocracy): Life/Light Clerics, Crown/Devotion/Redemption Paladins, Zealot/Ancentral Guardian, Divine Soul, Celestial patron, Horizon Walker, Divination Wizard?, Storm Sorcerer, Sun Soul Monk

Nature (Shamanism): Druids, Beastmaster Ranger, Totem Warrior/Storm Herald, Scout, Nature/Tempest Cleric, Ancients Paladin, Archfey Warlock, Glamour Bard, Wild Magic Sorcerer, Four Elements Monk

Martial (Feudal Kingdom): Fighters, Monks, Hexblade, Bersker/Battle Rager, Hunter/Monster Slayer Rangers, Abjuration/War/Bladesinger, Swashbuckler, Draconic Sorcerer, War/Forge/Order Cleric, Conquest/Vengeance Paladin, Valor and Swords Bards

Underdark (Mafia or lead by actual Fiend): Fiend Warlock, Necromancer, Death/Grave Cleric, Oathbreaker, Gloomstalker, Shadow Sorcerer, Assassin/Thief, Whispers Bard, Shadow/Long Death

This would let them have a more balanced party but still have a theme.

[suplee215]

I'd replace the skill monkey kingdom with an under dark kingdom and split as follows, with the type of government in parentheses. Sorry if I missed some subclasses.

Arcana (Magocracy): Artificer, Wizards, Eldritch Knight/Arcane Archer, Arcane Trickster, Great Old One Warlocks, Inquisitive/Mastermind Rogues, Lore Bards, Arcana/Knowledge/Trickery Clerics, Phoenix Sorcerer

Divine (Theocracy): Life/Light Clerics, Crown/Devotion/Redemption Paladins, Zealot/Ancentral Guardian, Divine Soul, Celestial patron, Horizon Walker, Divination Wizard?, Storm Sorcerer, Sun Soul Monk

Nature (Shamanism): Druids, Beastmaster Ranger, Totem Warrior/Storm Herald, Scout, Nature/Tempest Cleric, Ancients Paladin, Archfey Warlock, Glamour Bard, Wild Magic Sorcerer, Four Elements Monk

Martial (Feudal Kingdom): Fighters, Monks, Hexblade, Bersker/Battle Rager, Hunter/Monster Slayer Rangers, Abjuration/War/Bladesinger, Swashbuckler, Draconic Sorcerer, War/Forge/Order Cleric, Conquest/Vengeance Paladin, Valor and Swords Bards

Underdark (Mafia or lead by actual Fiend): Fiend Warlock, Necromancer, Death/Grave Cleric, Oathbreaker, Gloomstalker, Shadow Sorcerer, Assassin/Thief, Whispers Bard, Shadow/Long Death

This would let them have a more balanced party but still have a theme.

Looks interesting but not what I am looking for. I am also not looking for every party to be a balanced party which this provides. Also my idea for the skill monkey is to be basically ye old Las Vegas/Disney world with entertainers everywhere and the perfect vacation spot to just relax and party. But with a ton of rogues around check your pockets. One of the reasons I am thinking on this idea is I have a few players who usually don't explore outside their usual. So I am looking to purposefully unbalance parties although not too much where the party is useless.

[opaopajr]

With Arcana and the like getting specific Archetypes that cross-streams, you are essentially complicating your setting as they are getting the benefits of both. This is compounding your work. You are better off tightening things up, maybe even only using specific Archetypes. :smallcool:

It's a bit too metagame-y for me this way as most of the design does not harken much to setting, but more like setting harkens to some gamist "Rival Schools!" PHB curiosity. How would you justify this world's fiction to feel more organic? Or perhaps you are more interested in a Classes' Battle Royale? :smallredface:

Any party can succeed as long as they mitigate their weaknesses, play up to their strengths, and work together. So what exactly are you interested in offering to your players? And will you prevent cross-kingdom parties, as it will wholly defeat the purpose of this structure? :smallsmile:

[Bobthewizard]

Looks interesting but not what I am looking for. I am also not looking for every party to be a balanced party which this provides. Also my idea for the skill monkey is to be basically ye old Las Vegas/Disney world with entertainers everywhere and the perfect vacation spot to just relax and party. But with a ton of rogues around check your pockets. One of the reasons I am thinking on this idea is I have a few players who usually don't explore outside their usual. So I am looking to purposefully unbalance parties although not too much where the party is useless.

That's cool. I like your idea for a vacation land. As far as making parties with the restrictions in the first post, I think Divine, Nature and Skill Monkey are all playable. Clerics, Druids and Bards can all cover a lot of roles. Arcana and Martial kingdom will be hurt by not having any healing. This will mean you'll need to dial down the CR if you want 6 encounters per long rest. Martial has the more important concern of just being boring to play. All of the characters will basically be single target damage specialists. It's too much to ask a Hexblade to be a primary caster for controls, buffs and debuffs. Combat could get to be a bit of a drag and they will struggle with swarms.

Skill Monkey mechanically works but it seems kind of weird to start them in such a unique setting and then have them explore more traditional D&D settings. So I'd start the characters in Divine or Nature and keep Skill Monkey, Arcana and Martial as areas for them to explore.

Adding the appropriate Cleric, Bard, Wizard subclasses to Martial would make it playable. Adding Knowledge/Arcana clerics to Arcana would make it playable.

[suplee215]

That's cool. I like your idea for a vacation land. As far as making parties with the restrictions in the first post, I think Divine, Nature and Skill Monkey are all playable. Clerics, Druids and Bards can all cover a lot of roles. Arcana and Martial kingdom will be hurt by not having any healing. This will mean you'll need to dial down the CR if you want 6 encounters per long rest. Martial has the more important concern of just being boring to play. All of the characters will basically be single target damage specialists. It's too much to ask a Hexblade to be a primary caster for controls, buffs and debuffs. Combat could get to be a bit of a drag and they will struggle with swarms.

Skill Monkey mechanically works but it seems kind of weird to start them in such a unique setting and then have them explore more traditional D&D settings. So I'd start the characters in Divine or Nature and keep Skill Monkey, Arcana and Martial as areas for them to explore.

Adding the appropriate Cleric, Bard, Wizard subclasses to Martial would make it playable. Adding Knowledge/Arcana clerics to Arcana would make it playable.

Yea. I'll be adding Valor and Blade bards to Martial, unsure if I want clerics there. For Arcana I'll how well divine soul sorcerer works as the go to healer but the cleric options are possible.