Is it practical to run 5e Modern?

[RickAllison]

Not whether it’s possible, but whether it makes for a good experience rather than just using World of Darkness or Shadowrun. There are the weapons in the DMG and the Modern Magic UA, but is it a fool’s errand? My friends really like 5e, but I wonder if it just won’t work.

[Reevh]

I’ve played in a 5e sic-fi campaign before and thought it was great. Just have your players reskin their abilities, make sure magic is still real, but some things can be accomplished through tech instead. Maybe add some home brew spells, I mean programming scripts, to add some fun modernity.

I played a warforged wizard with a built in disguise kit. I used it to present as if I were actually an elf because I was really an experimental AI war machine, an infiltrator powered by an arcanomechanical core, that would continue to grow in power over time. He escaped his lab by killing one of the scientists and taking on her form, but has since taken a masculine form that would be less recognizable. Unfortunately, the campaign dissolved before the other players found out I wasn’t really an elf.

Another player was a yuan ti true blood, reimagined as a doctor who had experimented on her own tissues, causing those mutations.

Have fun with it!

[Graelcase]

It seems to be going well for Dimension 20's (the College Humor D&D show) current season. The DM clearly gave some thought to how fantastical elements would change New York and some of the equipment (like heavy armor) has been modified. Haven't played or DM'd a modern campaign myself.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Not whether it’s possible, but whether it makes for a good experience rather than just using World of Darkness or Shadowrun. There are the weapons in the DMG and the Modern Magic UA, but is it a fool’s errand? My friends really like 5e, but I wonder if it just won’t work.

Honestly, I would just play a system with modern stuff in mind while making it.

I vote for "Corporation"

[Luccan]

Familiarity and fondness for a system can often make it worth fudging the game a bit to fit a setting. I don't think it would be impractical even without the DMG guns or UA available, though they certainly help.

Edit: Really, unless you need something super specific about modern life to be detailed and given in-depth, unique rules, most "generic" (D&D isn't quite generic, but it's close enough) systems work fine.

[RickAllison]

Does the Eberron book cover anything like the trains or such that would be in a setting like that? Trains, etc. It might be a good resource for me.

[Brookshw]

Not whether it’s possible, but whether it makes for a good experience rather than just using World of Darkness or Shadowrun. There are the weapons in the DMG and the Modern Magic UA, but is it a fool’s errand? My friends really like 5e, but I wonder if it just won’t work.

WoD mechanics were fine when last I played the system (20+ years ago), if nothing substantial has changed it should be a fine alternative. It's a toss up for which is better. However I've personally come to hate Shadowrun's system no matter the edition. Hacking constantly splits the party and people twiddle their thumbs waiting for it to be over. The same can sometimes be true for spirit stuff. I definitely would take Modern over it to keep people engaged.

[Talsin]

Not whether it’s possible, but whether it makes for a good experience rather than just using World of Darkness or Shadowrun. There are the weapons in the DMG and the Modern Magic UA, but is it a fool’s errand? My friends really like 5e, but I wonder if it just won’t work.

While I love Shadowrun to pieces, I would not suggest using it. At all. Its latest edition is jumbled, poorly edited, and confusing as all get-out. It requires some really dedicated readers to understand and further dedication to make it work smoothly after the first 10-20 sessions of arguing about rule interactions. Even then, it's still a hot mess.

I can't speak for World of Darkness though.

[Fable Wright]

Does the Eberron book cover anything like the trains or such that would be in a setting like that? Trains, etc. It might be a good resource for me.

Eberron sticks with roughly 1920s-ish technology, with some exceptions like Cleansing Stones that are a clear upgrade over modern washing machines. Prestidigitation is really good at removing dirt, whether from clothes or people. That said, most of the travel time & cost stuff for trains is in 3.5e/4e material.

It doesn't cover the things you'd need in the modern day, though, like cell phones, search engines, web browsers, etc.

It does recommend treating firearms as cantrips—usually with the Spell Sniper or Magic Initiate feat granting the cantrip, and the wand being a necessary component to cast. Specialty firearms require attunement and add +1 damage to one element of cantrip damage.

Honestly, it might be good to run 5e Modern with everyone having a free Magic Initiate feat, for Message and one firearm-equivalent cantrip, with their first level spell replicating one piece of modern tech they make heavy use of. Whether that's a drone (Find Familiar), element-resistant clothing (Absorb Element), a bulletproof vest (Shield), instant crowdsourcing (Unseen Servant), hologram projector (Silent Image), or some pills to help bounce off the walls (Expeditious Retreat), you could have a lot of fun with that.

If you message the wi-fi router (aka a Tiny Servant sitting on a sending stone), it'll Help you on any knowledge checks you might want to try!

[Throne12]

I did a sci-fi game and it just a lot of reskining. Longbow is a sniper rifle, heavy crossbow is a heavy machine gun, light Xbow is a carbine, shortbow a assault rifle, hand Xbow a pistol, I had my players reskin there spells how ever they want. One player reskin them as using tech and another use a divice to channel mana into so he can use spells.

If your worried about info, travel, and other stuff like that don't worry. It's no different then having teleport, airships, legend lore, going to a library, ect. It all the same it just looks different.

[RickAllison]

WoD mechanics were fine when last I played the system (20+ years ago), if nothing substantial has changed it should be a fine alternative. It's a toss up for which is better. However I've personally come to hate Shadowrun's system no matter the edition. Hacking constantly splits the party and people twiddle their thumbs waiting for it to be over. The same can sometimes be true for spirit stuff. I definitely would take Modern over it to keep people engaged.

I should probably clarify, I’d be using New World/Chronicles of Darkness. Way more flexible. And I don’t want much of any hacking, so Shadowrun goes down the drain.


Eberron sticks with roughly 1920s-ish technology, with some exceptions like Cleansing Stones that are a clear upgrade over modern washing machines. Prestidigitation is really good at removing dirt, whether from clothes or people. That said, most of the travel time & cost stuff for trains is in 3.5e/4e material.

It doesn't cover the things you'd need in the modern day, though, like cell phones, search engines, web browsers, etc.

It does recommend treating firearms as cantrips—usually with the Spell Sniper or Magic Initiate feat granting the cantrip, and the wand being a necessary component to cast. Specialty firearms require attunement and add +1 damage to one element of cantrip damage.

Honestly, it might be good to run 5e Modern with everyone having a free Magic Initiate feat, for Message and one firearm-equivalent cantrip, with their first level spell replicating one piece of modern tech they make heavy use of. Whether that's a drone (Find Familiar), element-resistant clothing (Absorb Element), a bulletproof vest (Shield), instant crowdsourcing (Unseen Servant), hologram projector (Silent Image), or some pills to help bounce off the walls (Expeditious Retreat), you could have a lot of fun with that.

If you message the wi-fi router (aka a Tiny Servant sitting on a sending stone), it'll Help you on any knowledge checks you might want to try!

The game would be less overtly modern, so that will probably work. If you know Kingdom Hearts, it’s like that level of technology. It can be advanced in parts, but it’s far from universal. It’s entirely possible that someone has never seen a cell phone, and being computer illiterate is not rare. Some noir elements, but generally it’s a setting that has had rapid technological growth recently.

I do like the idea of using Magic Initiate or like Dragonmarks and effectively-wands more liberally.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Not whether it’s possible, but whether it makes for a good experience rather than just using World of Darkness or Shadowrun. There are the weapons in the DMG and the Modern Magic UA, but is it a fool’s errand? My friends really like 5e, but I wonder if it just won’t work.

I ran a session where the party teleported to the Nevada desert in 1950's earth chasing a Lich who stumbled onto our atomic test location and was out to steal a bomb.

Isolation and the lack of cell phones allowed me to treat it as a controlled environment and the players going with things, not wanting to explore Las Vegas and what not, made it work.

[FilthyLucre]

Not whether it’s possible, but whether it makes for a good experience rather than just using World of Darkness or Shadowrun. There are the weapons in the DMG and the Modern Magic UA, but is it a fool’s errand? My friends really like 5e, but I wonder if it just won’t work.

I LOVED d20 Modern - and I've been trying to make 5e work in a "no magic" setting... and it always comes out clunky. Rogue, fighter, barbarian, and almost all of empty hand monk work perfectly but that doesn't leave you with a very diverse cast of characters. I'm hoping WotC will revisit this niche but I'm not holding my breathe.

[RickAllison]

I LOVED d20 Modern - and I've been trying to make 5e work in a "no magic" setting... and it always comes out clunky. Rogue, fighter, barbarian, and almost all of empty hand monk work perfectly but that doesn't leave you with a very diverse cast of characters. I'm hoping WotC will revisit this niche but I'm not holding my breathe.

I think what I'm going to work with is kind of an Eberron-modern hybrid. Culturally leaning towards modern day and having some features, but also restricting a lot of magic into being accessible, but not perfect. Maybe they can lease a cell phone that patches into the communications network at a premium cost, and a horseless carriage could be the party's if they appease the right person. A lot of consumer magic items could rely on aether a la Kaladesh, so the availability of high-magic is dependent on the location. In general though, it does seem like perhaps a better option than trying to go full-modern.

[Misterwhisper]

In my opinion NWOD is the best system their is.
Just add in templates or supernatural merits to flavor.
Or go all out on the supernatural side and pick the theme you want.


Shadowrun 4th ed is a close second.

[Luccan]

I LOVED d20 Modern - and I've been trying to make 5e work in a "no magic" setting... and it always comes out clunky. Rogue, fighter, barbarian, and almost all of empty hand monk work perfectly but that doesn't leave you with a very diverse cast of characters. I'm hoping WotC will revisit this niche but I'm not holding my breathe.

I've been doing something similar to you. Look at Kensai and Drunken Master for more Monk options. My problem is Barbarian, which only has Berserker. If you drop the ritual spells I guess Totem could work, mostly. The rest don't though: either too explicitly magical or in Zealot's case, partially tied to a set of spells (though I think can work otherwise?)

The thing is, 8 out of the 12 classes cast spells. If you're going to ignore them, you have to accept that it limits characters somewhat. OTOH, I think even single class game could be fun, so I'd only worry about it if your players aren't having fun.

Oh, and I think there was a UA on a spell-less Ranger? Here it is (https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/modifying-classes), not UA but an example from Wizards on changing classes

[RickAllison]

In my opinion NWOD is the best system their is.
Just add in templates or supernatural merits to flavor.
Or go all out on the supernatural side and pick the theme you want.


Shadowrun 4th ed is a close second.

The two games that really got me into TTRPGs were Edge of the Empire (where I played a slicer droid who would hop bodies, and eventually ended up as a Zoid in charge of a battle droid factory) and Hunter: the Vigil (where I played a wolf-blooded archaeologist who loved guns and animals more than he did his fellow hunters).

[Bjarkmundur]

I think it works with maybe one-weekend's worth of renaming stuff and writing up some google documents. There's no need to get nit-picky, just focus on the smallest changes that have the biggest results.

If you enjoyed 4e, then use d20 modern. If you really love 5e, here's were I'd start:

1. Using the scaling cantrips (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v_QztY7nn68JoObJ5F5atoQKlQfCUI1Toi_WtnrsoYY) will help ground your setting, making sure 1st-level magic and magic initiates have less impact on the world as a whole.
2. Renaming weapon and equipment without changing stats goes a long way.
3. Adding some urban-friendly spellcasters like the psion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?593739-Revised-Mystic&p=24061441#post24061441) also helps.
4. The best change you can make is probably redoing the skill list. 5e's skill list is very specific for its design goals and overall theme. I have some guidelines on how to alter skill lists here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?588160-Create-your-own-skills!&p=23913557#post23913557), and you can also see how I altered my skill list for my own campaign in my Houserule Document (https://tinyurl.com/y3v2bcrr). Having skills like Tech/Programming and Driving will go a long way to give the feel of a modern setting.
5. Using theater-of-the-mind instead of a battle-mat makes it a lot easier for you to handwave and narrate a lot of the details in combat. This reduces the chances of bumping into things that don't quite make sense in a modern setting. Riding elevators, dealing with snipers and car chases all work a thousand times better when narrated than played with strict grid-style combat rules.
6. START SMALL. Don't homebrew your ass off, it'll only lead to confusion and imbalances. This is a big point when it comes to races. Having very fantastic races in a modern setting can break the immersion and suspension of disbeleif. Restrict the players to Human. I don't like the 5e humans, and I have a nice alternative in my Houserule Document (https://tinyurl.com/y3v2bcrr). This wouldn't normally work, but since all your players have said yes to a modern setting it should be fine. This does mean you might need to create some additional feats or equipment to make up for all the interesting features you just removed. Darkvision becomes nightvision goggles etc.
7. START SMALL. You don't have to create every single piece of item that exists in the modern world. Just make them up as the players request them.
8. Decide what you want to do about smart phones. Some advantures just don't work when each player has the collective knowledge of the entire planet at their fingertips. Sometimes it works out fine, sometimes you have to create some dystopian reason for why smart phones don't work in your setting like they do the real world. Maybe there's a strict surveillance law that means their phones are monitored constantly.

[Fable Wright]

1. Using the scaling cantrips (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v_QztY7nn68JoObJ5F5atoQKlQfCUI1Toi_WtnrsoYY) will help ground your setting, making sure 1st-level magic and magic initiates have less impact on the world as a whole.

... and how does making Druidcraft take two actions, or decreasing the durations of at-will out of combat cantrips (only increasing the need to spam them), shrinking the size of Dancing Lights, or decreasing the number of concurrently active tricks for the flavor-only uses of the elemental cantrips or prestithaumaticraft ground the setting? It's the exact same capabilities with more annoying hoops to jump through.



4. The best change you can make is probably redoing the skill list. 5e's skill list is very specific for its design goals and overall theme. I have some guidelines on how to alter skill lists here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?588160-Create-your-own-skills!&p=23913557#post23913557), and you can also see how I altered my skill list for my own campaign in my Houserule Document (https://tinyurl.com/y3v2bcrr). Having skills like Tech/Programming and Driving will go a long way to give the feel of a modern setting.

Hard disagree. The skill system is extremely finicky and can drastically change the value of stats. I'd handle tech/programming, car diving, aircraft flying, and all those little things as tool proficiency. Forcing your players to spend precious skill slots on basic competencies is just bad design. In fact, give them an extra tool proficiency or two just to flesh out competencies.



5. Using theater-of-the-mind instead of a battle-mat makes it a lot easier for you to handwave and narrate a lot of the details in combat. This reduces the chances of bumping into things that don't quite make sense in a modern setting. Riding elevators, dealing with snipers and car chases all work a thousand times better when narrated than played with strict grid-style combat rules.

This is terrible advice for one reason: cover.

In a modern setting, cover is both everywhere, and crucial with the small size and ease of access to ranged weapon attacks. Seriously, there's a reason every modern era game is a cover based shooter, and why closing to melee is both difficult and crucial. You either need houserules to let the players introduce their own cover, or sketch out scenes.

You don't need to bust out a grid for ultra confined areas like elevators and cars, though, I agree.



6. START SMALL. Don't homebrew your ass off, it'll only lead to confusion and imbalances.

Agreed. No reason to fiddle around with core mechanics like how skills work or how cantrips work if you just want to refluff the setting. Sticking with giving the players a few extra things (Magic Initiate, extra tool proficiencies and new tools to choose) and advice on theming goes a long way to keeping familiarity with the rules while adding a fun twist, never taking AWAY from what players expect. Just adding to it.



8. Decide what you want to do about smart phones. Some advantures just don't work when each player has the collective knowledge of the entire planet at their fingertips. Sometimes it works out fine, sometimes you have to create some dystopian reason for why smart phones don't work in your setting like they do the real world. Maybe there's a strict surveillance law that means their phones are monitored constantly.

Is there any reason why smartphones and search engine usage don't just get rolled up into Knowledge skills? The Sage background is practically designed to work in a modern setting, where you can find obscure scientific papers if you fail your initial googling... out of combat.

[Reevh]

Another thing that can be done about the ubiquity of information if you're in a galactic campaign setting, is you can say that there is no such thing as subspace communications. All new information traveling between worlds only arrives with interplanetary FTL vessels, which only make the trip once a week or whatever, due to the high costs of running FTL capable transport. This way you can have things happening "off screen" on other worlds without the players instantly knowing about it.

[Bjarkmundur]

Agreed. No reason to fiddle around with core mechanics like how skills work or how cantrips work if you just want to refluff the setting. Sticking with giving the players a few extra things (Magic Initiate, extra tool proficiencies and new tools to choose) and advice on theming goes a long way to keeping familiarity with the rules while adding a fun twist, never taking AWAY from what players expect. Just adding to it.
This, just exactly this.


... and how does making Druidcraft take two actions, or decreasing the durations of at-will out of combat cantrips (only increasing the need to spam them), shrinking the size of Dancing Lights, or decreasing the number of concurrently active tricks for the flavor-only uses of the elemental cantrips or prestithaumaticraft ground the setting? It's the exact same capabilities with more annoying hoops to jump through.

Fair enough.


Hard disagree. The skill system is extremely finicky and can drastically change the value of stats. I'd handle tech/programming, car diving, aircraft flying, and all those little things as tool proficiency. Forcing your players to spend precious skill slots on basic competencies is just bad design. In fact, give them an extra tool proficiency or two just to flesh out competencies.

Tools should work. But calling those basic competencies is an insult to the athletics and acrobatics skill.
Just like every character knows how to drive in a modern setting, every character also know show to swim/climb/jump in 5e. Just because something is easy doesn't mean you can't get REALLY good at it. Tools is a much cleaner solution, though, I must be honest.

By taking away the fantasy-specific skills from 5e's skill list you can add 3 new skills and 3 new knowledge skills without changing the overall number of skills available. So both methods are perfectly reasonable.


This is terrible advice for one reason: cover.
In a modern setting, cover is both everywhere, and crucial with the small size and ease of access to ranged weapon attacks. Seriously, there's a reason every modern era game is a cover based shooter, and why closing to melee is both difficult and crucial. You either need houserules to let the players introduce their own cover, or sketch out scenes.

You don't need to bust out a grid for ultra confined areas like elevators and cars, though, I agree.

We're talking efficient changes. Adapting 5e to have specific mechanics for the lethality of guns is a can of worms for most people. Keep it Simple.


Is there any reason why smartphones and search engine usage don't just get rolled up into Knowledge skills? The Sage background is practically designed to work in a modern setting, where you can find obscure scientific papers if you fail your initial googling... out of combat.

Hm, you're right, I'm not really one to comment on knowledge skills. I generally don't like them, any way shape or form.


Not whether it’s possible, but whether it makes for a good experience rather than just using World of Darkness or Shadowrun. There are the weapons in the DMG and the Modern Magic UA, but is it a fool’s errand? My friends really like 5e, but I wonder if it just won’t work.

I'd recommend a new system. I was skeptical at first when branching out, but each system has different emphasis on different things and can lead to new and fun experiences. You've probably experienced this in your own games with different systems.


The game would be less overtly modern, so that will probably work. If you know Kingdom Hearts, it’s like that level of technology. It can be advanced in parts, but it’s far from universal. It’s entirely possible that someone has never seen a cell phone, and being computer illiterate is not rare. Some noir elements, but generally it’s a setting that has had rapid technological growth recently.

That makes everything a lot easier, since your not doing this-world present-day!


I think what I'm going to work with is kind of an Eberron-modern hybrid. Culturally leaning towards modern day and having some features, but also restricting a lot of magic into being accessible, but not perfect. Maybe they can lease a cell phone that patches into the communications network at a premium cost, and a horseless carriage could be the party's if they appease the right person. A lot of consumer magic items could rely on aether a la Kaladesh, so the availability of high-magic is dependent on the location. In general though, it does seem like perhaps a better option than trying to go full-modern.

Eberron sounds like a lot of fun!

[Anymage]

"Like Eberron, but the magitech mimics modern tech instead of post-WWI tech" shouldn't be too hard. You'll need to justify a few things, but it shouldn't take too much through. (Like a city-wide magical effect that lets minor magic items of Message contact others on a citywide basis; have infrastructure/networks in place so that the modern tech analogues don't get in the way of adventuring too much.) Magic and adventurers going off and doing adventurer things should still remain, since that's always been the core of what D&D is about and the d20 rule engine kinda sucks for a modern, nonmagical, real-world game. You can maybe make it work for urban fantasy if you really want to, but you'll still be hoping that you'll be working with primary adventurers and not hackers and engineers and suchlike.



Restrict the players to Human...

I'm not a fan of darkvision at my tables. If the group works as a party, I like being able to give everybody the same description without having to assume that different people have different vision radii. Having said that, aside from ability to see in the dark, I allow players to pick whatever set of racial features they can justify, so long as you have relatively normal proportions and round ears. Your human has keen senses, meditates at night to recharge themselves, and that habit makes them resistant to sleep and charm effects? Cool. Your other human is a talented smith with a hearty constitution, but who is so used to the weight of armor that they keep an armored gait even in normal clothes? Also cool. Some bits like the high elf's cantrip skill require at least some level of magic in the world (again, D&D doesn't really work if you remove all the magic from it), but you give your players options even while you keep the appearance of a human heavy world.

[Misterwhisper]

The two games that really got me into TTRPGs were Edge of the Empire (where I played a slicer droid who would hop bodies, and eventually ended up as a Zoid in charge of a battle droid factory) and Hunter: the Vigil (where I played a wolf-blooded archaeologist who loved guns and animals more than he did his fellow hunters).

I played OWOD MET vampire and werefolf for years before I started D&D.

[Fable Wright]

Tools should work. But calling those basic competencies is an insult to the athletics and acrobatics skill.
Just like every character knows how to drive in a modern setting, every character also know show to swim/climb/jump in 5e. Just because something is easy doesn't mean you can't get REALLY good at it. Tools is a much cleaner solution, though, I must be honest.

This, I will agree with. Anyone can attempt Athletics and Acrobatics untrained, but there's a bit of a paradigm shift. Just like how in 5e, Thieves Tool proficiency is almost a tax on the party, given that it's required to act on a dungeon, someone is going to need Car proficiency since there WILL be deadly high stakes car chases at some point. There WILL be times when cyber sleuthing is required. Someone with those skills is essentially required to exist in the party in order to be an adventuring party in the modern setting. And that takes away from character choices like carpenter tools or gaming sets that were there for flavor.



By taking away the fantasy-specific skills from 5e's skill list you can add 3 new skills and 3 new knowledge skills without changing the overall number of skills available. So both methods are perfectly reasonable.


In 5e Modern, though, you do run into those fantastical elements, though some skills should be expanded. Survival, for example, probably gets rolled up with Streetwise, knowing how to survive on the streets, recognize gang signs, and more.



We're talking efficient changes. Adapting 5e to have specific mechanics for the lethality of guns is a can of worms for most people. Keep it Simple.


I run an Eberron game, and dropped in a bunch of Warforged with wands that they were using as "guns". Way less damage than a battleaxe or crossbow (1d10+1 damage at the most from Eldritch Blast and a common magic item).

Cover immediately became important, because three people with weak shots at 90' away from you, retreating 30' per turn to keep distance, was not insignificant damage, even if they were less deadly than a longbow, much less a gun. NO ONE stayed out in the open if they could help it.

It's not the lethality of ranged weapons that make cover important. It's the number.