What happened to Iron Chef?

[Vrock Bait]

I couldn’t find any Iron Chef competitions past August. And that was E6, the latest normal one ended in April. Both were strangely imcomplete, and it looked like people just stopped using the threads for some reason. It was kind of creepy. I was wondering what happened to it, and why I couldn’t find any more. Anybody know?

[ZamielVanWeber]

Interest in 3.5 and this board are both slowly fading. Iron Chef demands not only competitors but judges as well so as attention fades people just... give up.

[Lorddenorstrus]

Overall interest seems to be dying for 3.5. As someone who can't stand playing 5E due to how brain dead it is. I can't understand it personally, but it's just the reality at this point. Also a lot of competitions would just be duplicates. There's been a ton over the last few years. There's only so many you can make that are actually interesting.

[daremetoidareyo]

summer + working hard all the time to stay in place will do that to a board. Also, the chair of iron chef has been indisposed for a bit.

[pabelfly]

Even if there is a competition, there also needs to be people who are specifically interested in the ingredients being used and have the time to do a build and writeup for it. Neither of which are guaranteed, even if someone wants to compete.

[The Viscount]

For Iron Chef specifically, we are waiting for someone to judge the most recent round. Darrin is setting aside some time, but we would certainly still appreciate any judges.

[Zaq]

I just started school again, hence why I can’t judge. Also my summer has been CRAAAAZY between moving and being abroad for almost a month and dealing with family drama and stuff. I can’t be the only one with a lot going on.

That said, the E6 competition is alive and kicking, with 4-5 days left in the cooking period! Come join us!

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Plus the other competitions. All the ones I know of are admittedly in the judging phase (save the E6 Appetizer edition Zaq already mentioned; I'm currently cooking for that one).

Junkyard Wars -- judging for the no prestige class round, but also debating the merits of various potential future ingredients.

Villainous Competition -- languishing in the judging phase for the 'any previous competition' round. I do not envy that judge (or begrudge them the time they're taking); the entries are both complicated and numerous.

Iron Chef Classic -- judging phase for Life Eater.

Iron Chef E6 -- cooking for Scout.

Gamewarpers -- hasn't done the reveal yet, possibly because there aren't enough entrants. If that's the reason I'm partly responsible, because after talking a big game I found myself increasingly dissatisfied with both the fluff and the crunch of my potential entry.

Military Games -- this is a new one, and is also in the judging phase for its first round. As an entrant, it was pretty interesting, because you have to think about things in a completely different way.


Am I missing any?

[jdizzlean]

most of them languish in the judging phase for as long, or longer than the build phase. if there isn't a judge who has agreed to step up (and later doesn't have RL interfere to much) at the beginning of the round, it can take a month or more for someone to volunteer, and then however long for them to get thru everything. The current VC round for example is a nightmare to judge, and i hope the disputes are minimal or non-existent once judging is finally posted.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Zinc Saucier used to run but ran out of entrants. The last few rounds had only two entrants total.

[Thurbane]

most of them languish in the judging phase for as long, or longer than the build phase.

This. Most recent/current comps can be found below...

Iron Chef: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?589964-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCIX

E6: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?595369-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-E6-Appetizer-Edition-(Round-XIX)

Villainous Competition: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?589107-Villainous-Competition-XXXIII-The-Do-Over

Junkyard Wars: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?593374-Junkyard-Wars-XXVI-RSL-ACF-PrCs

...judges are always in short supply. I step up where I can, but lately real life is demanding most of my time, so I'm not getting entries in, and also not getting time to judge.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

As far as I know, Thurbane got all but two of the currently running ones with his links, so to complete the set:

Game-Warper's: Dippin' Dots (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?589257-Game-Warper-s-Optimization-Challenge-6-Dippin-Dots)

Military Games: The Stand of the 300 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?593925-Military-Games-Act-1-the-Stand-of-300!)

[Elves]

Overall interest seems to be dying for 3.5. As someone who can't stand playing 5E due to how brain dead it is. I can't understand it personally, but it's just the reality at this point. Also a lot of competitions would just be duplicates. There's been a ton over the last few years. There's only so many you can make that are actually interesting.

I don't think 3.5 is actually dying. It has a surprising amount of presence, actually, almost everyone who isn't part of the "beer crowd" knows about it and I see 3.5 books in a lot of unexpected places IRL (maybe just because they look so much nicer than the 5e ones). And as you mention, 5e is boring and has no content. Despite its flaws, 3.5 is still the best edition of D&D we have. I think it will continue to have a classic status longevity that something like 4e, which was underrated but still much more a product of its time, lacks.

No, there won't be the same flurry of optimization that fueled 10 billion Iron Chefs, but as 5e proves, popularity and amount of TO territory left to chart don't necessarily correlate.

[StevenC21]

3.5e will live as long as I do. I fully expect to die clutching a PHB in one hand and a stack of Dragon Magazines in the other.

[Elves]

Well maybe that's an unhealthy amount of bonding it to your identity...besides, hopefully by then you'll be too enthralled by the possibilities of full matrix VR or whatever to care.

[StevenC21]

If I can't realistically emulate my D&D level 20 Wizard shenanigans in VR, what's the point of it.

[MisterKaws]

As others said, you can blame it on the judges. I was lucky to be close to the end of my winter break when Junkyard Wars dropped last time, so I joined as a judge and did it in two days, but usually there aren't so many people with this much free time to judge.

Also the other competitions are a thousand times harder to judge, because of the number of entries and complexity of builds.

Hell, someone posted an entry on VC which has four different cr20 creatures...

[Vrock Bait]

I don’t think 3.5e is dying at all. I learned about it a just 3 years ago, and I found it far more to my taste than Fifth Edition. Later, I realized Optimization was a thing, so... here we are.

[Darrin]

For Iron Chef specifically, we are waiting for someone to judge the most recent round. Darrin is setting aside some time, but we would certainly still appreciate any judges.

*cough* Yeah... been trying to get caught up at work, and then my iPad died (or it's currently flickering at -9 HP... not sure I can save it, since it's a non-living construct). I'm hoping to make some progress on Life Eater over the next week or so. I'll try and post an update when I have made some progress.

The Iron Chefs have slowed down, mostly due to judges not volunteering, judges not having the time, or just migrating on to other games/forums.

I have suggested before that we move to a "Ranked Choice" voting system, which would provide at least a ranking system of sorts. However, it's not exactly the wonderful solution I initially thought it would be. The Iron Chef community really, really likes detailed judging notes, and the judges... most of them still really enjoy writing them, when they can find the time. And I think we did try ranked choice voting for a round, or on one of the spinoff contests, and it... wasn't quite as satisfying as I thought it would be.

[Malphegor]

I'd probably also note that it's kinda intimidating. People have really good ideas for characters that actually sound functionally sound and fits the competition theme, while I'm over here trying to glue, I don't know, an Acolyte of the Skin to a bard or something. (devil went down to georgia, lookin' for a soul to steal, but he got trapped in a bard's skin and begged to make a deal)

I might participate one day, my dumb ideas for characters might give people a good laugh.

[unseenmage]

I'd probably also note that it's kinda intimidating. People have really good ideas for characters that actually sound functionally sound and fits the competition theme, while I'm over here trying to glue, I don't know, an Acolyte of the Skin to a bard or something. (devil went down to georgia, lookin' for a soul to steal, but he got trapped in a bard's skin and begged to make a deal)

I might participate one day, my dumb ideas for characters might give people a good laugh.

This. Mostly.

It's also a metric ton of work, like any 3.x endeavor that finding the time for can be difficult.
Being not so confident of one's abilities ebbs and flows with mood and competing requires a degree of confidence that one may or may not be able to maintain throughout a lengthy build process.

[Psyren]

If it were 3.PF I'd be more interested as that is what I play ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[unseenmage]

If it were 3.PF I'd be more interested as that is what I play ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sounds like you need to fire up a 3.PF competition. :)

[Gallowglass]

I put together a thread a month or so ago asking for level of interest in doing a Pathfinder version of the contests.

I think I got two positive responses.

So, yeah, I kind of gave up on it.

I love reading the contests, but I will never participate because my system mastery of 3.5 is very amateur, because I've played mostly in pathfinder.

I keep wanting to put together a new contest which is more DM centric. A contest like "given this opening paragraph and mission statement design a game night adventure. Make at least three encounters with statted adversaries and/or traps/puzzles/skill challenges. Use these two ingredients, do not use this ingredient. Creativity counts." But I just don't have confidence in myself to run a contest like the current people do.

[DeTess]

I keep wanting to put together a new contest which is more DM centric. A contest like "given this opening paragraph and mission statement design a game night adventure. Make at least three encounters with statted adversaries and/or traps/puzzles/skill challenges. Use these two ingredients, do not use this ingredient. Creativity counts." But I just don't have confidence in myself to run a contest like the current people do.

I think something like this was tried a while ago? I didn't follow it closely enough to see how it went though.

[AvatarVecna]

most of them languish in the judging phase for as long, or longer than the build phase. if there isn't a judge who has agreed to step up (and later doesn't have RL interfere to much) at the beginning of the round, it can take a month or more for someone to volunteer, and then however long for them to get thru everything. The current VC round for example is a nightmare to judge, and i hope the disputes are minimal or non-existent once judging is finally posted.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I only intend to dispute factually incorrect portions of my own judgement and let anything opinion-based go unmentioned; I submitted a pile of garbage as a joke and I'm fully aware of that, so I went into this accepting that whatever opinion the judge came out of this with would be perfectly legitimate. :smalltongue:


Sounds like you need to fire up a 3.PF competition. :)

That sounds like it'd be fun. Or even just a pure Pathfinder competition. Would be especially interesting if some of the more commonly-accepted 3pp material was allowed as well.

[AnimeTheCat]

I don't think 3.5 is actually dying. It has a surprising amount of presence, actually, almost everyone who isn't part of the "beer crowd" knows about it and I see 3.5 books in a lot of unexpected places IRL (maybe just because they look so much nicer than the 5e ones). And as you mention, 5e is boring and has no content. Despite its flaws, 3.5 is still the best edition of D&D we have. I think it will continue to have a classic status longevity that something like 4e, which was underrated but still much more a product of its time, lacks.

No, there won't be the same flurry of optimization that fueled 10 billion Iron Chefs, but as 5e proves, popularity and amount of TO territory left to chart don't necessarily correlate.

"Beer Crowd"? What's that?

[Psyren]

Sounds like you need to fire up a 3.PF competition. :)

Definitely no time to run it; I still have P1 handbooks in the oven.

[unseenmage]

Definitely no time to run it; I still have P1 handbooks in the oven.

Dont we all?

[jdizzlean]

I put together a thread a month or so ago asking for level of interest in doing a Pathfinder version of the contests.

I think I got two positive responses.

So, yeah, I kind of gave up on it.

I love reading the contests, but I will never participate because my system mastery of 3.5 is very amateur, because I've played mostly in pathfinder.

I keep wanting to put together a new contest which is more DM centric. A contest like "given this opening paragraph and mission statement design a game night adventure. Make at least three encounters with statted adversaries and/or traps/puzzles/skill challenges. Use these two ingredients, do not use this ingredient. Creativity counts." But I just don't have confidence in myself to run a contest like the current people do.

there was indeed one attempted, it gave i think a month to build based loosely around some criteria on encounters/setting. i had hoped to read it, but i haven't dm'd myself in 20 years, i leave that to far more qualified members of my gaming group to do :) i don't think i ever saw a reveal for it, let alone a 2nd round, so who knows what happened to it

[Gallowglass]

there was indeed one attempted, it gave i think a month to build based loosely around some criteria on encounters/setting. i had hoped to read it, but i haven't dm'd myself in 20 years, i leave that to far more qualified members of my gaming group to do :) i don't think i ever saw a reveal for it, let alone a 2nd round, so who knows what happened to it

Fascinating. If anyone with better search-fu than me could find that abandoned thread, I'd love to read it. See what happened, see what didn't work in case I ever decide to actually start another one.

[thorr-kan]

"Beer Crowd"? What's that?
"Beer & pretzels gaming." The casual, pickup gaming crowd. As opposed to the RPGA/Adventure League/Pathfinder Society crowd.

Different styles of playing.

[T.G. Oskar]

I wouldn't say 3.x/PF1 is dying. It's just that 5e is the "it" thing right now, so people prefer to play 5e than play 3.x. I like both editions (currently playing 5e, having a lot of fun with it, but I have a lot of 3.x builds in the backburner) and even d20 Modern (bought Urban Arcana recently online, for an absurdly cheap price, and planning to get my hands on d20 Past and d20 Future), and I'd love playing with people that do those editions (not feeling like DMing right now, even though it's not longer than a year ago that I GM'ed a d20 Modern "Monster of the Week" TV series-esque campaign), but sadly, not everyone where I live knows what D&D is, and if they do, they'd prefer the simpler, looser mechanics of 5e than the more complex mechanics of 3.x. Still, I know at least two people that do know and would love to play 3.x, so it's just a matter of finding the day (which will be extremely difficult, judging by my work) and the place.

As for Iron Chef; it's mostly the judging. People still do a ton of builds (if the ingredient's popular, you can easily see 10 to 15 builds; just ask Heliomance how she handles all those builds), but the issue is with the judges. I judged before, but after the community arranged for a structured aspect, I basically dropped from judging. I judge freeform, not really looking to meet specific criteria but mostly whether they fit, and how they fit, each point; loosely, of course. Even if I judged by criteria, it takes quite some time to evaluate each entry, and a lot of books to consult (hence, why obscure entries are often docked points in Elegance, because it implies searching for nooks and crannies). As for participating...I'm basically "retired", though I'd drop my hat to compete if the right ingredient appeared; there's only ONE ingredient I'd be willing to participate, and that'd be my final attempt to snatch gold. I still check the threads every now and then, in case I see something interesting, but that depends on the muse.

PF could do Iron Chef competitions, but there's a little issue there; PF prefers monoclassing than multiclasing or entering prestige classes. They kept PrCs from their base, but as the game progressed, it died down. I made a build using a PrC (Gray Gardener) since it fit basically everything I was looking for, but the few PrCs I've seen are downright atrocious, and the Gray Gardener is one of the few good ones IMO. Again: since most are atrocious, they're perfect entries (the idea behind IC is to look for a solid, useful and fun build using a PrC that'd be considered otherwise weak, boring or downright unplayable), but most PF optimization is focused around choosing the right archetype and building on that single class. Then there's the fact that PF2 just released, so it depends on how people embrace the new system. Maybe it's just that Iron Chef is so entwined with 3.x that a PF version isn't as alluring?

[Zaq]

If it were 3.PF I'd be more interested as that is what I play ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean, technically I haven't actually played in a 3.5 game since, like, '15 or '16? If that? Doesn't make the contests less fun for me. YMMV, of course.

[AnimeTheCat]

"Beer & pretzels gaming." The casual, pickup gaming crowd. As opposed to the RPGA/Adventure League/Pathfinder Society crowd.

Different styles of playing.

I guess I see what you mean, but Elves said this:

I don't think 3.5 is actually dying. It has a surprising amount of presence, actually, almost everyone who isn't part of the "beer crowd" knows about it and I see 3.5 books in a lot of unexpected places IRL (maybe just because they look so much nicer than the 5e ones).
which is why I was confused at first. I understand different play styles, but play styles are system neutral. You can play casual games of 3.5e just as easily as you can 5e, since the play style is dependent upon the player.

Doesn't matter, and it's not a big deal. I was just curious because I had never heard the term before.

[Gallowglass]

To me, that reads like he/she is denigrating casual gamers.

"Oh - the "beer crowd' play 5th E, but us serious gamers, we play 3.5"

Probably didn't mean it to sound that way, but that's just how it reads to me.

As you said, different play-styles does not equal better or worse play-styles.

I don't know if 3.5E is "dying" but it certainly is losing players and online interest on forums like this. Look at the rate of posts and new threads in the 3.5 forum vs the 5e forum. There are dozens or more of posters who used to post in 3.5 who now post in 5e exclusively.

But I don't know if that equates to "dying". I think 3.5 has a niche interest group of lifestyle gamers who will cling on for another decade or more.

I know that, at my age, with my friends, my interest in learning a new system is nil.

Old role playing systems never die.

I mean, in Kansas City for example, the ONLY consistently advertised, consistently offered D&D game on meetup is a 1stE game for crying out loud.

Never dies.

[Elves]

"Oh - the "beer crowd' play 5th E, but us serious gamers, we play 3.5"


I'm anything but a "serious gamer", I haven't played a TT game for years. 5e was designed intentionally to be more casual and vanilla, so I don't see what you'd resist in that statement. It's a safe, toned-down mixture of previous editions, and it's achieved what it financially intended, helped along by the vogue for D&D podcasts.

As someone who likes both 3e and 4e it's exactly that milquetoast quality that drives me away from it, not primarily its lack of optimization space (I also find its cartoony aesthetic and hideous book design outrageously alienating, which is just a personal hangup, except that they seem to me like part of its milquetoastifying agenda).

If you hold the 5e books and look at them...they seem inescapably cheap and tacky, not classic and enduring.

[Gallowglass]

I'm anything but a "serious gamer", I haven't played a TT game for years. 5e was designed intentionally to be more casual and vanilla, so I don't see what you'd resist in that statement. It's a safe, toned-down mixture of previous editions, and it's achieved what it financially intended, helped along by the vogue for D&D podcasts.

As someone who likes both 3e and 4e it's exactly that milquetoast quality that drives me away from it, not primarily its lack of optimization space (I also find its cartoony aesthetic and hideous book design outrageously alienating, which is just a personal hangup, except that they seem to me like part of its milquetoastifying agenda).

If you hold the 5e books and look at them...they seem inescapably cheap and tacky, not classic and enduring.

I may not agree with your analysis, even if I'm in tune with your sentiment, but I give you mad props for inventing "milquetoastifying" as an adjective. That made my morning.

[Psyren]

Eh, I'd say 5th has a lot more room for optimization than 4th, even if some (much?) I'of it relies on DM interpretation.


I mean, technically I haven't actually played in a 3.5 game since, like, '15 or '16? If that? Doesn't make the contests less fun for me. YMMV, of course.

It's not just the classes, ACFs and PrCs though - I also like PF races, PF items, PF spells, PF feats, PF skills and traits etc. etc.

[Lorddenorstrus]

Eh, I'd say 5th has a lot more room for optimization than 4th, even if some (much?) I'of it relies on DM interpretation.



It's not just the classes, ACFs and PrCs though - I also like PF races, PF items, PF spells, PF feats, PF skills and traits etc. etc.

What do you use from 3.X? Sounds like entirely Pathfinder. Which arguably is the debate if people ever tried to run 3.P competitions. Which rules from which half do people use? It seems highly varied. Personally we use chunks of PF but majority is 3.5. seems you're the reverse.

[Psyren]

What do you use from 3.X? Sounds like entirely Pathfinder. Which service arguably is the debate if people ever tried to run 3.P competitions. Which rules from which half do people use? It seems highly varied. Personally we use chunks of PF but majority is 3.5. seems you're the reverse.

Classes that don't have a good analogue in Pathfinder like Dragonfire Adept and Truenamer; 3.5-only feats like Divine Metamagic; 3.5 items/properties like Sizing etc.

But yes, that's another part of the problem - the spectrum of 3.PF varies quite a bit from table to table. My groups personally use more of a PF base with 3.5 material ported in, while others are the reverse, but any kind of 3.P competition would need to decide on something standard.

[AnimeTheCat]

Classes that don't have a good analogue in Pathfinder like Dragonfire Adept and Truenamer; 3.5-only feats like Divine Metamagic; 3.5 items/properties like Sizing etc.

But yes, that's another part of the problem - the spectrum of 3.PF varies quite a bit from table to table. My groups personally use more of a PF base with 3.5 material ported in, while others are the reverse, but any kind of 3.P competition would need to decide on something standard.

Sort of a 3.P vs P.5 conundrum it would seem

[weckar]

If I've said it once, I've said it a a thousand times: the current competition format is skewed to the point where it is broken--but it can be fixed. Judging is the issue. There is no inherent reward to judging, even though it is a lot of work. In the past I have proposed several judge-less systems of competition, but none of these ever seem to take.

[pabelfly]

If I've said it once, I've said it a a thousand times: the current competition format is skewed to the point where it is broken--but it can be fixed. Judging is the issue. There is no inherent reward to judging, even though it is a lot of work. In the past I have proposed several judge-less systems of competition, but none of these ever seem to take.

I've started judging the Iron Chef Competition. Actually pretty interesting to do, and seeing how builds work in close detail is rather educational. Have only started but so far I would recommend it and would do it again for other competitions if I don't enter them myself.

You could do a judgeless competition with strawpoll votes, I suppose. Don't think it has as much worth as a single in-depth analysis does though.

[daremetoidareyo]

I've started judging the Iron Chef Competition. Actually pretty interesting to do, and seeing how builds work in close detail is rather educational. Have only started but so far I would recommend it and would do it again for other competitions if I don't enter them myself.

You could do a judgeless competition with strawpoll votes, I suppose. Don't think it has as much worth as a single in-depth analysis does though.

The balance has skewed since i started here. early comps had a lot more...brevity.

[weckar]

The suggestion I made was to have every competitor judge all other entrants. Easy, and self-fulfilling.

[daremetoidareyo]

The suggestion I made was to have every competitor judge all other entrants. Easy, and self-fulfilling.

This is how we ran gamewarpers, before my inexorable pace of life got supercharged

[PoeticallyPsyco]

The suggestion I made was to have every competitor judge all other entrants. Easy, and self-fulfilling.


This is how we ran gamewarpers, before my inexorable pace of life got supercharged

It worked pretty well, but it did make disputes impossible the way we were doing it, which was proving to be a problem (not a big problem, but a noticeable one).

[weckar]

If it proves too much workload you could even randomize the judging secret santa style.

[Zaq]

The balance has skewed since i started here. early comps had a lot more...brevity.

What? Why are you all looking at me like that? The guilty flee even when none pursue...

[jdizzlean]

really the stigma is thinking the judge has to be some kind of d&d expert. it's actually the opposite, anyone can judge, and if anyone did, everyone would benefit from it. it just takes some time investment to do so.

aside from that, the dispute process can be valid, but is more often than naught just an attempt to grab more points. i would almost propose only a single dispute/answer from a judge to be it, instead of adding on a rebuttal. that would shorten that part of it dramatically, and allow for overall more contests.

[pabelfly]

really the stigma is thinking the judge has to be some kind of d&d expert. it's actually the opposite, anyone can judge, and if anyone did, everyone would benefit from it. it just takes some time investment to do so.

I think you'd actually get more out of judging if you only have a passing familiarity with the game. You'd learn various optimization tricks, see how builds work in detail, look up rulings, and learn about various mechanical systems in the game. Very educational so far.

[Lorddenorstrus]

really the stigma is thinking the judge has to be some kind of d&d expert. it's actually the opposite, anyone can judge, and if anyone did, everyone would benefit from it. it just takes some time investment to do so.

aside from that, the dispute process can be valid, but is more often than naught just an attempt to grab more points. i would almost propose only a single dispute/answer from a judge to be it, instead of adding on a rebuttal. that would shorten that part of it dramatically, and allow for overall more contests.

That's fair, I put myself in the "able to decently optimize" but not good enough to compete/judge in those heavy hitter competitions. I've looked at old builds for character ideas before and some are just fairly crazy, beyond what I'd think of. Many I had to look up a rule or so on to figure out why it even worked.

[Zaq]

That's fair, I put myself in the "able to decently optimize" but not good enough to compete/judge in those heavy hitter competitions. I've looked at old builds for character ideas before and some are just fairly crazy, beyond what I'd think of. Many I had to look up a rule or so on to figure out why it even worked.

Dude, I consider myself a veteran here and a contest regular, so trust me when I say that needing to look up rules does not in any way mean that you don’t know what you’re doing or that you aren’t good enough.

I look up every bleeding thing when I’m judging, just to make sure that I’m looking at it with fresh eyes and with the actual RAW in my mind. That’s good. That’s normal. And it’s not all “oh, I think I know this but I’d better be sure”—there’s always new stuff in each round that I’m not familiar with at all. Every single time! That’s what the books are for, though. I don’t have to know it ahead of time if I can look up the rules and come to a good understanding of what the chef is trying to do. Which will usually be aided by the write-up; most chefs understand that if they’re diving deep into something uncommon, it’s in their best interest to spell it out for the judges.

I mean, you should ideally be able to parse what you’re reading (this is not a high bar if the chef isn’t doing something outright dumb), but knowing it before reading it is absolutely not a prerequisite.

[Darrin]

The suggestion I made was to have every competitor judge all other entrants. Easy, and self-fulfilling.

I made a similar suggestion. It's a variant of Ranked Choice Voting. There are some issues, however, if the number of contestants is low... it could result in a lot of ties. However, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Sharing medals in Iron Chef does happen on occasion. I actually like having more medal-winners.


really the stigma is thinking the judge has to be some kind of d&d expert. it's actually the opposite, anyone can judge, and if anyone did, everyone would benefit from it. it just takes some time investment to do so.


The only requirement for judging is you must produce a number for each build. You do not have to be an expert in the rules. You do not have to follow a rigorous rubric or compile a spreadsheet of micro-fractions. You can use whatever criteria you wish, or no criteria at all. (You may make people *upset* if you aren't consistent, but that's a whole nuther can of worms.)

That being said... the best way to get really, really good at putting together optimized builds? Judge Iron Chef. Yes, it can be a lot of book-diving and crawling down obscure rabbit holes, but you learn *so* *much* when you take a build apart, figure out what makes it tick, and then put it back together in your head.

But you aren't *required* to do all of that work to judge. It can be as simple as "I like this. I don't like this. This number is a rough approximation of how much I either like or don't like this build."


I think there was some discussion about Helio handing off the reins to someone else after the big "C", which she's got plans for. (I forget if someone volunteered? I think a few veterans expressed an interest.) If a new chairperson wants to make some changes to the judging to speed things up... might be worth an experiment or two.