Stuck on class - Wizard, Warlock...Sorcerer?

[Mikaleus]

Hello everyone.

I’m bout to join a campaign dealing with plenty of fiends and undead.

Level 3, base starting equipment. Rolled stats of 8 13 14 15 16 16.
The group consists of
Hunter ranger
Berserker Barbarian
Dreams Druid
Moon Druid
Tempest Cleric

I’m stuck on picking a class for this party.
In mind, I have 3 classes.
Wizard - initially Bladesinger but open to suggestions.
Warlock- thinking Hexblade or maybe Celestial.
Paladin- As has been pointed out, Devotion would shine in this campaign.

I’ve played a defence focused Ancients paladin before, and a level 1 wizard in an introductory session to ghosts of Saltmarsh at our local game store, and have only seen warlocks in action in a prior and a current game.

**Also thanks to Bloodsnake’sCha for their earlier responses.

BobtheWizard also has pointed out the benefits a devotion paladin has for the party. Thanks bob**

[BloodSnake'sCha]

There are endless advices that can be given, can you be more specific?

[Mikaleus]

There are endless advices that can be given, can you be more specific?
Sure.
A lot of the archfey features seem to be focused on charmed and frightened conditions. I’m thinking this might limit my effectiveness against creatures where such conditions might not affect them.
Specifically -
Fey Presence
At 1st level, as an action, you can cause each creature in a 10 ft cube around you to make a Wisdom saving throw against your spell save DC. Those that fail are charmed or frightened (your choice) until the end of your next turn.
Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
Beguiling Defenses
At 10th level, you become immune to being charmed, and when another creature attempts to charm you, you can use your reaction to reverse the charm back on them. They must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw versus your spell save DC or be charmed by you for
1 minute or until the creature takes damage.
Dark Delirium
At 14th level, as an action, choose a creature you can see within 60 ft. It must make a Wisdom saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failed save, it is charmed or frightened by you (your choice) for 1 minute or until your concentration is broken. This effect ends early if the creature takes any damage.
Until this illusion ends, the creature thinks it is lost in a misty realm, the appearance is as you choose. It can see and hear only itself, you, and the illusion.
You must finish a short or long rest before using this feature again.


I’m guessing a celestial pact would probably fit more especially with elemental adept fire to ignore fire resistances I’m bound to come across.

Was also interested in anyone sharing their experiences with the subclass in similar campaigns :)

[BloodSnake'sCha]

From what I know half of undead aren't immune to charmed or frightened, most of fiend are immune to charmed or frightened.

Your level 1 feature will have hard time working.
You get strong spells that will work.

Dominate beast and person will only work if you will find beasts and humanoids.

It can work, you will just need to not focus on charms and fear.


Edit:
Level 10 feature - you are still immune to charm(great vs some fiends, not important vs other) and sometimes the Charming back will work.

Level 14 feature - even if they are immune to the charm/frighten they are unaware to your allies.

[Mikaleus]

Thanks for the advice :)

[Bobthewizard]

Hello everyone.

I’m bout to join a campaign dealing with plenty of fiends and undead.

Level 3, base starting equipment. Rolled stats of 8 13 14 15 16 16.
The group consists of
Hunter ranger
Berserker Barbarian
Dreams Druid
Moon Druid
Tempest Cleric

Decided to go with an arcane character who can cast and slash.

Either Hexblade or Bladesinger would be fine. In this campaign, you could consider a Devotion Paladin. Turn the Unholy is perfect against fiends and undead, and Aura of Devotion will help the party resist a vampire's charm. It's not arcane but it can still cast some cool spells and hits better than anything else in the game. The druids and cleric can manage control and blasting so you don't really need an arcane caster.

[Mikaleus]

Either Hexblade or Bladesinger would be fine. In this campaign, you could consider a Devotion Paladin. Turn the Unholy is perfect against fiends and undead, and Aura of Devotion will help the party resist a vampire's charm. It's not arcane but it can still cast some cool spells and hits better than anything else in the game. The druids and cleric can manage control and blasting so you don't really need an arcane caster.

A very valid option. As a half I could start with some solid stats, maybe even go half elf with a booming blade, and start with solid stats or go Vuman, obtain an appropriate feat and only be down on one ASI vs the half elf.
I played the ancients paladin as a sword and board with defence style to be as tanky as I could be.
Should I stick to this defence style or try something different ?

[Fable Wright]

You have two ranged damage dealers (Hunter, Tempest Cleric). You have two melee damage monkeys (Barbarian, Moon Druid). You have healing like no tomorrow (two Druids and a Cleric).

I don't know how Dreams Druid plans on playing, but it seems likely that the next role to double up on is battlefield control. Wizard for Sickening Radiance to combo with the Druid's Plant Growth, or comboing Wall of Force with their Moonbeam to maximize the DoT potential, opens up a lot of doors.

I'd say Wizard. If nothing else than for Tiny Hut to keep the demons out at night.

[Mikaleus]

You have two ranged damage dealers (Hunter, Tempest Cleric). You have two melee damage monkeys (Barbarian, Moon Druid). You have healing like no tomorrow (two Druids and a Cleric).

I don't know how Dreams Druid plans on playing, but it seems likely that the next role to double up on is battlefield control. Wizard for Sickening Radiance to combo with the Druid's Plant Growth, or comboing Wall of Force with their Moonbeam to maximize the DoT potential, opens up a lot of doors.

I'd say Wizard. If nothing else than for Tiny Hut to keep the demons out at night.

Good points. Should I focus on Bladesinger or change to another school?

[Fable Wright]

Good points. Should I focus on Bladesinger or change to another school?

No tradition is notably better at lockdown than the others. Bladesinger has excellent concentration abilities and extra attack is better than spamming cantrips. I might lean to Evocation for silly combos like Sculpted Sickening Radiance or a friendly Thunderwave to help struggling party members disengage, plus Magic Missile boosting to punch right through demon defenses. (A level in Hexblade supercharges this.)

But really, for your purposes, it's all a matter of taste.

[Bobthewizard]

I'd say Wizard. If nothing else than for Tiny Hut to keep the demons out at night.

I always agree with this. Every party can use a wizard!


Good points. Should I focus on Bladesinger or change to another school?

Any are fine. Play whichever one seems like the most fun for you. Evocation opens up a different style of play with sculpt spells. Divination is fun with single save or suck spells. Bladesinger and Enchantment are great too.

[Mikaleus]

I always agree with this. Every party can use a wizard!



Any are fine. Play whichever one seems like the most fun for you. Evocation opens up a different style of play with sculpt spells. Divination is fun with single save or suck spells. Bladesinger and Enchantment are great too.

Yeah I think the sheer amount of options for wizards is what has deterred me in playing one in a campaign in the past.

Evocation is solid, and very tempting. I’ll be going with Gnome (never played one before) or High Elf.

I might even roll a d4 and assign a school to each possible result.

So
D1. Bladesinger
D2. Divination (I’m using a dice to obtain a result couldn’t not add this school)
D3. Evocation
D4. War wizard

[Fable Wright]

Yeah I think the sheer amount of options for wizards is what has deterred me in playing one in a campaign in the past.

Evocation is solid, and very tempting. I’ll be going with Gnome (never played one before) or High Elf.

I might even roll a d4 and assign a school to each possible result.

So
D1. Bladesinger
D2. Divination (I’m using a dice to obtain a result couldn’t not add this school)
D3. Evocation
D4. War wizard

I've had a lot of fun with gnome. You've played Shepherd Druids. You know what always-on Speak With Animals is like, and it comes with bonus cantrips. It is strong, and also comes with magic resist on half your stats.

I'd go High Elf for Bladesinger, just because those extra weapon proficiencies are very handy for bladesinging. The rest, go gnome. It adds a lot of out of combat utility to the table and is just fun.

[GnollPaladin]

Can I approach this from another angle?

Who is going to do your (cha-)skills based stuff? We’re talking charm (and fear) immunity a lot, but (some) of the fun of fiends is in the talking. Who will roll your persuasion and deception checks?

If you expect little of this in play, this angle is less important.

[Mikaleus]

Can I approach this from another angle?

Who is going to do your (cha-)skills based stuff? We’re talking charm (and fear) immunity a lot, but (some) of the fun of fiends is in the talking. Who will roll your persuasion and deception checks?

If you expect little of this in play, this angle is less important.

This was a reason why I’d been looking at warlock.

I suppose a sorcerer could be an option too.

I’m settled on arcane based character

[Spiritchaser]

I’d be inclined to go either tomelock or wizard (any) for arcane utility and rituals.

You’ll want a party face, and ideally you’d know if one of the other characters has that covered. If they do, wizard is a no- brainer... it’s just the more versatile caster there is in 5e.

As tough wizard builds go, I like war wizard and definitely abjurer better than bladesinger, but the base wizard setup is so strong that bladesinger will be just fine if that’s what you want. Somewhere around here there’s a hobgoblin “iron wizard” template that seems about perfect for a tough as nails god.

If none of the others have a decent cha and at least persuasion, you might consider tomelock, especially if one of the others has a decent int and some complimentary skills.

Alternatively it IS possible for a wizard to take a modest CHA and persuasion, though you’ll typically have less luck with int cha than wis cha. Insight and persuasion together is a pretty important combo, and it’s really best on the same character.

[Mikaleus]

I’d be inclined to go either tomelock or wizard (any) for arcane utility and rituals.

You’ll want a party face, and ideally you’d know if one of the other characters has that covered. If they do, wizard is a no- brainer... it’s just the more versatile caster there is in 5e.

As tough wizard builds go, I like war wizard and definitely abjurer better than bladesinger, but the base wizard setup is so strong that bladesinger will be just fine if that’s what you want. Somewhere around here there’s a hobgoblin “iron wizard” template that seems about perfect for a tough as nails god.

If none of the others have a decent cha and at least persuasion, you might consider tomelock, especially if one of the others has a decent int and some complimentary skills.

Alternatively it IS possible for a wizard to take a modest CHA and persuasion, though you’ll typically have less luck with int cha than wis cha. Insight and persuasion together is a pretty important combo, and it’s really best on the same character.
None of the others are party faces.

With my rolled stats as gnome, I could have a 14 in wisdom and 13 in charisma.

Tome lock would be interesting but patron wise I couldn’t decide on one. I don’t want to pick celestial (story reasons via DM) and I’m not sure how well fey or fiend would stack up against fiends.

If I went with a warlock or sorcerer, I’d prob pick half elf and have a starting stat of 18 in charisma.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

None of the others are party faces.

With my rolled stats as gnome, I could have a 14 in wisdom and 13 in charisma.

Tome lock would be interesting but patron wise I couldn’t decide on one. I don’t want to pick celestial (story reasons via DM) and I’m not sure how well fey or fiend would stack up against fiends.

If I went with a warlock or sorcerer, I’d prob pick half elf and have a starting stat of 18 in charisma.

Why not Warlock and Sorcerer?
They work nicely together and it is an easy way to become a social character (subtle suggestion is really nice "guard Capitan, you are needed in the other side of the base, we heard you and we are leaving the forbidden area".).

You can fell free to use spells everytime because they come back on a short rest and you still have some to nova a big fight.

You can even supercharger before a big fight by not sleeping and trying a con save to not exhaust yourself.
You can always try to hire a beautiful paladin to sleep with(you need to stay awake) in order to not fail.

[Spiritchaser]

Sorlocks are great, and subtle spell is my favourite metamagic option of all... but it’s going to be really helpful for that party to have some arcane rituals... and tomelock scales with warlock level. Sorlocks are likely to have mostly lower level tomes if they have them at all.

I would only suggest a sorlock if at least someone complements the party with ritual caster (wizard), though depending on the DM and the campaign, this can be a pretty poor substitute for a real wizard.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Sorlocks are great, and subtle spell is my favourite metamagic option of all... but it’s going to be really helpful for that party to have some arcane rituals... and tomelock scales with warlock level. Sorlocks are likely to have mostly lower level tomes if they have them at all.

I would only suggest a sorlock if at least someone complements the party with ritual caster (wizard), though depending on the DM and the campaign, this can be a pretty poor substitute for a real wizard.

A bard with ritual caster always work but this is a utility build that can blast, not a blaster/support.

Why I am thinking he want a blaster/support? Something is weird here.

[Bobthewizard]

None of the others are party faces.

With my rolled stats as gnome, I could have a 14 in wisdom and 13 in charisma.

Tome lock would be interesting but patron wise I couldn’t decide on one. I don’t want to pick celestial (story reasons via DM) and I’m not sure how well fey or fiend would stack up against fiends.

If I went with a warlock or sorcerer, I’d prob pick half elf and have a starting stat of 18 in charisma.

If you put the 14 in charisma and take proficiency in persuasion, you'll be great as the face of the party even as a wizard. Play a sorcerer or warlock if you want to but not for 2 extra points on a persuasion check. Someone needs to make history and arcana checks too. Add suggestion or charm person if you think you need it. With wisdom proficiency and gnome advantage on magic saves, 13 wisdom is fine.

[Fable Wright]

If you put the 14 in charisma and take proficiency in persuasion, you'll be great as the face of the party even as a wizard. Play a sorcerer or warlock if you want to but not for 2 extra points on a persuasion check. Someone needs to make history and arcana checks too. Add suggestion or charm person if you think you need it. With wisdom proficiency and gnome advantage on magic saves, 13 wisdom is fine.

Adding onto this, Friends makes you a good social face for getting past door guards and other one-off social interactions.

And that gnomes with good Persuasion are amazing for convincing animals to do scouting for the party, and similar things.

[Mikaleus]

Thankyou for the replies everyone. Thinking it’ll be Forest Gnome Wizard.

And now watch as a Fey Soul bloodline is released as an option for Sorcerer 🤣😂

Initially I was heavily leaning towards Feylock 🙃

[JellyPooga]

Thankyou for the replies everyone. Thinking it’ll be Forest Gnome Wizard.

And now watch as a Fey Soul bloodline is released as an option for Sorcerer 🤣😂

Initially I was heavily leaning towards Feylock 🙃

Just throwing this out there, because you mentioned the potential for the game featuring a lot of undead, but have you considered an Undying Patron Warlock. I know, I know, the pervading wisdom is that the Undying Patron is pretty crummy, but hear me out! Among the Dying is niche in most campaigns (though not that niche; I'd be willing to bet that a large majority of campaigns have or will feature undead at some point, but I digress...), but if you know there'll be a lot of undead, then that always-on pseudo-Sanctuary effect could be a literal life-saver. It's got a pretty tasty bonus spell list too.

[Mikaleus]

Just throwing this out there, because you mentioned the potential for the game featuring a lot of undead, but have you considered an Undying Patron Warlock. I know, I know, the pervading wisdom is that the Undying Patron is pretty crummy, but hear me out! Among the Dying is niche in most campaigns (though not that niche; I'd be willing to bet that a large majority of campaigns have or will feature undead at some point, but I digress...), but if you know there'll be a lot of undead, then that always-on pseudo-Sanctuary effect could be a literal life-saver. It's got a pretty tasty bonus spell list too.
It had been considered :)