Scrolls vs. Potions

[Greywander]

I was just looking at the Artificer, and I noticed that each subclass gets 4x crafting speed at 1/2 cost for a particular subset of items. Specifically, the Alchemist does potions and the Archivist does scrolls. These both fill similar functions, so I was wondering which one people think might be better.

My initial impression is that the benefits of potions are that they don't use concentration, while the benefits of scrolls are the much larger variety of effects you can get (e.g. any spell, more or less). Which one of these would be more useful? Which one would you actually use more? The scrolls seem more versatile, but since you can already cast that spell, the potions seem like something you'd actually use more.

Also, I'm noticing that XGtE has competing rules for crafting magic items (including potions and scrolls) and for scribing scrolls. A legendary magic item costs 100k gp and takes 50 weeks to craft, but this is specifically halved for consumable items like potions and scrolls (so 50k gp and 25 weeks to craft), but in the section on scribing scrolls, a 9th level spell costs a whopping 250k gp and takes 48 weeks to scribe. Why don't these two match up?

[PhoenixPhyre]

Also, I'm noticing that XGtE has competing rules for crafting magic items (including potions and scrolls) and for scribing scrolls. A legendary magic item costs 100k gp and takes 50 weeks to craft, but this is specifically halved for consumable items like potions and scrolls (so 50k gp and 25 weeks to craft), but in the section on scribing scrolls, a 9th level spell costs a whopping 250k gp and takes 48 weeks to scribe. Why don't these two match up?

Because scrolls don't use the standard magic item crafting at all. They're a separate category. Differences include:
* No need for a formula or expensive component
* different progress rates/costs
* different proficiencies/requirements (need to be able to cast the spell in question rather than having a tool proficiency/Arcana proficiency)

Other consumables, such as potions, beads of force, etc. are halved. Scrolls are their own thing.

[NaughtyTiger]

My initial impression is that the benefits of potions are that they don't use concentration, while the benefits of scrolls are the much larger variety of effects you can get (e.g. any spell, more or less). Which one of these would be more useful? Which one would you actually use more? The scrolls seem more versatile, but since you can already cast that spell, the potions seem like something you'd actually use more.

hand the potion to the barbarian and she can destroy the world.
hand a scroll to the barbarian, she will destroy the scroll (ie, she can't use it)

[RickAllison]

I’d say Potions are better for a dedicated Artificer, while scrolls are better for someone who is only dipping and otherwise is a full caster. Unless you have a Thief or another caster who will be able to make use of the scrolls, their primary use is to have niche spells on hand so you don’t need to prepare them while having access to them, or other specialty purposes. Potions are much more versatile because you can share the effects, especially if you have a Many-Handed Pouch holding them.

[Greywander]

Because scrolls don't use the standard magic item crafting at all. They're a separate category.
Yes and no. There is a separate section for scribing scrolls, but in the general magic item crafting section it specifically says that the prices and crafting times are halved for consumable items, like potions and scrolls. If I had to guess, someone probably wrote the general magic item crafting first, then they decided to make scroll scribing a separate thing, but forgot to remove the references to scrolls in the general magic items. Maybe there's an errata floating around somewhere that clarifies this. I'm still scratching my head over the massive discrepancies in cost and crafting time, though.


hand the potion to the barbarian and she can destroy the world.
hand a scroll to the barbarian, she will destroy the scroll (ie, she can't use it)
This is a good point. Scrolls are largely limited in use to people who can already cast the spell, so again it begs the question of why not just cast the spell normally? That said, scrolls definitely still have a niche, like casting a spell you don't have prepared, or after you've run out of spell slots. (Which, again, makes me wonder why scrolls take so long to scribe and require so much money?)


I’d say Potions are better for a dedicated Artificer, while scrolls are better for someone who is only dipping and otherwise is a full caster. Unless you have a Thief or another caster who will be able to make use of the scrolls, their primary use is to have niche spells on hand so you don’t need to prepare them while having access to them, or other specialty purposes. Potions are much more versatile because you can share the effects, especially if you have a Many-Handed Pouch holding them.
This is pretty much what I was thinking as well. A full caster, like a wizard, is going to have access to a lot more spells, and ergo can scribe a wider variety of scrolls. So for an artificer dip on a wizard, the Archivist might make more sense. But the artificer is a half caster, so they don't get as many spells, ergo they have less variety in spell scrolls. However, nothing is limiting you in potions, except finding or creating the recipe.

I'm curious just how often people actually use either potion crafting or scroll scribing, though. Have you ever used them in your games? I'm considering a houserule that drastically cuts down the time, at least, and likely cost as well (for scrolls, at least), so that crafting them is actually feasible in a reasonable time frame. But I'd also like to hear from people who have actual experience crafting these items, as I might be overreacting to something I'm not experienced with.

[Protolisk]

It might not matter as much now since it looks there there are only 3 subclasses, and it was explicitly the Alchemist, Artillerist, and Battlesmith that made the cut, so the scroll writing Archivist didn't make it. Maybe it'll be back in a later book.

Check it out at this time stamp. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq85-bVJwh0&feature=youtu.be&t=1737)

[RickAllison]

It might not matter as much now since it looks there there are only 3 subclasses, and it was explicitly the Alchemist, Artillerist, and Battlesmith that made the cut, so the scroll writing Archivist didn't make it. Maybe it'll be back in a later book.

Check it out at this time stamp. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq85-bVJwh0&feature=youtu.be&t=1737)

That doesn’t surprise me at all, it was kind of weird and less polished than the rest. When your pet takes as much page space as entire other archetypes, it might be a bit much.

[Bjarkmundur]

I know nothing about artificers and very little about the RAW crafting system. But, look at it this way. Scrolls give you more uses of the spells you have. Potions gives you access to things you get nowhere else. So what do you want? More of the same, or effects unique to Potions?

Then you introduce the art of mixing Potions and discovering rare ingredients, and you have to admit it sounds much more interesting than Scrolls...