Nerveskitter, Mass

[Tindragon]

Thinking of designing this spell.

No changes, other than

"Targets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart"

Same as Haste.

3rd level appropriate?

[Tindragon]

...hrmm, although, maybe 2nd, since Snake Swiftness, mass, only jumps 1 level...

Thoughts?

[Rebel7284]

Take a look at Shock and Awe spell. It's not quite the same since the enemy getting a surprise round can stop it, but it can be close to Nerveskitter, Mass

[Biggus]

I'd say 3rd level, in general mass versions of spells being only +1 level seems too good value to me. Some mass spells are 3 or even 4 levels higher than their basic versions (Bull's Strength series and Cure wounds for example).

[Khedrac]

It's the equivalent of Chain Spell applied to nerveskitter which takes a 4th level slot.
Now, that should serve a a ceiling (no higher than 4th) rather than a definite guide to level, but i think the spell would be very powerful for level 2.

(I used to play a War Weaver who used to cast nerveskitter at the start of fights, it was very powerful.)

[heavyfuel]

It's the equivalent of Chain Spell applied to nerveskitter which takes a 4th level slot.
Now, that should serve a a ceiling (no higher than 4th) rather than a definite guide to level, but i think the spell would be very powerful for level 2.

(I used to play a War Weaver who used to cast nerveskitter at the start of fights, it was very powerful.)

Why should it be a ceiling? If anything it should be a floor. The guy that invested a feat shouldn't get screwed because suddenly you can research spells that make his feat irrelevant.

In a game where going first can very well decide the winning side, it's still above average in power to a 6th lv spell.

As a matter of fact, since we're in homebrew territory, I'm gonna go ahead and say that Nerveskitter is extremely broken for its level. No wonder it's always number one suggestion when it comes spell choices and wand chambers.

Nerveskitter should be lv 3 and the mass version should be lv 7. I could see a "mass" version being a burst centered on the caster (instead of targeted like Haste) for 6th level

[Biggus]

Why should it be a ceiling? If anything it should be a floor. The guy that invested a feat shouldn't get screwed because suddenly you can research spells that make his feat irrelevant.

In a game where going first can very well decide the winning side, it's still above average in power to a 6th lv spell.

As a matter of fact, since we're in homebrew territory, I'm gonna go ahead and say that Nerveskitter is extremely broken for its level. No wonder it's always number one suggestion when it comes spell choices and wand chambers.

Nerveskitter should be lv 3 and the mass version should be lv 7. I could see a "mass" version being a burst centered on the caster (instead of targeted like Haste) for 6th level

Agreed that Nerveskitter is very good for a 1st-level spell (pretty much every Wizard or Sorcerer I've ever played has it). I'm not certain it should be 3rd level, but definitely 2nd would be reasonable.

DMG (p.35) says "if a spell is so good that you can't imagine a caster not wanting it all the time, it's either too powerful or too low in level", and Mass Nerveskitter as a 2nd-level spell certainly fits that description. Now I come to think about it, even at 3rd level it does, you're right that 4th level should be the minimum.

[Endarire]

Chain Spell is overpriced. Mass nerveskitter seems more fair as a level 3 and weak as a level 4. Is it really worth a polymorph or dimension door or Evard's black tentacles or orb of X or solid fog or improved invisibility or stoneskin? Probably not to me.

[heavyfuel]

Chain Spell is overpriced. Mass nerveskitter seems more fair as a level 3 and weak as a level 4. Is it really worth a polymorph or dimension door or Evard's black tentacles or orb of X or solid fog or improved invisibility or stoneskin? Probably not to me.

Chain Spell, one of the most abusable matamagic feats, is overpriced? Lol ok

Sure is. If you lose initiative you might not get to cast any of these spells. If your cleric wins initiative because you cast this spell, then the Mass Nerveskitter has a potency equal to whatever extra spell he got to cast.

Same goes for the rest of party

[ZamielVanWeber]

Chain Spell is overpriced. Mass nerveskitter seems more fair as a level 3 and weak as a level 4. Is it really worth a polymorph or dimension door or Evard's black tentacles or orb of X or solid fog or improved invisibility or stoneskin? Probably not to me.

Mass Nerveskitter scales most than all of those. Many of those spells stop scaling entirely, scale poorly versus monsters, or have downsides that have to be negotiated around. Nerveskitter has none of those and buffs your entire team's alpha strike capabilities as you can just grab a massive buff on a stat that scales poorly for most monsters.