Are Shadows too dangerous to use frequently or modify?

[RickAllison]

I love the idea of the shadow undead, how they are still a credible threat en masse, plus they thematically are a great fit for my game. But I’m wondering if they’ll be too dangerous or difficult to use as more than an occasional gimmick.

[Trickery]

You're talking about the CR 1/2 Shadow, correct?

They're pretty dangerous to use in large numbers. Sooner or later, a PC is going to die from their strength drain effect. That drain is the kind of thing players would love to have since there's no save and, sooner or later, it just kills the target. As a general rule, anything your players would love to have is going to be dangerous for them to face.

However, they're a very cool creature. I'd definitely use them, but I'd be careful of how many I threw at the players at once.

[Tvtyrant]

If they become common enough they would get easier as the characters can spec towards them. Say in your game the Daylight Spell activates their sunlight weakness, so your group keeps lots of it prepared or gets a sunblade. I think they are going to be most threatning when they are rare enough the party can't always be ready for them.

[Protolisk]

They are pretty dangerous. Stats don't grow as fast as HP does, and Strength is one of the stats that rarely gets increased unless you are playing a strength based warrior. Even a maxed out barbarian will be killed within 8 or so hits, and the barbs effectiveness decreases as it gets attacked. Classes that dump strength can die in half the time. These deaths bypass death saves. Once there are multiple shadows they get very deadly very quickly. However, the "damage" they deal is healed on a short rest.

My advice? Be very careful with them.

[Nhorianscum]

I love the idea of the shadow undead, how they are still a credible threat en masse, plus they thematically are a great fit for my game. But I’m wondering if they’ll be too dangerous or difficult to use as more than an occasional gimmick.

I may have made a homebrew campain loosely set in the world of "The Black Company" novels where... a few* shadows are present...

If you don't want PC death don't use shadows en-mass. If you're ok with it feel free to unleash a tidal wave of the suckers. The results are incredible.

*Million**

**The setting has a fixture literally called "the shadowgate". It does what it says on the box.

[RickAllison]

It sounds like maybe I should keep them as a special type of enemy. The kind where my players will dread them when next they come about.

Back to the drawing board on a template for my custom undead!

[Vogie]

Wights could be used as a common wandering enemy, with a variable amount of zombies (or variants thereof) around them.

[Gecks]

I'll add in my agreement that shadow's strength drain, especially in conjunction with their good (for the C/R) stealth abilities and resistance to non-magical weapons, make them very dangerous, and I would recommend caution towards using a lot of them, especially if your party doesn't have a lot of access to AoE radiant damage or if circumstances are likely to limit short rests. In limited quantities they are scary and interesting challenges, even for a higher level party; in bunches or as repeated adversaries, they will make strength based characters frustrated as their combat ability flat-lines, and sooner or later a big group is going to roll high on stealth, slip behind the party, and just decimate the book nerds on the back lines almost instantly, which will probably feel arbitrary and unfair to the players.

There are a lot of existing incorporeal creatures which would be easy to quickly re-flavor as various types shadow monsters (probably just by tossing in a proficiency in stealth and swapping some damage resistances / vulnerabilities around), so that might be an option to fill up your "killer shadow" quota without having the party groan and flip pencils every time they see a shadow twitch in the torchlight.

[NNescio]

It sounds like maybe I should keep them as a special type of enemy. The kind where my players will dread them when next they come about.

Back to the drawing board on a template for my custom undead!

Put shadows without the STR draining effect (keep the necromantic damage part in). Great way to freak out your players.

(Maybe give them a chance to determine that they are different from [and weaker than] MM Shadows, via a Religion check or similar. Otherwise your players might bolt and run all the time without even daring to risk an encounter.)

Also copy the Amorphous, Shadow Stealth and Sunlight Weakness traits (plus resistances/immunities/weaknesses) onto another creature if you want to apply a makeshift Shadow creature template (while striking out any existing traits that don't fit or are unbalancing). Recalculate CR if necessary according to DMG guidelines.

Leave some normal shadows with the STR drain intact for 'special' key encounters. Describe them differently (e.g. the PCs feel a preternatural chill when it approaches) so the players don't feel it's cheap (for the shadow to suddenly regain its MM ability).

[stoutstien]

I love the idea of the shadow undead, how they are still a credible threat en masse, plus they thematically are a great fit for my game. But I’m wondering if they’ll be too dangerous or difficult to use as more than an occasional gimmick.

Look up skulks. Technical not undead but function very similar. Could easy refluff

[Marcotix]

As written, yeah these guys are nasty en mass, but if your willing to houserule and depending on the level of your party "Minionizing" them is a way to get around that while still keeping the spirit of there ability in mind.

SO what I might do is, pick an HP amount (Say 1/2 the average HP of a lvl 6 rogue w/ 12 con) and say that any PC who has more then that amount of HP is simply immune to the shadows str drain effect.

I'd also make them die in one hit, and allow sunlight to act as natural sunlight. Now the PC's have an over-shield of sorts that can help buffer the worst of the shadows while keeping them a unique and dangerous foe.

[Ganders]

Shadows bypass the entire death-saves system. If you change their ability to "If all strength is drained, the target is reduced to 0 hp and is dying" that would be much more manageable.

Actually, come to think of it, they bypass the regular saving throw system too -- if they hit the drain is automatic. That rule could also use a change.

The last problem is ambushes, especially because they're so stealthy. That increases the chance that a whole bunch of shadows will jump out and all surround one character, whether that be a rogue scouting ahead, or the first person to jump across a pit, or a straggling wizard, or whatever. If it's a low-AC character and/or the shadows are given advantage for attacking from hiding, that just makes it worse. It's so easy to get a situation where one character is dead while the rest of the party is untouched, and indeed to have that happen before any of the characters even get to take an action.

If you use the shadows in a way that the group sees them coming instead of an ambush, it's not so lopsided. The party will likely want to use up their highest-DPS actions to stop them before they can close the distance and touch them, so they can be a great resource drainer even if they never successfully touch anyone. It also spreads out the strength drain to different characters so it's more inconvenient than scary. Plus, in the aftermath most or all of the characters will want a short rest instead of most forced to wait around twiddling their thumbs while one recovers from a strength so low they can't even walk.

Properly spread out, easily-spotted Shadows in small numbers are SO different than the instant-death that an ambush tends to create -- they can actually be a nice low-XP-earned way to drain some resources and 'force' a short rest at a specific spot in the dungeon.

[Analytica]

It sounds like maybe I should keep them as a special type of enemy. The kind where my players will dread them when next they come about.

Back to the drawing board on a template for my custom undead!

Make them connected to something eventually plot relevant. Have them only as singlets or a few at first, so players come to believe they are easy. Then eventually, have an encounter where more and more appear each turn, and they will become a true horror - individually weak but swarming, symbolic, central, necessary to flee from when in numbers.

[J-H]

It also depends on your party level and capabilities. I am using them in only 1 spot in my campaign, but it'll be a room with Darkness in it permanently. It could be bad. On the other hand, the party will be at least level 7 when encountering them. If they heighten a Light spell and can see the big pack of Shadows coming... an 8d6+4 fireball (avg 31 damage) from our Dragon sorc will probably kill them flat out.

[MrStabby]

They are good enemies. A nice mix of strengths and weaknesses. Easy enough to fight when the party has the initiative, terrifying when they don't.

I used them extensively in a campaign where some enemies were able to separate off their own shadows to attack. It added a nice extra element of fear to some fights, even more so as there was not a single spell or ability that then worked against everyone in the fight. The possibility f strength drain lead to focusing down on the shadows and bought the other antagonists a bit longer in combat.

I think that as an ambush they can be terrifying. I do like the idea of a trap that turns out the lights. With a high level party it will depend on AC a lot. They are not that good at hitting so if you have given out magic armour then it can make them more reasonable.

[Nhorianscum]

They are good enemies. A nice mix of strengths and weaknesses. Easy enough to fight when the party has the initiative, terrifying when they don't.

I used them extensively in a campaign where some enemies were able to separate off their own shadows to attack. It added a nice extra element of fear to some fights, even more so as there was not a single spell or ability that then worked against everyone in the fight. The possibility f strength drain lead to focusing down on the shadows and bought the other antagonists a bit longer in combat.

I think that as an ambush they can be terrifying. I do like the idea of a trap that turns out the lights. With a high level party it will depend on AC a lot. They are not that good at hitting so if you have given out magic armour then it can make them more reasonable.

A fun one along this line of thought is to put the little guys in sealed clay pots. Then put those pots on shelves. Then fill the room with those shelves. Then send your PC's into the room.

At night.

Then have a single basic commoner with a helmet on open the door.

Fun times. My players now have a deep seated fear of earthenware containers.

[Chronos]

Nhorianscum, I'm not following your line of thought. What's the relevance of the jars, or of the helmet?

[Nhorianscum]

Nhorianscum, I'm not following your line of thought. What's the relevance of the jars, or of the helmet?

Clay pots on shelves obey the laws of gravity. Then they are no longer clay pots with an inside and an outside.

The commoner statblock in a helmet is just there to scream, loudly, once.

We just need one to break and the nature of panicy PC's (who were trying to sneak around) gaurentees this. Fighting a shadow in a room of breakable objects (that also contain shadows) in the dark will do the rest.

[Envoy]

I would like to add that they are amorphous, giving them the ability to hide in like armor or something. Just an idea for dangerous objects that aren’t mimics.

[Fable Wright]

1. Does your group have a fifth-level Cleric?
2a. If Yes, the answer is "Use all you like, they're kinda a joke". Spirit Guardians vaporizes them, and Destroy Undead annihilates them in an instant.
2b. If No, then they are terrifying abominations. Unless the party has an Evoker willing to blow their load of fireballs *right now* then people are probably going to die.